Dishwasher wiring- Hardwire vs plug?

[Itsjustdirt]

I've read, I've spoke with the pro's, still have questions. Any advice is appreciated.

1. Better to hardwire (with box behind DW, metal faceplate and whip) or place a GFCI outlet under sink and plug in?

2. If hardwiring, will it need a disconnect to be legal? If so, how does that work? I initially though a GFCI breaker at the panel would be enough but now I'm wondering if this setup would also need another disconnect?

I wonder how much performance is lost on higher amperage units when plugged in vs hardwired or if its even worth worrying about?

 

[rlitman]

... higher amperage units...

What's a higher amperage DW? Every year they use less and less power.

 

[sparky 1971]

Nowadays they are supposed to have a disconnect and the easiest way is to put a receptacle under the sink and plug it in. I finally did that to my dishwasher last May when I was installing a new unit. I put the cord on mine more for ease rather than to be up to code because there ain't no GFCI for it. I was just sick of laying on the floor trying to connect the romex.

 

[sparky 1971]

What's a higher amperage DW? Every year they use less and less power.

Along with turning into bigger and bigger pieces of junk.

 

[Junkdrawer Dog]

Given the limited lifespan of most DW and GD these days, I appreciate the convenience of a plug and receptacle.

 

[yatg]

I was just sick of laying on the floor trying to connect the romex.

And the last guy didn't leave any slack and you have to stretch it tight to make the connection.

 

[sparky 1971]

And the last guy didn't leave any slack and you have to stretch it tight to make the connection.

No, I was the last guy so there was plenty of slack. I've changed the dishwasher three times in 11 years. For some reason, hardwiring a dishwasher puts me in the most unnatural position ever.

 

[larry4406]

New construction guy here.

We are required to have the dishwasher on a gfi.

We are required to have an accessible disconnect for the dishwasher that does not require tools (ie can’t unscrew toe kick panel, unscrew junction box housing, etc).

The solution in my neck of the woods is to provide a gfi outlet in the base cabinet of the sink then use corded plug on the dishwasher.

We been doing it this way now 5-6 years?

 

[nadogail]

Nothing is more convenient than plugging your Garbage Disposal and Dishwasher into their own dedicated receptacles.

 

[engineer2]

Our village requires a hardwired dishwasher, but they are on an older book. I hated pulling the dishwasher when it was hardwired. I put a "While In Use" weatherproof cover with an outlet inside the sink cabinet for the DW and disposal. Overkill, but under the sink can become a wet area if something leaks. Have had that happen twice. Dedicated GFCI is at the countertop.

 

[Norcal]

I prefer cord & plug connected, simpler and then a breaker lock out is not required. The appliance manufacturers got GFCI requirements added because their products were catching fire, instead of fixing the problem which would affect their bottom line & get the stockholders upset. A blank face GFCI above the counter backsplash will satisfy requirements for it being accessible at a lower cost then a GFCI circuit breaker.

A note, a GFI is never required for a dishwasher, that is only required for WYE services of 1000 amperes & greater with over a 150 volts to ground, and costs thousands of dollars, a GFCI is required for new dishwasher installations. Different products and different uses, nomenclature does matter.

 

[rancherbill]

....The appliance manufacturers got GFCI requirements added because their products were catching fire, instead of fixing the problem which would affect their bottom line & get the stockholders upset.

Manufacturers do not write codes. They are written based on investigating deaths, fires etc. The Dishwashers pass UL safety codes but sh!t happens.

It has nothing to do with profitability - IT'S SAFETY.

 

[Norcal]

Manufacturers do not write codes. They are written based on investigating deaths, fires etc. The Dishwashers pass UL safety codes but sh!t happens.

It has nothing to do with profitability - IT'S SAFETY.

No they need to fix the problem, the membrain controls have failure problems & they don't want to fix the problem. It is ONLY a money issue.

 

[rancherbill]

No they need to fix the problem, the membrain controls have failure problems & they don't want to fix the problem. It is ONLY a money issue.

A membrane problem would not ever be covered by the electrical code as it is low voltage. There may or may not be a reliability issue or may be a cost issue, but my comment was addressing GFCI receptacles not control panels.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Nowadays they are supposed to have a disconnect and the easiest way is to put a receptacle under the sink and plug it in. I finally did that to my dishwasher last May when I was installing a new unit. I put the cord on mine more for ease rather than to be up to code because there ain't no GFCI for it. I was just sick of laying on the floor trying to connect the romex.

I did the same when I replaced my garbage disposer a couple of years ago.

 

[billconner]

Manufacturers do not write codes. They are written based on investigating deaths, fires etc. The Dishwashers pass UL safety codes but sh!t happens.

It has nothing to do with profitability - IT'S SAFETY.

Sorry, but I've been active in code and standards development for 35 years, and commercial for profit business do have significant input to the codes and standards that regulate the built environment. The making of aws and sausage is not always pretty.

