DIY Drywall Questions

[thammel]

I'm about to start the drywall part of the job - will do the 9' x 19' mudroom first, then the garage.

I've never done a large drywall project so here are the questions for you experts!:

1) Glue or not to glue? What are the pros/cons?
2) Length of screws? Preference on coarse/fine thread? (I do have a drywall screw gun)
3) Recommended lift type or manufacturer? What should I look for in a lift? The garage has 12' ceiling so I know I want a 12' lift.
4) preference on tape - regular, perforated or mesh with adhesive? I've used the mesh for many patch jobs and it seems to last a long time.

I do have an assortment of mud knives up to 10 or 12".

Any and all other tips are welcome!

Thanks!
Tom

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

thammel,

Try checking with some local drywall installers. I am having my MIL's house redone and for what I could buy the drywall and mud for, they furnished all materials, hung and finished it. This was for a 1200 SF house and the total bill was $3100.

With the econmy the way it is, the folks are very thankful to have a job and will bend over backwards to help. I still have my job (for now) and try to help out the others in our area when possible by hiring out the jobs that I am not fond of (drywall and paint).

They will also have some specialty tools that you do not want to buy that makes life easier down the road (neat corner tools and sanders that are powered by a shop vac that do not leave a mess behind).

 

[busted knuckle]

No glue. Use screws usually twice the length of the dry wall thickness. I have used mesh tape and paper tape and found that the mesh cracks over time, so IMO use the paper. As far as the lift others can chime in on this since I don't and won't have one in my current garage.

 

[sammerdog]

just a thought -

If this is your first attempt at drywall, do the garage first and then the mudroom.

That way you're cutting your teeth in a spot where your walls need to be finished good, but not perfect..... After you get the garage done, you'll have a little experience under your belt and your second job (mudroom) will come out even better. It'll keep the Mrs happy.

No glue, no nails, 1 1/2" drywall screws, fiberglas tape on tapered seams, paper tape on **** seams, metal corner bead for outside corners, and paper with metal inserts on internal corners.

 

[sharpshooter]

I vote tape... it seems like it takes less mud, also go with the screws ...

 

[thammel]

Hi Guys,

Thanks!

On the lift - I should have made myself clear - I meant a "drywall lift" to help hoisting drywall up!

Actually, maybe my logic is backwards, but I'm thinking of hiring out for the huge garage drywall job (32'x28 with 32x12' second floor and 12' ceilings). But I'm planning on doing the smaller mudroom myself as this is what needs to get done now to get the final inspection.

Then I can take my time with all kinds of wiring additions and changes in the garage.

So why do people ever use glue with drywall - none of you use it?

Tom

 

[thammel]

One question I forgot:

How do you guys deal with elec boxes and ceiling light boxes?

Do you measure and precut or install loosely (not screwed close) and the cut out with drywall saw or rotozip? I have rotozip but have concern re messing up boxes or wires with it. Precut seems a good way to go.

Thanks,
Tom

 

[rieferman]

hey tom, I'm a relative novice, but just finished my drywall work, so here's my tips from one non-pro to another

- 1 1/2 inch screws
- screw in to just dimple the paper
- rent a drywall lift, it's the best $30 you'll spend.
- for boxes, I dry fit the piece, and give it a little tap against the box. this marks the box on the back side of the sheet, then you can just poke through with your drywall saw and cut it out. I'm sure there's other methods, but this resulted in zero miss-cuts for me.


- mudding:
4 inch knife for tape step (I thought paper tape was great to work with).. slather some on there, whatever it takes.. then come back with the knife and even it out a little.. put the tape on, hold it with your finger to get it started, with some pressure, drag knife across tape at about 45 degree angle, squeezing out the excess. At the end of a seam, I'd take just the little tiniest amount of mud and skim over it real quick one last time. Doesn't need to look good yet. Less is more.

wait a day. knock the crumbles off with your knife. now, with 6 inch blade, get some mud on there, and then come back over it to feather, remove excess etc. Still doesn't need to look great, and still, LESS is MORE.

wait a day. same as previous step, but with wide knife, at least 10 inches. This was the easiest coat for me. Still, less is more (else you'll be sanding for ages) and you're better off going over an area at most twice. After that, it's not getting better, just give it an extra coat later if you really messed it up.

sanding
- I barely sanded at all. If you use as little mud as possible while still getting good coverage, a wet sponge will take care of most of it. I sanded for about 15 minutes total.


edit: actually, with the above methods, my nice joints (taper to taper.. rather than **** joints) are invisible now that I've painted. Pro quality for sure. For **** joints, I found in some instances that the final coat was more easily applied with multiple passed going the direction opposite of the seam instead of trying to mud straight down the seam like I did everywhere else. It really turned out fine in the end, but had I known how much harder the **** joints would be, I would have taken far more care in making sure all seams were taper > taper edge


hope it helps, pros, correct me if I'm way off (although it's all taken from books/pro advice etc.)

