Disgusting final chapter to a great American tool.

[lbgradwell]

I think those are from the 80's.

Yup! Here's an ad from 1983:

In the UK we call vise grips mole grips.
I have absolutely no idea why.

Yes, I have a pair of Mole ("Self-Grip Wrench") 10" pliers!

 

[hamburglar]

Here's a thought...how about the Government just stops collecting taxes from manufacturers and big business? It's not like the companies pay those taxes anyway--WE DO! (if you don't believe that, you're nuts. It's easy: if you sold lemonade for 20 cents, and your mom said she wanted 5 cents from every cup you sold, wouldn't you charge your customers 25 cents? Of course you would.)

-Brad

Not a bad idea, I've always wondered why in the heck corporate taxes even existed...in an ideal world large companies always break even with the profits passed to the shareholders (and written off as an expense). On the flip side, you'd have to be extra careful that employee and stockholder benefits are properly accounted for tax-wise, I've never seen how they can get away with not taxing health benefits for employees. It is a form of income after all.

My other problem with a lot of these arguments is the notion that companies are particularly powerful anymore. If anything, a half century ago large firms were *far* more powerful than they are now, most of those cartels have mostly fallen apart as globalization took hold. The closest thing you'll see to oligopoly these days is the national oil companies (Aramco and the like, *not* Chevron).

Back to Vise-Grips....while there's always going to be plenty of older ones on eBay, it just blows me away that hand tool production has moved overseas with such fervor. If you'd asked me 20 years ago what would happen, my guess would have been that you'd see a bunch of highly automated lines (in the US) with less and less labor content. It's funny how things work out.

 

[old salvage]

Yup! Here's an ad from 1983:

Nice.
Still in their package just waiting all these years.

 

[xroad]

If you'd asked me 20 years ago what would happen, my guess would have been that you'd see a bunch of highly automated lines (in the US) with less and less labor content. It's funny how things work out.

Getting off topic ... sorry

In my utopia world, we all be high tech automated machine designers of firmwares, softwares, and mechanical engineering, and electrical engineering designers. The machines will do all our labors. It did not turn out that way. Even my engineering job is being out sourced.

It is all a conspiracy and Bill Gate's fault. The advances of personal PC's allows the out sourcing of jobs that we never think would be outsourced. My sibling's architechural firm sends a huge drawing files to some Singapore architechural firm to have the drawings reviewed. All the low level work is done elsewhere. The "elsewhere company" is up to date with all the lates US building codes and rules and regulations. A friend's law firm send piles of documents for review in some outsouced company that have plenty of low cost people with law degrees that are trained to review US legalese. In the end, the US architechs or lawyers signs off on the documents. Think of all the bicycle and motorcycle messengers that got bumped out of their jobs by first the fax machine, and then emails. Don't get me started with the seamstress and the sewing machines ......

 

[duke5572]

Ode to my Vise Grip 10R:

Somehow this tool ended up in my box when I was installing 12v stuff at my uncle's shop. Great summer job. I think they belonged to a guy named Paul. Paul, if you're still missing them, I'm sorry. I didn't intentionally steal them. You should know that they have been used and abused on a near-constant basis for almost 15 years.

These are the real deal, made in Nebraska about 20 miles from where I grew up.

Really sorry to hear this is how the once-vaunted Vise Grip is going down!

 

[wilbilt]

There are a lot of things I want to say about this, but I am just too damn tired of saying it.

Nothing surprises me anymore.

 

[Stuey]

Rubbermaid also owns Sanford which distributes Expo dry erase markers. Made in USA.

Don't jump to blame rubbermaid - Irwin's likely to blame - their quality has severely degraded in the past two years or so.

 

[SpiderGearsMan]

I blame toyota - the idea that the mediocre is special because of country of origin

 

[cruiser808]

Getting off topic ... sorry

In my utopia world, we all be high tech automated machine designers of firmwares, softwares, and mechanical engineering, and electrical engineering designers. The machines will do all our labors. It did not turn out that way. Even my engineering job is being out sourced.

