DIY Gone Wrong, floor recovery

[STIBuilder]

Just about to move into a new house, and want to coat the garage floor. Its 20x20 and was previously coated with what we believe a Rustolium product. The owner did a poor job of prepping the floor and the floor started flaking off in areas. I had the whole floor pressure washed and that seems to have removed all the sections that were flaking up. I did not notice any water beading up so I do not believe it's got any oil on it but ill degrease it just in case. One thing that concerns me is that in the front of the garage we found what looked like mold, but what I believe is left over acid possibly when they tried to re clean the floor in the areas it was pealing the worst. I have talked to Epoxy Coat and that seems like the route I will take but I am also on the fence of doing some type of commercial tile. You can see the acid in the pictures.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Acid or efflorescence?
Acid that is used to etch concrete is typically neutralized quickly by the very alkaline slab.

 

[STIBuilder]

After looking it up it looks a lot like efflorescence. The only reason i thought it was acid was I found two bags of it in the garage in a corner, and he talked about cleaning the floor at one point.

 

[thegarageguy]

need to diamond grind, perform a moisture test and coat with your epoxy system of choice

 

[regguy1]

Looks like a lot of work, this is a rescue job......

 

[STIBuilder]

Just to update we have been in the house about a week now, and its rained quite a bit (Washington) but we have yet to see anymore instances of what we thought was efflorescence, im starting to think this may have been more acid reactions. I have noticed that the rain does like to come under the door and keep the first few inches of the slab damp, but a new door seal should fix that.

Finished painting the walls last night.

Atleast that turned out nice.

 

[Displaced Hokie]

The walls look very nice. Good luck on the floor, I'm sure it will be fine.

 

[JimVonBaden]

Looks great!

I used VCT on mine, but I doubt it will see a lot of abuse since my work is mostly on Motorcycles. The car will be parked in there sometimes though.

VCT goes down easy, and is pretty tough.

Jim

 

[STIBuilder]

Yeah Jim VCT has been pretty heavy on my mind, but I do wonder how it will hold up to the type of work i do in the garage. At times i can be pretty mean to a floor. Im very tempted to just grind it and do a grey stain if I can find it and then just seal the living **** out of it! Then i can touch up the top coat if I mess it up.

 

[JimVonBaden]

Stain isn't bad, but paint is not a good idea. VCT is decent, but can be damaged, though fixing it is easy too. Many have done Porcelain, which is very tough, and can be had cheap enough, maybe $2 a sq ft if you shop around and do it yourself.

Jim

 

[admranger]

What about a Race Deck type flooring system?

My floor epoxy is coming up so I'm starting to look into this vs. grinding, priming, etc., etc. My largest concern is critter habitat (in my case, giving scorpions a hiding place).

 

[STIBuilder]

Yeah I feel like im backed into a corner, all i want is a uniform finish, but with this old epoxy lifting I have to grind to get get back to square one. I found some VCT for 29cents a tile in black that really got me thinking, dark, so it wouldnt show stains!

 

[paranoid56]

and with dark you can see those stainless bolts you drop much easier

 

[STIBuilder]

Had contractor come out yesterday to give me a price on grinding and sealing. 650$ to make this issue go away seems like a deal. Considering it was going to cost me 276$ to rent the walk behind unit for the weekend and my time.

 

[mtm68]

You are also in the same spot (rainy WA) that I am.... I was going to do tile, but worried about wife-y falling, race deck, worried about moisture under tiles.... Thinking epoxy and crossed fingers is it....

 

[thegarageguy]

its rained quite a bit (Washington) but we have yet to see anymore instances of what we thought was efflorescence

There is a big misconception that you actually have to see water on your slab for it to have a moisture issue. This is totally false. It typically comes in of form of gas or vapor. The efflorescence is an obvious sign of a moisture issue but just note, most slabs that have moisture issues don't show this obvious sign.

If in doubt and before you blow a ton of money on products that may fail, take precautionary steps. The cheapest first step is to tape of a few 6x6 plastic sheets. If in 48 hours the slab under the plastic is darker, then you have a moisture issue.

 

[STIBuilder]

Got the floor ground, turned out I think. All the previous coatings have been removed, the finish is a little blotchy and it seems the first part the garage does not dry as well as the rest, but this is also the area that has the horrible efflorescence. So now the question is what do I do with it now?

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Stain and seal with an acrylic sealer.

 

[Russian]

It's been discussed many times, and in my opinion you have a perfect candidate for tile.

 

[STIBuilder]

So just for S&G I put a box fan in the garage last night, and this morning the area that was not dry in the photo dried out on the surface atleast.

 

[thegarageguy]

Stain and seal with an acrylic sealer.

I wouldn't recommend acrylics in a garage environment. One snowfall and road salt will destroy that sealer

 

[STIBuilder]

Well wanted to follow up and keep everyone up to date with the progress. Seems we cant shake winter around here and the rain just wont stop keeping the ground saturated.
In the mean time I decided to take some additional steps after having the floor diamond ground. I picked up a 5 gal bucket of Ashford Formula Densifier/sealer, a couple of Calcium Coride tests, and some NSP 120 Epoxy flooring

http://ashfordformula.com/
http://www.nsp-specialty.com/prodcase.html#120hb

The results on the moisture tests were 9.8lbs and 10.7 lbs this was with it raining outside 85% of the time over the 63 hour test period. I can only hope this is the worst case those numbers are pretty high.

The plan is to apply the Ashford formula to the floor and let it work its magic for a week before comming back to apply the NSF product. Prior to that ill be filling in the crack between the outside slab and the inside slab to help keep moisture from getting into the garage slab some.