 

[KMR Construction]

-1 1/4" scews
-mesh tape
-roto zip for box's
-first 2 coats with Durabond 45, last coat with premix joint compound. (I use a trowel to put it on)

 

[marty_p]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-1 1/4" coarse screws
-mesh tape in tapers, and paper tape on butts and inside corners
-metal bead on outside edges
-Rotozip traveling along the OUTSIDE of all elec. boxes (plates will cover fine)
-ditto on Durabond 45
-AND ALWAYS hang the ceiling first so the wall can support the bottom edge -- and you'll avoid cracks later

 

[thammel]

Marty - please be specific re how to do the rotozip. Put the sheet up without screws close to the box. Then what? How do you locate the edge of the box? do you set the rotozip for maybe 5/8" bit protrusion for 1/2" drywall?

Thanks,
Tom

 

[Justanoldguy]

So why do people ever use glue with drywall - none of you use it?

Tom

I'm over here in New Zealand.
Been building for 40+ years.
Have ALWAYS glued and screwed drywall.

Not sure why you guys over there don't do it..

.

 

[checkthisout]

Marty - please be specific re how to do the rotozip. Put the sheet up without screws close to the box. Then what? How do you locate the edge of the box? do you set the rotozip for maybe 5/8" bit protrusion for 1/2" drywall?

Thanks,
Tom

You will measure the approximate centerline and shape of your box and mark it your drywall. Set the gate on your roto-zip to the proper depth which would be enough so that the entire guide point is poking out of the sheet of drywall. (be sure to use guide-point bits). Push the drywall up against the box with enough pressure to hold it against it but not so much pressure that it will crack the drywall towards the end of your cut.

Plunge the roto-zip into the approximate center of the where the box is located. Work your way outwards until you hit the inside edge of the box. When you reach it, lift the roto-zip up enough to go over the lip of the box and then replunge. From there simply follow the countour of the outside of the box by keeping side pressure on the roto-zip. Going in one direction you will find that the bit rotation actually pulls the roto-zip into the box which makes it really easy.

After you are done cutting the hole lower the drywall down and clean out any paper and dust and then install.

I bet there are some videos on Youtube showing exactly how to do it.

I highly reccomend you use corner bead, not tape. Use the mud-on type. This makes it waaaaaaaayyyyyy easier for the do-it-yourselfer not to mention the strength is upteen thousands time better. Home Depot has whatever you need. I reccomend rounded corners just because they look and feel 5000 times better than squared-off ones. Chamfer-Bead makes a nice finish for skylights and wallboxes.

If you make any errors or holes patch them with the quick-setting catalyst mud. It seems to have a much higher strength and hardness over the regular air-dry stuff.

Oh, and if you can, rent taping tools, corner tools and finish boxes.

Gravy!

 

[mikester]

X2 on the course screws. I think the fine screws are used on metal studs.

 

[tcianci]

Lots of good info here...especially the durabond, use 20 on your first coat and 2nd, 45 on your finish and if you develop a good working pace, you can get all the mud on it in one day. 1 1/4 coarse thread screws are fine for 1/2 inch board. With the mud,like Reifer said, less is more, you don't want to just end up sanding it all off again. As far as the corner beads, the rounded ones look kinda cool except on vertical corners where you would be installing a baseboard or crown moulding. Maybe they actually work well with vinyl cove base? Don't know for sure.
You don't really need a jack for such a small room, make a deadman about 2 inches shorter than your ceiling height and then screw a cleat to the studs about 2 inches down from your strapping on the far wall. Lift the board onto the cleat and then stuff the deadman under it at your end, it leaves your hands free to screw the sheet in place. If you are going to use the roto zip, don't draw the sheets up too hard till you cut the holes. The instructions for marking your boxes and setting up the zip posted above are correct, just remember to run the tool around your cutout in a counter clockwise direction, that keeps the bit climbing in toward the fixture youre trying to trace.

 

[marty_p]

2ND RE: DIY Drywall Questions

Tom:

Congrats to our GJ colleague 'checkthisout' for explaining the Rotozipping boxes process better than I ever could. And I assure you, you will only be nervous with the process the first time you do it. After that, you'll only get better at it each time you poke 'em!

I learned about the process by observing some pros, and then learned the process by practicing with a scrap of drywall against a box. After the third one, you'll be an old pro!

Also, I know two methods to find -- and accurately mark -- an electrical box:

1. CHEAP: Find the center of a box by rocking a one-foot stiff ruler against the wall and moving it around until you find the teeter-totter spot.

2. *****: Grab the Mrs' $15 tube of lipstick, outline the front perimeter of the box, set the drywall into position, remove the drywall, and voila!!!

-Marty

 

[checkthisout]

I'm over here in New Zealand.
Been building for 40+ years.
Have ALWAYS glued and screwed drywall.

Not sure why you guys over there don't do it..

.

Put glue on drywall and screw it up to the ceiling. Take the screws out and yank on the drywall.

Now take a piece and just install it with screws. Do same thing.

Back in the 70's when we still used nails, glue was also used for whatever reason but since screws through the drywall create a far superior connection, there is no reason for glue.

It's messy and adds costs with no benefit.