It is all a conspiracy and Bill Gate's fault. The advances of personal PC's allows the out sourcing of jobs that we never think would be outsourced. My sibling's architechural firm sends a huge drawing files to some Singapore architechural firm to have the drawings reviewed. All the low level work is done elsewhere. The "elsewhere company" is up to date with all the lates US building codes and rules and regulations. A friend's law firm send piles of documents for review in some outsouced company that have plenty of low cost people with law degrees that are trained to review US legalese. In the end, the US architechs or lawyers signs off on the documents. Think of all the bicycle and motorcycle messengers that got bumped out of their jobs by first the fax machine, and then emails. Don't get me started with the seamstress and the sewing machines ......

It's not exactly that easy,at least here in Honolulu. Yes, we get that stuff from Asia and some of the cad work is good, but remember, local jurisditions have local building code amendments and other zoning code restrictions that no outside country or outside design professional can know without a keen experience at the local level. I am in charge of all building permits issued by the City and County of Honolulu and I and my staff bounce a good share of them on their first try because they don't know sh@#t. For example, is Apu going to know from where the shoreline setback on a particular property in Hawaii in measured? I don't think so. His legal guys may make a stab at it, but because the coastline changes, they must certify the location of the shoreline on an annual basis. Failure to do that results in a denial of the permit. Hey Apu, try again, we're Americans here.

 

[cruiser808]

What I'm trying to say is that the housing construction industry is national in scope, but mostly local when it comes to selling the product to the buyers. It's not just the house, but the location, school district, zoning codes and community that sell a property. If you don't believe me, look around your neighborhood and town and decide for yourself. My job, other than building life safety, is to create livable neighborhoods where you can raise your family. No Asian country people are going to do that for you.

 

[Mr. Welsh]

Let's not get started on building codes in the US...what a mess...

 

[xroad]

What's Apu?

 

[jcs_in_ky]

Were the Irwin marked Vise-Grips that are in the stores now (marked made in the USA on the package, not on the tool from what I can see) actually made in Nebraska or are they imported?

 

[HacksawsGarage]

I've never seen how they can get away with not taxing health benefits for employees. It is a form of income after all.

no its not. its the employer taking care of its workers. tradition stuff here, dating back to the times of serfs and the occasional benevolant king.
heath care is in the interest of the employer. unless of course the junk he makes is made over seas where the labor force is replaceable daily.
healthy workers equals a healthy product. its operating costs.

or would you rather have the feds impose national goverment addimistered health care?

 

[lbgradwell]

1943

 

[Coach James]

Actually companies began offering health benefits to get around wage controls during WWII. They couldn't offer higher wages so they offered health benefits. The government never had the nerve to tax them.

Coach

 

[NSXSOON]

Epstein's still has US made Vise Grips for a fair price

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I just ordered several 3 piece sets of US made Vise Grips from Harry Epstein's. All I could find locally where the "new" imported ones. I already have several but thought it was time to grab some good home grown tools to give as Christmas presents.

At $7 per plier it's a good deal ($21.50 for the 3 piece set).

http://www.harryepstein.com/Irwin.html

 

[old salvage]

Is awsome to look at that humble little factory and think of all the wonderfull tools that came out.
Thanks for posting that Ibgradewell

 

[lbgradwell]

Is awsome to look at that humble little factory and think of all the wonderfull tools that came out.

My thoughts exactly. Just imagine all those tools handcrafted in such a modest little shop that made the Vise-Grip name known worldwide...

Just too cool.

 

[eschoendorff]

Is awsome to look at that humble little factory and think of all the wonderfull tools that came out.
Thanks for posting that Ibgradewell

what he said

 

[hamburglar]

no its not. its the employer taking care of its workers. tradition stuff here, dating back to the times of serfs and the occasional benevolant king.
heath care is in the interest of the employer. unless of course the junk he makes is made over seas where the labor force is replaceable daily.
healthy workers equals a healthy product. its operating costs.

or would you rather have the feds impose national goverment addimistered health care?

Of course it's income. If a company paid you in oranges or shiny rocks the IRS would still want it's cut...somehow health insurance (partly due to the history of wage controls 3/4 of a century ago) escaped that definition. If you don't receive health care from an employer, often it comes from post tax dollars.

