DIY Mini Splits

[itneverends]

I look at it like seat belts. I know people who have never worn a seat belt and are still alive. I still wear mine because it improves the odds of me surviving a crash.

I think thats a fair analogy

 

[TxSteve]

I like what a see about the Senville too! It’s just that I don’t want to go down the road of possible problems associated with shipping.

I have 2 Senville 24k units that I installed in the workshop this summer. They came Fedex Freight on a pallet. No issues at all. Easy to install and they've been great! (as Tony would say)

Also - I gave up the warranty and did the install myself. Most warranties don't cover labor, just parts so their value is suspect.

I bought a vacuum pump, gauges, and a flare tool from amazon, pulled a vacuum and let it set for an hour to check for leaks. Nyloc on the flares after shortening the lines. So far so good.

 

[American Locomotive]

I believe Daikin only makes for themselves, Mitsubishi & LG also make their own. But those are Japaneses or Korean companies, Gree, AUX, & Midea are Chinese contract manufacturers.

Most minisplits are now made by 1 of 3 companies....Gree, Midea, or AUX.

Mitsubishi, LG, Fujitsu and Samsung make their own equipment for sure. But even sometimes brand names can't be trusted. Carrier and Panasonic are both rebadged Midea units, for example.

A lot of the more popular "DIY" brands are made by Midea or Gree. Moovair, Senville, Mr. Cool, etc.. all use Midea or Gree as their OEM/ODM.

 

[Jgaz]

I bought a vacuum pump, gauges, and a flare tool from amazon

What type and size flare tool is required when you shortened the lines?

 

[pcmeiners]

"However, after watching many videos and reading countless comments of people not following the “right” way and just purging the lines with refrigerant, I start to question just exactly how critical is the “right” way in terms of long term service"


How many DIY installer are going to admit a minisplit died an early death because they took shortcuts.... very very few. Just like how many "gamblers" had to have a "pro" find leaks, charge them big buck for the service call and gas. We get them on this sub-forum, especially for leaks, all because they took shortcuts.
Personally you do what you want, I have about 15k in very efficient Fujitsu minisplits, installed correctly, which are not going to need a service call or replacement because I took a shortcut. They are also warranted by Fujitsu as I took the time to get the 608.

"Thoughts on the likely hood of getting good service from a unit that was only purged with refrigerant."

My odds, 75% will get good service over the life of the minisplit with just a refrigerant kit. Taking in consideration, those that cut corner will also cut corners in other areas of the install and maintenance. It is like relying on air bags to save your ***, when you won't wear a seat belt.

""But even sometimes brand names can't be trusted. Carrier and Panasonic are both rebadged Midea units,"

Check out Midea's AHRI certificates and extreme efficiency claims. Last I looked, no data in their minisplit certificates to backup glowing efficiency claims.

"It’s an HFC refrigerant that is compatible with the R410a that is commonly used in most diy pre charged units."

How is it used commonly in most pre charged units?

 

[dscheidt]

What type and size flare tool is required when you shortened the lines?

a 45 degree eccentric flare tool. Eccentric means the forcing cone is mounted eccentrically meaning it rolls the flare, which reduces the amount of force needed and keeps it from galling. Lube the tube with nylog. Size depends on your linesets, but most tools are kits that have multiple dies. I have a cheap one from amazon, it produces perfect flares but is fiddly to get set to the right depth. I might buy a better style if were starting again (I've used it on two linesets, and am not likely to do another any time soon.), but maybe not.

 

[dscheidt]

Non pre-charged lines and evaporators have moisture and non refrigerant gas in them. Multiple purges will likely remove sufficient moisture, but no guarantee, and not all of it, and the dryers should remove what left, but what about non compressible nitrogen, especially nitrogen locked behind valves/other components. Pioneer's kit will remove most of the nitrogen and moisture, except those trapped in/behind components, but again no guarantee. Use it if your a gambler.

I agree with this, but I expect an awful lot of these installed in developing places are done with just a brief purge of refrigerant, or nothing at all. The people who make them know this. They're sizing the filter drier appropriately. There may well be substantial variation in practice, too, with some of the lower end brands/oems more tolerant than the Japanese and Korean ones. As you say, a gamble.

 

[itneverends]

How is it used commonly in most pre charged units?

I was trying to say that R410a is a common refrigerant used in theses pre charged mini splits and that R152a is compatible with it. Im
really bad at wording things sometimes.

75% odds sounds like a pretty good bet but what if the rest of the install was perfect and the unit was properly maintained? It just makes me wonder what then would differentiate between the 75% given long service and the 25% not ?

I have two identical 18000btu mini splits to install in my wife’s she shed. I am so tempted to install one per standard procedure and the other only with a flush of refrigerant and let the count down begin. It’s not that big of a deal to me. I did get the Home Depot Hessaire units so I really don’t have much faith in them anyway. If I get 3 years out of them I’ll be happy.

