DIY paver advice needed

[A1an]

Let me start by saying I know this isn't a typical garage topic. I wasn't sure where it would fit best so I posted here since it may relate to garage projects (paver driveways, paver surface off garage, etc). Admins/moderators please move if you see fit.

The wife and I want to start on our backyard. My original plan was to build a deck on the back but since we are going to build a pergola over the entire deck area we decided to go paver instead. I've done pavers before but on a smaller scale. The issue I have right now are the existing concrete pads. I'm trying to do this on the cheap/simple path and would like to avoid busting up the concrete pads if possible.

So my question is this (and I have a photo below to help with visuals). The red box is what I intend on having as my paver porch area. The existing soil is pretty hard yet sandy. If I level out and properly compact the sandy areas so that the bed is even with the concrete pads prior to laying pavers, would I have any possible issues with longevity of the porch down the road? Would I want to put a sand base over the concrete or just lay it right on top (assuming it is level of course)?

 

[R-132 Fan]

It will be hard to maintain the same level over that area as the ground dries out and becomes wet again. Is there any chance you could cut the sandy soil out six or eight inches and put in well compacted road base? If you go with road base, try to have a little bit of slope away from the building to help water drain off through the sand. Be sure to get the metal edging and stake it into place well.
I would put down a layer of sand on the concrete. My neighbors had a large covered area surfaced with pavers by a company that does concrete work comercially for malls and retail centers. They told him the sand was necessary. Sorry, I can't remember the reason they gave him for that. They poured six inches of concrete and then gave it a layer of sand before the pavers went down and it has held up really well.

 

[W_KY]

I'm in agreement here. Take out that sandy soil and put in a good compacted base to work with. Then put sand over top all of it, including the concrete, about an inch or so deep. There are different types of sand and I think its called setting sand. I'd also recommend the edging to hold in the pavers. Once you have the pavers set and the edging down, put silica sand on top and compact that (or at least sweep it in). I think you may have to water it down after that.

This information was gathered/patched together from helping a friend with his patio and some experience with setting some walls. No professional experience here.

 

[RedVise]

A1an, I looked at your pic without looking at your location, and thought, that's a Florida yard !

I like to use 4X4's to raise the paver area a little to raise it to keep your area above the rain. I anchor them with rebar, add and level the sand, add pavers.


Good Luck !

Brian L.

 

[A1an]

Ah yes...typical FL sandy weed yard. We moved into this house in October and are just now getting around to landscaping and whatnot (probably a good thing considering the winter we had in Lutz). I'm almost embarassed to show photos.

Thanks for all the information. Needing 1 inch of sand on top of the concrete may kill the idea of keeping the concrete there. With the sand plus paver the top of the deck may be slightly higher than the sill for the sliding doors. I'm going to double check later today but I am fairly certain I'm S.O.L. It is starting to look like there will be no way around busting up this concrete.

Perhaps having someone pour a deck to the specs I outlined above may be the best economical option. Original pads could dissapear with a thin coat poured on top of everything with maybe some sort of stamped paver finish to it.

 

[ddawg16]

Some good advice above.

The first time we did pavers, I only put down about 2" of sand....within a year, pavers where shifting....and they were 1' sq.....

This time around...dug down about 6"...put down 4" of P-Gravel....then 2" of sand...ran the lawn roller over it a few times.....after 3 years, still flat as the day I installed it.

 

[JCQuick]

Yeah I would not do them over concrete but since its for a patio i use a thin paver on my back area It let me not have to dig down as much and has lasted 6 years so far I'll have to take a pic

 

[JCQuick]

ok heres a few pics my yard it worse so i got you covered on that one.
Also note I cheated on the base and the sand So I'm going to have to deal with it someday soon.

 

[tatra]

around here we use 3/4 down topped off with 2 inches of 1/4 down.....sand tends to wash out..........

 

[JCQuick]

heres my driveway I did theres a long story that goes with this but all in all its not bad. I'm in the process of dealing with the side where they have moved. This of course was done in the std ones

 

[dankicksass]

I've laid more than my share of pavers, thinking about a permeable paver layout for my driveway and parking pad at the garage right now, to replace asphalt. I'm no expert, but what I do know is that it's all in the base you lay down. Going dry right over concrete slab, rain will just push the pavers around. It might not be a lot, but you'll be kicking yourself if you don't get it out of there.

 

[treasureseeker]

You could mix tile and pavers. Cover the concrete in slate and do pavers around it.

 

[A1an]

Good point with tiles/slate on the concrete and pavers surrounding it. Perhaps even the large pad tiled with a step up to a wood deck spanning the rest of the space would look nice. Hmmm...

 

[shoot summ]

Lot's of good advice here.

Water is your enemy on this, do what you can to control drainage. As some have stated, you need to lock in the edges, if not it all moves eventually. Sand over the pad would be fine, it's very common to do it that way. You do need to establish a better base where the dirt is. Consider pouring a concrete edge if possible, also consider sweeping mortar of sorts across the pavers to help fill in any cracks.

 

[dipper]

I am coming to the tail end of a huge project of relaying ~150sqft of pavers and adding about 150sqft more. I had one area of my patio behind the house that was sinking due to the base not being good enough. The new area was dug down about 7" and put about 4" of stone in, compacted by hand and with a plate compactor. I then used stone dust compacted in layers to bring the level up to where I needed it to be. The whole patio will now be pitched way from the house, as it should be.
Since I finished my garage build I have always needed a walkway into the garage so that was done too.

IMHO, a level compacted stone base (4") plus stone dust or sand is a minimum for a paver patio to last. I used some Beast edging and 12" galvanized spikes to retain the edge. Polymeric sand will be swept into the joints when it is all said and done. I am also looking into sealers now that I can apply with a roller to the whole thing to protect from UV and mitigate insects and weeds from infiltrating.


Existing Patio & New section excavated

Pulling up the old section

compacting:

Beast Edging:

New Walkway into Garage:

Patio - Randomly Intermixed Old Gray with New Red pavers

I'm going home today to work on it, hoping the rain holds out. I still have
about 40sqft to lay and then do all the cuts.

 

[A1an]

Dipper....nice work!

 

[Porcupine]

Great job!

I've got some pavers I need to change in the backyard - they were laid on top of a thin layer of gravel, top soil, and in some part, plastic (like vapor barrier almost), that I have to lift and redo.

Great job again - looks like a pro did it

 

[bigdav160]

I think you could mix some portland with the sand, wet it down and lay some pavers over top.

In Florida you don't have the freeze problem like our yankee friends up north.