As far as national government administered health care, we're already probably 1/3 of the way there. If you add together the poor, the elderly, the disabled, the military, and all levels of government employees, you end up with a lot of people.

Typically, the strongest proponents for a 'free market' in health insurance are on Medicare. It's a funny thing. I admit we've ended up with a system that probably suits most people. They are either wards of the government or they are wards of a company. Vanishingly few people actually are their own bosses anymore.

 

[AlphaGarage]

Here's a thought...how about the Government just stops collecting taxes from manufacturers and big business? It's not like the companies pay those taxes anyway--WE DO! (if you don't believe that, you're nuts. It's easy: if you sold lemonade for 20 cents, and your mom said she wanted 5 cents from every cup you sold, wouldn't you charge your customers 25 cents? Of course you would.)

This country needs to start doing whatever it can to entice companies to stay here and manufacture, and tariffs or penalties isn't the answer.

The second thing that needs to happen is companies need to stop being forced to pay high school drop outs $37.00 an hour to sweep the floor or feed raw material into a machine. My father interviewed at Budweiser in the early '70s, and they had four guys feeding can lids into two machines. Mind you, they loaded them in hundreds at a time, so there was a lot of down time between loads. Four guys, all reading books, when one could have done the job. Fast forward 25 years (1996), and I was working my way through college at a James River printing plant that made cereal boxes for General Mills, with Teamster labor. The guy in charge of the printing press on 3rd shift was illiterate. No lie...couldn't read, couldn't write. And because he was illiterate, JR had to pay a second union guy to fill out the clip board for him a couple times an hour to verifying all the settings on the machine were correct.

The American consumer pays for that. We demand the cheapest prices, and business demands a profit (because THAT is what business is in the business of doing...making a profit. NOT providing jobs, NOT providing tax dollars, NOT providing an environment to make the world a better place, challenge social norms or make political statements). When consumers demand cheaper prices, and business looks around and says "I can build it over there for pennies on the dollar of what it costs over here, due to lower wages and lower cost of doing business (property tax, imbedded taxes, etc)," then of course they go over seas.

Unskilled labor doesn't deserve to make the same money as nurses, teachers, truck drivers, mechanics, accountants, secretaries or any other work that requires more training than an instructional video, or a guy showing you once how to do it.

Looks like this is another one. And it looks like I'll saunter over to the Feed Store and buy out their dusty stock of Vise Grips.

-Brad

Well put. Calls for the government to step in and regulate free trade are bad ideas. Calls for the government to fix pretty much anything should be suspect.

Global trade and economics are her now, they will not, and probably should not, abate. No doubt they will continue to grow.

I like how America was, but to expect things to remain unchanged is infantile thinking. Can you tell me whey an American should expect to get paid 10x more and live 10x times better than a peasent growing up in China or India if they both have similar educatins and productivity? Just by accident of birthplace one deserves an TD TV and gets fat 3 supersized meals while the other likes in a ciderblack shack and eats just enough to avoid starvation?

Sure, there are probably some government scams that give imports an uperhand, but those things have always happened, as often as not with Washington's blessings. They probably even out in the long run.

I think the problem lies in thinking that it's all a zero sum equation. There's enough to go around, and a rising tide does lift all ships. But only if everyone's on board.

Here in Los Angels 50% of the kids do not graduate from high school! I can't recall the exact numbers, but China ratio of engineering graduates to law graduates is so far greater than ours that it's shocking.

Today there's talk of on of the Detroit big three going under. I see tha as a major problem. But the fact is that they have no one to blame but themselves. Don't blame us ocnsumers, don't blame Washington, don't blame Toyota et all, blame the boardroom and the unions. People got lazy and arrogant.

That Chinese Vice grip is not eternally cheap, in a few years the quality and performance will no doubt be superior to the last pair that was cranked out in Nebraska, count on it. The question is will any of us be able to afford them, or will some newly minted millionaires from New Delhi snap 'em all up?

 

[hamburglar]

Can you tell me whey an American should expect to get paid 10x more and live 10x times better than a peasent growing up in China or India if they both have similar educatins...

Well....when you put it that way....