 

[pcmeiners]

"Im really bad at wording things sometimes."

Aren't we all. Yesterday I read a post I wrote a couple years back. Reading it now it is wrong, when I wrote it was correct, my English twisted it.

"but what if the rest of the install was perfect and the unit was properly maintained"

Just my opinion, if everything else is done correctly I would boost the odds to 85, not too bad. The dryers incorporated into mini splits help keep the odds decent.
An example of what could go wrong with just a gas kit..... One of my 5 min splits had a valve stick, partially trapping gas behind it. It took a couple hours of vacuum to get down to sub 400 micron level, and that is after a previous purge. If I used a gas kit, moisture and air gas would have been in the system, dryers would have taken care of the moisture but not the air.

Understand where I am coming from. When I do something I hate having something come bite me in the *** later. Also I am so busy, it so frustrating to have to stop a present project to fix a past project; all my present project are from my home's past owner cutting corners e.g. no bathroom soil stack vents . Then I paid a premium for my 5 minisplits, I have a lot to lose.

"They're sizing the filter drier appropriately"

They are very small in most minisplits.

 

[TxSteve]

What type and size flare tool is required when you shortened the lines?

I bought this one. Super simple and has a 'clutch' so you don't over tighten. It made perfect flares.

Amazon.com

Use nylog but only on both sides of the flare connection, not on the threads.

Amazon.com

 

[Jgaz]

I bought this one. Super simple and has a 'clutch' so you don't over tighten. It made perfect flares.

Amazon.com

Use nylog but only on both sides of the flare connection, not on the threads.

Amazon.com

Thank you

 

[dscheidt]

"They're sizing the filter drier appropriately"

They are very small in most minisplits.

yes, but the only source of moisture is the lineset. The compressor is sealed and filled with refrigerant, the condenser is filled with high pressure nitrogen and sealed at the factory. You release the nitrogen right before you hook the lines up. So only the linesets get exposed to moisture, and unless they've been left out in the rain, the expected amount is pretty small. Again, a gamble, not one I'd take.

I bought this one. Super simple and has a 'clutch' so you don't over tighten. It made perfect flares.

Amazon.com

that's actually the one I have too. Agree on perfect flares, but the clamp and setting stickout are a pain (shared with all the flare tools of this style).

 

[JackOfDiamonds]

yes, but the only source of moisture is the lineset. The compressor is sealed and filled with refrigerant, the condenser is filled with high pressure nitrogen and sealed at the factory. You release the nitrogen right before you hook the lines up. So only the linesets get exposed to moisture, and unless they've been left out in the rain, the expected amount is pretty small. Again, a gamble, not one I'd take.


that's actually the one I have too. Agree on perfect flares, but the clamp and setting stickout are a pain (shared with all the flare tools of this style).

Different units might be different but my pioneer indoor unit was not charged with nitrogen. Well it might have been purged, but it wasn't pressurized. There were just plastic line caps.

Both indoor and outdoor units perform evaporation and condensation functions so it's not strictly correct to use the traditional nomenclature.

 

[pcmeiners]

"Different units might be different but my pioneer indoor unit was not charged with nitrogen. Well it might have been purged, but it wasn't pressurized. There were just plastic line caps."

My indoor unit just had plastic caps no nitrogen, and there is a decent amount of moisture in the lineset and condenser...just think of the moist which is on the outside of a cold glass of water, linesets and condensers combined have a great deal more surface area then a glass of water.

"and setting stickout are a pain (shared with all the flare tools of this style)."

Easy, Make practice flares (with nut on tubing) on some spare tubing, start with a 1/16" showing above the flat die surface, if the nut cannot go over the flare, make the next flare slightly less, make it a bit more if there is too much clearance. Memorize the amount of the tubing sticking out of the die. Once you get it right you will not have an issue again.

 

[dscheidt]

"and setting stickout are a pain (shared with all the flare tools of this style)."

Easy, Make practice flares (with nut on tubing) on some spare tubing, start with a 1/16" showing above the flat die surface, if the nut cannot go over the flare, make the next flare slightly less, make it a bit more if there is too much clearance. Memorize the amount of the tubing sticking out of the die. Once you get it right you will not have an issue again.

I didn't say I couldn't do it, or didn't know how. I said it's a pain. I've used lots of tools like this, to make hundreds of flares, and they all ****. you have to get it right, it can move when you tighten the clamp. I made a go/no-go gauge when I was doing lots of brake lines, working on **** cars in the salt. Then I learned there are vastly superior designs which do not require the operator to set the distance, and just do it as part of the flaring operation.

 

[pcmeiners]

"I didn't say I couldn't do it, or didn't know how. I said it's a pain."