 

[sparky 1971]

Manufacturers do not write codes. They are written based on investigating deaths, fires etc. The Dishwashers pass UL safety codes but sh!t happens.

It has nothing to do with profitability - IT'S SAFETY.

Don't think for a second that manufacturers of all things don't have input and money isn't involved. If it were truly about safety, all of the locations where GFCI protection is required now would have required it years ago. The same thing with AFCI protection. Every code cycle the required locations are expanded upon. It won't be too long before every circuit has some sort of CI on the end of it, and the electrical manufacturers will invent something else in the name of profi....safety.

 

[reader2580]

A lot of the codes are based on things that have actually happened in older houses. AFCI are supposed to protect against something like a screw or nail hitting the hot wire and maybe breaking it, but not shorting to neutral or ground. Something like that should not happen in a modern house wired to code.

A modern house wired fully to current code, but skipping the AFCIs would almost certainly be just fine and not catch on fire. So much of the stuff in the code is to prevent issues that should never happen in a house properly wired to modern code. A house built in the early 1900s with knob and tube and hacked on over the years had an electrical fire so now we have to add all these devices to prevent a fire that should never happen in a properly wired house.

If old houses are burning down due to electrical faults why are they grandfathered in? Those houses are the ones that should have AFCIs and the other stuff to prevent fires.

 

[billconner]

An NFPA research project some years ago showed clearly the maintance is a much bigger factor in safety than the wiring method. Sure a new house confirming to code may ba safe, but that same house not maintained for 5 or 10 years is a more likely candidate for an electrical fire than well maintained 100 year old knob and tube. Obviously, strong correlation between maintenance and the economic status of the inhabitants.

I'm much more bothered by the impact of the homebuilders on the safety in residential building codes than I am by the electrical manufactures on electrical codes.

 

[reader2580]

An NFPA research project some years ago showed clearly the maintance is a much bigger factor in safety than the wiring method. Sure a new house confirming to code may ba safe, but that same house not maintained for 5 or 10 years is a more likely candidate for an electrical fire than well maintained 100 year old knob and tube. Obviously, strong correlation between maintenance and the economic status of the inhabitants.

What maintenance is supposed to be done on an electrical system?

 

[billconner]

Damaged devices, overloading, friction tape splices, other non-compliant alterations.

 

[rancherbill]

Don't think for a second that manufacturers of all things don't have input and money isn't involved.

The process is the safety inspectors detect or see a repetitive problem. The Manufacturers may or may not be told, but they sure find out at the safety meetings in the industry. We never hear of these meeting. The Mfrs. get their R and D department looking for solutions. The manufacturer invents a solution and then test it. GFCI were approved and every code they were required in more and more locations after they had truly demonstrated their safety and efficiency.

 

[billconner]

I believe if you look at the proposals for changes to codes and standards - and anyone can submit a proposal - more come from the commercial interests (manufactures, sales, contractors, etc.) than any other segment.

 

[engineer2]

What maintenance is supposed to be done on an electrical system?

GFCI's says "test monthly", but who does that? The average homeowner won't do anything until something fails. All-in-all modern electrical systems are pretty reliable. But stuff does wear out and break...
I've had light switches, dimmers, and GFCI's go bad, outlets that break when someone rips the plug out sideways. Had one old outlet where the back plastic part crumbled apart, corrosion inside EMT from condensation. I'm sure many have found old TW wire with the insulation crumbling away. And Federal Pacific breakers.

 

[sparky 1971]

The process is the safety inspectors detect or see a repetitive problem. The Manufacturers may or may not be told, but they sure find out at the safety meetings in the industry. We never hear of these meeting. The Mfrs. get their R and D department looking for solutions. The manufacturer invents a solution and then test it. GFCI were approved and every code they were required in more and more locations after they had truly demonstrated their safety and efficiency.

Nah, it's about money more than it is safety. In 2016 I was taking an update class for the 2017 code. In that class, we were told what the GFCI requirements were probably going be for the 2020 code. If it were about saving lives, those requirements would have been put in place earlier. "They" add this garbage a little at a time because of sticker shock due to the added cost. Use AFCI's for example since they haven't been around as long and I've been an electrician the entire time we've had to deal with them. It started out as 120 volt bedroom outlets. Want a baseboard heater or window AC unit? install a 240 volt unit. Problem solved, no AFCI required. Maybe 240 volt appliances don't arc. Then AFCI's became required in habitable rooms. Dining rooms, living rooms, dens. etc. needed AFCI protection. Then all finished rooms needed them, that way, kitchens would be included. Except for bathrooms because the manufactures know that the pieces of **** won't hold a hair dryer. If a room isn't finished, or it's a sump pump, furnace, or a garage are there no potential for arcs? Those are places where one could go quite a while without noticing the breaker is tripped so those are left out, so far. On top of that, since it's all about safety and saving lives, those places must not arc, ever.