 

[thegarageguy]

Densifier will not cure your moisture issue and the epoxy you are choosing can be applied over a damp surface but will delaminate with a moisture reading like yours. Please re read the product data sheets. If you move forward, your floors will fail and your time and money will be wasted.

 

[STIBuilder]

Once the densifier, goes down and can do its thing before anything else goes over the floor I am taking another moisture test to see what if any progress has been made with the moisture readings. The manufacturer of Ashford formula claims it can hold back 10lbs to under 5lbs once it’s cured.

Garageguy do you have any product recommendations or just its not going to work?

 

[thegarageguy]

Remember, at the end of the day, the rep is a salesman. No where on Ashfords site or tech data sheet make such claims. But just for sake of argument, its true....5% is still too high for epoxy. Unfortunately, I don't know a DIY fix, but there are some professionals with knowledge and experience to install the correct system and provide a permanent solution.

 

[STIBuilder]

Remember, at the end of the day, the rep is a salesman. No where on Ashfords site or tech data sheet make such claims. But just for sake of argument, its true....5% is still too high for epoxy. Unfortunately, I don't know a DIY fix, but there are some professionals with knowledge and experience to install the correct system and provide a permanent solution.

Any direction on pro's that can do the job? Even if you dont think its a DIY some of us have ability to make it happen anyways.

 

[thegarageguy]

Not saying that you can't....just don't know who sells that type of product outside the trade. maybe the manufacturer's on this site have a negative side vapor barrier you can use.

 

[Mmfh]

This may just be blowing hot air, but are your gutters taking the water away from the house and not saturating the ground around the house and garage?

I'm just South of you and I'm sure you know we are having the wettest season as of record this year. I'm wondering if your gutters and downspouts are doing their job?

Just thinking out loud.

Mm

 

[STIBuilder]

Yeah its possible the downspouts are not doing their jobs, ill check today! Its an odd setup the houses have a zero offset proporty line on one side and a huge retainng wall in the back the back yard is so we have standing water in places. That is another issue I need to address later this summer if we get one. As for some products I have looked at Aquafin SG2, looks to be able to handle the job, just not sure about broadcasting the sand and what that will do to the epoxy top coat finish.

 

[Kevin54]

STI....to help with you door seal problem, consider having a line cut into the concrete under the seal. The saw won't go all the way to the corner but you can make a 90 degree cut to it on each side or just cut as far as you can to the left and right. The scored line will help to keep water from wicking back.

 

[STIBuilder]

Well while the floor thing is being figured out I was able to get a sweet deal on some new cabinets from Home Depot. 77$ each

 

[Jnoone43]

That's a deal.... We're they damaged ?

 

[Hogan646]

Just to update we have been in the house about a week now, and its rained quite a bit (Washington) but we have yet to see anymore instances of what we thought was efflorescence, im starting to think this may have been more acid reactions. I have noticed that the rain does like to come under the door and keep the first few inches of the slab damp, but a new door seal should fix that.

Finished painting the walls last night.

Atleast that turned out nice.

Great color combination.

 

[STIBuilder]

That's a deal.... We're they damaged ?

Nope Home Depot has a sale on all cabinets 20% off ends today. Ive been checking them out for some time they had them at 99$ but the 77$ price was just the ticket to get me to buy. Its only stock on hand but with so man HD's around im sure you can find as many as you need. I had to buy the display because i needed a 4th so I got it for cheap.

 

[Edger]

Moisture observations

Epoxies that adhere OK to the concrete usually stay there. If there is moisture coming up underneath it can degrade the concrete over a few years just underneath the epoxy probably because of the salts that are wicked up with the water. Then the concrete will fail at the surface and the epoxy will break away with it, but that does not happen in the first year.

What can happen very quickly is that the moisture coming up under the epoxy can spall the epoxy if it is exposed to the heat of the sun. In that case the sun in summer/spring will make the top of the concrete hot which turns the moisture to steam which cannot get out through the epoxy so the steam blows a piece of concrete off the surface.

We used to use Aquron http://www.aquron.com/our-products/concrete-protection-and-waterproofing/aquron-cpt-2000/ to stop the moisture and it worked fine. An alternative is to stop water getting under the slab or wicking through it from the side. The join at the garage door is a major area of wicking as the rainwater hits the front of the garage and sinks down that joint then wicks back into your garage. To stop it you will have to seal off that joint with a joint sealer of some kind.

Water that comes from under the slab is usually caused by pooling water somewhere that seeps under or from a broken drain pipe or from a concrete joint alongside the slab that is exposed to the weather.

I doubt that Aquron will work after using Ashford formula so you probably need to stop water getting to the edges or under your slab.

 

[STIBuilder]

Yeah I decided to take advantage of the nice day here, and just go for it on the epoxy floor. At this point I just stopped caring to much. The expansion crack at the driveway garage slab will be sealed up later this week. Im sure its a source of moisture.

Now I can get back to getting all my tools moved out of the old place and start making progress on my car again. Shop setup will progress this week getting cabinets hung, and new benches built and painted.

 

[STIBuilder]

Crack filled with epoxy filler then put some sand over it.

 

[STIBuilder]

Yeah i put the kits on the worst parts of the slab, thought the worst case would be the best case to deal with.

Start of the cabinets.

 

[STIBuilder]

Cove base and last bit of cabinets went in today.

Anyone have a good line on any good under cabinet LED lighting?

 

[mwe3302]

I take it by your name you drive a subaru STI, just curious what year modle is it if thats what you drive?