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DIY Concrete Prepping Discussion.....

premierguy

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May 24, 2008
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"I know that the lack of prep is the first line of defense when there is a problem, but there are enough people on this board who follow the directions, and then some, on prep, but still have problems".

If you are using a good product, how much prep is truly necessary?
 
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SC-Eric

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This is the age old question isn't it? Do I REALLY have to do all of that work to have a structure that lasts? I think it's like anything else in life... the more effort you put into the foundation (substrate prep) the longer the structure is likely to last.

We've never tested any product that had a higher bondstrength than our BondTite 1101. But, adhesion and general longevity of a coating system has more variables then just adhesion. Will BondTite 1101 stick to an unprepared floor? Well, we know it has. So then, why wouldn't we just tell everyone they don't have to prepare the surface for coating? I mean, holy smokes... if you cut out all of that work why would ANYONE buy anything else? We'd have the market cornered. In fact, why hasn't anyone else thought of this?

Understanding the answers to those questions starts with an understanding of concrete. For starters... Concrete isn't always concrete. In other words, not all concrete is the same formulation or chemistry. And, you never know what you are going to deal with. Was there a 'job site chemist' playing with Calcium in the mix? Did they install a vapor barrier? What ratio of water was used? What is the hydration ratio? There are a ton of variables.

Then, we would need to have a good understanding of laitenance. I'm not going to go into great detail here because this is longer than I'd like already. Maybe someone else will step in for that part. Anyway, it's basically the hard layer of minerals, salts, and sulfates at the surface of the concrete that you remove before coating. So, since that is on the top, that is what you would be trying to stick to. Unfortunately, just because something has good surface hardness doesn't mean it has good cohesive strength with itself. So, while a coating could have good adhesion to the laitenance layer of the concrete, that layer could begin to come off underneath the coating and make it look like the coating delaminated.

Recently, we had an applicator call me and say, "Eric, I've finally found something that BondTite 1101 won't stick to." First, I called him a liar, said some things about his mom, and told him that he would probably be struck by lightning any moment... lol. He said that BondTite 1101 would not stick to fresh hard troweled concrete. Of course, I said... "Are you sure?". To make a long story short, he said he was able to scrape a spill off of an adjacent new (unpreped) section of floor with a shovel. So, I asked him to go look at the back of the BondTite 1101 that came up. Guess What? It had concrete on the entire back side! So, while it had good adhesion to the concrete laitenance layer... that layer did not have good cohesive strength.

I guess what it all boils down to is... who are you? I'm the kind of guy who wants to do a job once and never again. It's not worth it to me to save a little work now that could cost me BIG TIME in the future. The other consideration is what is your expectation of the coating life? Lower end products require less prep than higher end products because they aren't going to last that long anyway. In other words, house trailers require less of a foundation because their life expectancy is short. In contrast, a skyscraper that is expected to last for a really really long time has a foundation that is dug into the ground several floors.

I think that there are alot better ways to save time than skimping on the preparation of concrete for coating. For instance, you could have saved 5 minutes if you avoided reading this post! :lol_hitti
 
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premierguy

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Most of the successful coatings in garages were applied within homes no more than 40 years old…. More porous substrates being thoroughly saturated with oils, not-withstanding (plastic additives) that were common in pre 1960 cement mixing would make adhesion issues more difficult today than without the restructuring phase… Thus making both Grinding and Acid etching the necessary measure of preparation.

There aren’t 1,000 factors to consider when preparing a garage floor …why? Because Chemists have already giving you a concrete floor based on better quality materials over the past 40 –50 years.

Successful Home Applications today have climbed dramatically… but I think the problem with most DIY projects is the inability to choose good coating products at prices suiting their needs….
 
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premierguy

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May 24, 2008
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"the more effort you put into the foundation (substrate prep) the longer the structure is likely to last."


"Concrete isn't always concrete. In other words, not all concrete is the same formulation or chemistry. And, you never know what you are going to deal with. Was there a 'job site chemist' playing with Calcium in the mix? Did they install a vapor barrier? What ratio of water was used? What is the hydration ratio? There are a ton of variables."


"Then, we would need to have a good understanding of laitenance."


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Fortunately, most cement contractors pouring concrete never want to repeat a job twice….

The “white chalky substance” known as laitenance, or alkali (pushing up and down the pores within a concrete structure due to additional moisture from washing, rain, etc…) is a blessing if you are able to detect its release from within the concrete at any stage.

The laitenance areas (L), are extremely high in ph levels… and should be treated before moving onward… Typically, areas that have cracked and contain high levels of (L) are a -finger print sign- of the cement contractor’s abilities in mixing procedures…. High amounts of chalking (L) within a crack tell us that the inner portion of that wall has been deteriorating at a faster pace…. We can safely assume a 1/16th crack heavily laden with (L) needs to be hand grinded (while dry) at high speeds to create vibration waves to loosen the sidewall deterioration. On larger cracks the vibration from grinding at high speeds can cause that crack to reveal up to 20 % or more deterioration within the walls of the crack.

Concrete dust is unhealthy to inhale, causing scarring of the lung tissues as well as harmful to our Eco-System when it is dumped without lessening its ph values to 7 before dumping. We can safely assume that all concrete poured within the last 100 years is high in ph or the most harmful components have been entering the Eco-Structure for some time…

While it is possible you may notice high amounts of white chalky substance on new concrete pours after setting takes place…. It is very possible sodium hardeners may have been added to the mixture to enhance drying time to avoid weather related issues during a concrete pour (usually added due to rainy or colder seasons). This type of concrete is much harder, being more susceptible to cracking where freeze thaws occur… expansion joints are a must!


How can I prepare my Garage Floor while being conscientious to towards my health and the Environment?

There are good vacuums that will remove high percents of dust from grinding. Duct tape around the attachment areas of a vacuum and placed around the housing area of a hand grinder to create more suction to the floor will help with the vac process…

A Shop Vac has the ability to pick up dust particles quite well…. It can also be enhanced to lessen the amount of (exhaust dust) by placing (1 or 2) sheets of old linen as a dust collection barrier before snapping the lid on for lengthier grinding periods….

There are better “Home Solutions” which I’ll demonstrate next….
 
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