Never meant you couldn't do it, sorry..... you said it was a pain, I stated it was easy for me. I meant I do not give a thought about it, though I use to measure the stickout.

 

[itneverends]

So I started the install on the wife’s she shed and after practicing to get the perfect flares, I’m now about a foot short. I don’t want to move the condenser up any so needless to say I need to get some more copper. Which is the best type of copper to use, L or M? Can either be used? Any difference between the two on how they flare? And can I just solder in by using Stay Bright to get my needed length?
Thanks!

 

[Skellyii]

Daaaamn....is that a two-story she-shed??

 

[itneverends]

Daaaamn....is that a two-story she-shed??

Yes it is. The wife calls it her “she palace” but I refer to it as “the witch house” . Either way it’s going to be the death of me. This project has been going on for two years now… hence my user name.

 

[Skellyii]

OMG!!

My fiancée can NEVER see this.

She will want one too!

 

[pcmeiners]

Either way it’s going to be the death of me.

I just corrected the above, it should be......

Either witch way it’s going to be the death of me.

 

[JackOfDiamonds]

I think there's some trick to soldering HVAC tubing without getting flux inside. Maybe purging it with a certain gas? You might want to look into it. Flares are pretty reliable so you could use flare couplings.

 

[itneverends]

Success! Well, I think - lol. No nitrogen test, no micron gauge but I did pull a vacuum for an hour and my analog gauge stayed at -30 in hg vac for 24 hours.

Then I opened the valves to release the 410a. The first positive pressure on the line set and my gauge read 150psi. At that pressure , there were no bubbles at my four flare unions. Yeah, I know that doesn’t mean a lot when pressures can double that in heat mode but at least it was encouraging not to see bubbles.

Turned the unit on and let it run in cool mode for about an hour . It cooled the upstairs of “the witch house” to 65 degrees- outside was 85degrees…Still no leaks, well no bubbles present.

Turned on heat mode to 82 degrees and no leaks or no bubbles at my four flares.

As far as that gamble goes: well, do I feel lucky?

I absolutely do! One down, one to go .

 

[itneverends]

My luck might be running out- lol. So far unit has been working great. However, I’ve noticed this intermittent gushing sound out at the condenser.

Normal? Not Normal? What’s going on here? Take a listen and tell me what you think:

 

[jshillin]

Most minisplits are now made by 1 of 3 companies....Gree, Midea, or AUX.

I've got experience with Pioneer made by Midea and have it in my garage for last 3 years.
I recently installed a second unit on other end of my garage using a budget, Yitahome made by AUX.

I saw on slickdeals for $421 and took a chance and it works great. Basically throw away units after a few years since its so cheap.

@tunerwithkids

How has the Yitahome working out for you? I just watched your video and it looks like you bought the 220 version? I see they have a 12,000 BTU, 20 SEER, 120V for $446 shipped and I'm considering it for either my garage or 12x20 wood shop. It seems like a no brainer for the price.

 

[dlwilson]

I put in a Senville 36000 BTU system with two air handlers in my garage about three years ago. It has worked flawlessly after a little trouble setting up. Senville tech support was some of the best I've ever used. It was delivered by a truck who dropped it in the end my driveway. I installed it myself, but had the start up done by an AC guy because I wanted the precharged lines shortened. It's on wifi, so 30 minutes before I go out there I turn it on remotely, and it's cool when I start working. I've been really happy with it.

 

[American Locomotive]

My luck might be running out- lol. So far unit has been working great. However, I’ve noticed this intermittent gushing sound out at the condenser.

Normal? Not Normal? What’s going on here? Take a listen and tell me what you think:

Sounds to me like it's low on refrigerant and can't keep a solid column of liquid at the expansion valve.

 

[itneverends]

Sounds to me like it's low on refrigerant and can't keep a solid column of liquid at the expansion valve.

That was kind of my thought too but it quit making that sound.

 

[like2wheel]

I put in a Senville 36000 BTU system with two air handlers in my garage about three years ago. It has worked flawlessly after a little trouble setting up. Senville tech support was some of the best I've ever used. It was delivered by a truck who dropped it in the end my driveway. I installed it myself, but had the start up done by an AC guy because I wanted the precharged lines shortened. It's on wifi, so 30 minutes before I go out there I turn it on remotely, and it's cool when I start working. I've been really happy with it.

Precharged lines?

 

[itneverends]

Finished with this project. Everything is running great but time will tell. Let’s see how long these Home Depot Hessaire units last.

 

[nsula_country]

I hadn't considered looking at hd or Lowe's. Seems like senville units get good reviews so I had been leaning that way. Maybe I'll consider these though since I can walk into the store and buy one.

I have installed many Senville units. Order direct from website. No issues.

CT

 

[nsula_country]

Precharged lines?

NO, Senville has traditional flared copper lines. IMHO, "pre-charged" lines are over-rated.

CT