 

[hidollartoys]

In the area I live in glue is used to reduce the quanity of screws (1 1/4 to 1/5/8 course). I have never bought this but this is what the installers think especially if they are finishing. I dont believe that glue is ultimately required if a sufficient quanity of screws are used. I would use it on tall walls (9 ft or taller). No glue on ceilings(never did understand this thinking relative to the walls).
Roto-Zip is ok but generates a significant extra quanity of dust. I would only use paper tape. Just over 20 years of construction and remodeling experience.

 

[cat06]

We do custom houses, we always glue and screw. It helps prevent call backs for "screw popping", it doesn't happen very often with screws but for the little extra cost and hassle it's worth it to not get call backs and keep customers happy. If it's your own house / garage your the only one you have to please

 

[thammel]

I am amazed at the disparity of opinions on the glue issue! My house (built in 2000) definitely has glue on the wallboard (but of course, also nails). The glue is a pain to remove on any projects where I have to remove a section and patch. It leaves high spots on the studs which I then have to chisel off.

All the comments re rotozip make sense except this....My wiring is all in place as well as all the switches and receptacles. How in heck can I use my rotozip now without doing a lot of de-wiring??? It just doesn't seem practical.

Tom

 

[Justanoldguy]

It's messy and adds costs with no benefit.

Well all I can say is you guys must do things way different to us down under..

Glue is definitely a major asset in walls and ceilings.

As far as messy? Good application technique eliminates that.

 

[independentrider]

the screws depend on what you are screwing into. wood - coarse, metal studs - fine thread. no need for glue. make sure you set the depth on your drywall gun so it will recess the screw without ripping the paper. if you rip the paper that screw really isnt doing anything. put another next to it. if the screw head doesnt totally countersink fix it or remove it right away. this will help you at mud time so you wont be constantly fixing screw heads. hope this helped. oh ya dont forget a good t-square and if your snapping a chalk line never use red chalk because it will always bleed through the paint. screw the edges about every 8 inches and in the field about every 12 inches. when you screw the edges not to close to the edge or it will bulge out and not allow the next sheet to fit snug. I like to just put a couple to hold the edge down untill I get the next sheet up then screw up along the edges.

 

[independentrider]

We do custom houses, we always glue and screw. It helps prevent call backs for "screw popping", it doesn't happen very often with screws but for the little extra cost and hassle it's worth it to not get call backs and keep customers happy. If it's your own house / garage your the only one you have to please

I'm not calling you out on your work, but if everything is squared away and the screw doesnt rip the paper the screw should never pop. if you are going around a curved wall the sheetrock can be wetted with sponges, both sides until it allows you to bend it. then put the screws in but do not countersink them until the rock dries completely. the rock when dry will hold the shape on its own.

 

[independentrider]

I'm not trying to be a know it all, but I went through a 4 year carpenters apprentice school. I'm not just talking from my ****. hope this helps guys

 

[StingRay]

I can see glue on an interior wall but in colder climates how would one glue down to a poly vapor barrier? Vapor barrier is used in alot of areas of North America and screws would be the only option.

 

[dipper]

I use 1-5/8" screws.
All outside corners I use metal corner bead and I install the corner bead with 1-5/8" drywall nails (I have always found it easier to install and finish the corner when the bead is installed with nails rather than screws.

As far as mudding, I usually use the premixed regular setting compound. I take my time and keep the applications thin so they require less sanding.
The inside corners I will do one side at a time with regular taping knife. I could never get it to finish nicely on both sides with the corner knife.

Patience and practice makes perfect when it comes to drywall.

and plenty of beer too.

 

[GHOSTDANCER]

 

[cat06]

I'm not calling you out on your work, but if everything is squared away and the screw doesnt rip the paper the screw should never pop. if you are going around a curved wall the sheetrock can be wetted with sponges, both sides until it allows you to bend it. then put the screws in but do not countersink them until the rock dries completely. the rock when dry will hold the shape on its own.

Thats ok everyone has opinions, But in 35 years of construction I've never had to go redo my work and yes I've seen it 10, 15, 20 years later, BUT I have had to redo other drywall professionals work that did not use glue.

To each his own, do what works for you!

 

[bop_pa]

Well my best advice to a new guy is to put the mud on smooth. Dont worry if it is not perfect, that is what sanding is for. Expect to put on several coats. With each coat you should use a little larger knife to apply it. Also practice slightly bending the knife as you are applying the mud to feather the edge.

Other than that, the best money I ever spent was on renting a drywall sander. You'll have to ask around as they are not that common around here, but for the $150 I sanded my entire basement in 4hours. I have plenty of drywall experience, but will never truely be an expert, but with time and patience anyone can do drywall. I would not hire it out unless you have plenty of money. It is quite easy, it is just a little time consuming. Be conscious of your cuts and make sure the tapered edge of the drywall lines up with other tapered edges. In the event you need to cut an edge, make sure it lands on a corner or to another cut edge of another drywall sheet (rather than a tapered edge IE difference in height)

 

[dreamingmuscle]

http://www.drywallschool.com/videos.htm
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