I have no problem with GFCI protection being required within 6' of a sink and outside. I even have those in my own house. I don't live there any longer, but in 2006 I built a house. The State of Iowa didn't have an inspection system in place where I built (that came in 2007). That house had 30' of kitchen counter top, minus the range and sink so about 25' of actual counter surface plus an island. There were 11 counter top receptacles and the furthest from the sink was 14' away measured around the wall. Even though it was "code", I decided the only place I needed to put GFCI's was on each side of the sink, one in each bath, and outside. None in the garage or unfinished basement. I didn't install any AFCI's either, I think they were only supposed to be in the bedrooms then anyway, but I wasn't going to pay for them.

 

[Jim greengo]

Manufacturers do not write codes. They are written based on investigating deaths, fires etc. The Dishwashers pass UL safety codes but sh!t happens.

It has nothing to do with profitability - IT'S SAFETY.

Manufacturers have friends in many places.

 

[Jim greengo]

What maintenance is supposed to be done on an electrical system?

Replace bad outlets/switches as needed would be a good start.

 

[volpster31]

i just remodeled my kitchen and i hard wired my d/w..ive been working on them for 25 years and thats what ive seen most...to me,you can just hit the breaker to kill it and as long as you have slack on the wire,pulling it out is a breeze...a plug is fine but i wouldnt run a receptacle under the sink for just that.if theres one already there then sure

 

[billconner]

If I have to put a box in for the dishwasher, why not put it under the sink? Run cord through same hole as drain line. I split the duplex for dw and gd.

 

[reader2580]

Replace bad outlets/switches as needed would be a good start.

One post suggested a new house would need electrical maintenance at five to ten years. The switches and receptacles would have to be **** if they need replaced at five to ten years.

I did major rewiring of my house as soon as I bought the house in 2014. I used switches and receptacles that were several steps above the cheapest and none of them need replacement almost seven years later. The only electrical issue my house has is a need to ground the cable TV service where it comes into the house.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Manufacturers do not write codes. They are written based on investigating deaths, fires etc. The Dishwashers pass UL safety codes but sh!t happens.

It has nothing to do with profitability - IT'S SAFETY.

Ummm what is a UL safety code?

Never heard that one before... lol

Also an appliance is not required to be UL anything.

 

[Jim greengo]

One post suggested a new house would need electrical maintenance at five to ten years. The switches and receptacles would have to be **** if they need replaced at five to ten years.

I did major rewiring of my house as soon as I bought the house in 2014. I used switches and receptacles that were several steps above the cheapest and none of them need replacement almost seven years later. The only electrical issue my house has is a need to ground the cable TV service where it comes into the house.

Builders tend to use cheap junk,home owners pulling cords out sideways doesnt help matters any.

 

[rancherbill]

Ummm what is a UL safety code?

Well everything I see is UL listed. To use the UL mark it must pass their code.

 

[rancherbill]

.....do have significant input to the codes...

Input is way different than writing codes.

 

[rancherbill]

Manufacturers have friends in many places.

..and there are many other conspiracies.

 

[rancherbill]

Nah, it's about money more than it is safety.

What a terrible view of the world.

There are many reasons to stage a roll out of new standards. They were probably really busy doing important safety things, and forgot to tell you all the details.

 

[sparky 1971]

What a terrible view of the world.

There are many reasons to stage a roll out of new standards. They were probably really busy doing important safety things, and forgot to tell you all the details.

The biggest reason is more profit than from the last code cycle. You can believe whatever you want, but there actually are some of us on here that deal with this **** day in and day out and have so for a number of years. (28 in my case). We have seen the evolution of the GFCI and the AFCI, and things might be getting a little safer because people are getting dumber, but they are getting more expensive exponentially compared to the lives that are supposedly saved. They can't hammer us with everything at once, that would be too obvious. But add them in a little at a time, here and there, and before too long, they are everywhere. Why did they wait until 2020 to require GFCI protection for 250 volt rated receptacles in the same places that 120 volt GFCI's are required, along with air conditioners? The answer is money, more of it to be specific.

 

[sparky 1971]

Well everything I see is UL listed. To use the UL mark it must pass their code.

Why don't you post some photos of the UL listing in your appliances? I checked my dishwasher, refrigerator, washer, dryer, and freezer and came up with nothing.

Input is way different than writing codes.

Input that involves money changing hands behind closed doors has a lot to do with writing codes.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Well everything I see is UL listed. To use the UL mark it must pass their code.

but they dont write codes. and NEC code doesnt require a UL listing. it requires listing by an NRTL and there are many, UL being one of them

 

[billconner]

Input is way different than writing codes.

Having been a participant in the process for a long time, not really. I can point to sections of the UBC and LSC that I wrote to get words for and shepparded through the process. I can also point to similar sections by manufactures and contractors and other special interests. Anyone can participate, submitting proposals and comments, speaking in hearings, and holding membership or seats on committees that ultimately vote on changes. It's really a kind of wonderful, democratic process.