 

[SpiderGearsMan]

mechanics -skilled profession with slavelike wages

 

[jay50]

Is awsome to look at that humble little factory and think of all the wonderfull tools that came out.
Thanks for posting that Ibgradewell

I wonder what type of business resides at the old shop location today? My guess would be either a McDonalds or Wallymart store....

 

[old salvage]

Or in a great ironic twist it will be bulldozed and a drug store put in its place.

 

[wilbilt]

Well....when you put it that way....

"peasents" need "educatins" everywhere.

 

[v8garage]

Were the Irwin marked Vise-Grips that are in the stores now (marked made in the USA on the package, not on the tool from what I can see) actually made in Nebraska or are they imported?

I was wondering the same thing. I have some Irwin made Vice-Grips that are stamped Made In USA on the handle and some that are not.

 

[jcs_in_ky]

The Vice-Grips that my local Lowes has don't have any country of origin stamped on them and the package says made in the USA of Global Components. I wonder how much of them was made here, probably not much?

 

[tatra]

probably the packaging and the marketing strategy................

 

[jcs_in_ky]

I just got back from a local hardware store here that never sells much. They had some Vise-Grips in the original packaging, they of course say Made In The USA and have the Peterson logo on them. Then they had a couple pairs in Irwin packages from when they first took over Vise-Grip. They still say made in the USA on the tool. They had one pair of the new ones like Lowes has. They say made in the USA with global components on the package, here is no made in the USA marking on the tool. The quality of all three seemed to be about the same. One thing I noticed on the newest made one is that the adjustment knob is made so that you can put an allen wrench in the end of it and it's marked with the size it takes. The last one is probably made overseas and just assembled here but who knows for sure.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Sad news there, nothing to add, everyone already said it.

 

[lbgradwell]

Some follow-up articles...

http://journalstar.com/articles/2008/09/03/news/business/doc48be9f5d68146877416499.txt

http://journalstar.com/articles/2008/09/03/news/business/doc48be9b16b1d19111212715.txt

http://journalstar.com/articles/2008/09/03/news/local/doc48bf17d105603239817236.txt

 

[Industrial Concepts]

Its a typical story of mergers and acquisitions.
Peterson Manufacturing produced and sold Vise Grips for years and years. In the 1980's, I believe, the Peterson family formed American Tool Co. and added Quik Grip bar clamps, Chesco allen wrenches and Uni Bit drill bits to the family. The family then sold out to Irwin about 15 years ago or so and Irwin in turn was gobbled up by Newell Rubbermaid. The clamps, bits, etc were made in a plant about 15 miles down the road in Beatrice NE for a number of years until Newell closed that down about 5 years ago. Beatrice may be familiar to some of you as they have about 4 factories that make lawn mowers there. Husqvarna/Dixon, ExMark, Yazoo/Kees and I think one other are all made down there.

Is Store Kraft Mfg. still there? Is the Wall still in business in Beatrice?

 

[Underdog]

Building up My collection of Peterson Vise-Grips one tool at a time, now I have a pair of needle nose ones.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=110287431198&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=001

 

[SpiderGearsMan]

we should have a protest .....

 

[SocketDeviler]

I had this thread in mind when I picked this up today at a flea market for $10.00.

 

[Frank Elson]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FOUR-PIECE-GE...photoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

this is for sale on UK Ebay.
The company buys closeouts, bankrupt stock etc. So they could be quite old stock from somewhere.
It's close enough for me to call in.
So what do I look for? Should they have Made in USA stamped on them?
Obviously I donlt want to buy them if they are outsourced ****.

 

[jcs_in_ky]

If they were the original ViseGrips they'd say they were made by Petersen. The auction says they are Irwin. They still could be the made in the USA ViseGrips because Irwin still continued to make them here for several years and from what I can tell the only difference with those is that they say Irwin on them instead of Petersen, they still say made in the USA. The latest Irwins that I've seen in the store now say made in the USA from global components on the package and they dropped the made in the USA from the tool.

 

[Frank Elson]

Cheers for that. I'll bob over one day this week read the package and the tool.
If it says global components I'll give them a miss.