distance from GFCI to outlet

[trainer]

I'm running a power line from a cabin to a lake to power a water pump.

The plan is to have the line switched in the cabin, buried 14/2 wire (with ground) to a weather proof receptacle on a post at the edge of the water.

It's approximately 120' of wire from the panel inside the cabin to the outlet.

If I use a Ground fault breaker in the panel, is this too long of a run for it to see a fault at the other end, or should I use a ground fault outlet at the lake end?

It's an off-grid cabin, generator powered.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

No not too long for GFCI but i would be concerned about the load on the end.

What do you plan on using this for?

When you say 14/2, are you referring to Romex or UF-b?

 

[sberry]

Use 12.

 

[trainer]

It's for a 1/6 hp submersible pump, so it draws maybe 5 amps. romex run in a poly pipe to protect it. It pumps water up to a storage tank.

We had been using a 16 g. extension cord with no problems,

 

[Shiftless]

With 5 amps flowing through your old 16 ga. extension cord you had about a 4% voltage drop. I would be more concerned with the momentary starting surge which is higher. As sberry said, as long as you are digging and pulling cable, you might as well go with 12 ga.

Remember that underground conduit is considered a wet location so like wylie said, you have to use UF grade “Romex”.

 

[sberry]

If its for dedicated equipment the 14 is fine. Its just a habit for some of us to use 12.

 

[trainer]

The entire camp is powered by a 3000w 120 volt generator , so there's not really enough power available to justify bigger line.

I'm also going to put a dpst switch inside the cabin so that the line is dead except when the generator is on and we are filling the tank. The dual.pole switch is probably overkill but there's always the possibility that someone could try to adapt the power cord for a different generator and get the hot and neutrals mixed.

 

[rande]

There may not be enough power now to justify the bigger line but what happens when the generator needs replaced? Or you get a good deal on a bigger generator? Or you want to plug in something else? etc. You don't want to need to upgrade the line then.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

I've seen pumps not start on long runs of 16ga extension cords. my advice is always upsize the wire for motors. it's a buy once, cry once, kinda thing.

 

[sberry]

As a practical matter,,, he has been using 16 and now 14, cant help but work as good or better.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

It's for a 1/6 hp submersible pump, so it draws maybe 5 amps. romex run in a poly pipe to protect it. It pumps water up to a storage tank.

We had been using a 16 g. extension cord with no problems,

Romex aka NM-b is not permitted nor rated for use outdoors or underground, regardless of conduit use.

Use UF-b instead.

The entire camp is powered by a 3000w 120 volt generator, so there's not really enough power available to justify bigger line.

I'm also going to put a dpst switch inside the cabin so that the line is dead except when the generator is on and we are filling the tank. The dual pole switch is probably overkill but there's always the possibility that someone could try to adapt the power cord for a different generator and get the hot and neutrals mixed.

Its not about there being enough power. Its about limiting voltage drop to keep the motor from prematurely burning up.

With that long of a run, you will have considerable voltage drop, which will cause higher amperage in the windings...

Lower amperage is better...

I dont understand your reasoning for switching the neutral...

 

[sberry]

A little voltage drop here isnt the end of civilization and puppies probably wont die. I know its hard to believe but a guy can zing a board off with a circ saw on 100 ft of 16. He won't save 25 cents of power or wear and tear a year. It's been working from 16 and a 14 is probably 2x as good in this respect.
Even with welders, difference at 20/23A on 50 ft of 12 vs 14 is 3 or 4 . 3 or 4 loss on 12 and 7 or 8 on 14 which left it at 115v. Operators can't really notice. Little pinch in adjustment vs right at the panel with the smaller wire if a guy is compentant enough and looking for it.
At 5 run A at 125 ft no one would ever know.
On top of this it sounds very intermittent, not 24 hours and dozens of starts a day.

 

[trainer]

To put things into perspective, it's a $50 submersible pump that fills a holding tank in a summer cabin that gets used about 30 nights a year. It doesn't make sense to spend an extra $200 on wire just to be sure.

The buried water line and electrical replaces a garden hose and extension cord.
I had a guy doing some other excavating work and had him bury the lines while he was there.

I don't forsee getting a larger generator, in fact I downsized from a 7500 watt unit to save on fuel.


The reason for the dpst switch is because there is the remote possibility that someone could try to use a different generator and replace the current 20a twist lock with a different plug and mix up the hot and neutral.
That situation should pop the gfci, but I already have the switch on hand so it can't hurt.

 

[sberry]

Never know,,, you may want to build a machine shop there,,, ha

 

[u3b3rg33k]

i wouldn't expect a GFCI to always trip if it's wired wrong. if they mix up the neutral and ground, yes. not the neutral and hot.

 

[mike93lx]

Definitely 2ga MHF and a subpanel. No other way

If the wire in in the pipe already, go with it. If it isn't, then pull thwn or uf-b instead of romex

 

[AntonLargiader]

If you are running power to the water's edge, you should use a GFCI breaker.