DIY spray foam insulation?

[DieselPills]

I have a big old wood building. Built before they had 4x8 sheets of anything...there are a lot of cracks and gaps. I'd love to spray the inside walls of the entire thing with foam, but it's far too large to ever do this. I am interested in covering certain areas in about a 1" thick layer of foam. It's more for air sealing the building, keeping bugs out, etc, than for pure R value. I'd also like some sound insulation.

Anyway, calling a "guy" and saying "foam it" is way out of my budget for this. I've been looking at the DIY kits on ebay, like this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Touch-n-Sea...826644?hash=item419e20d754:g:5EgAAOxy4t1Si63r

It's actually not that expensive, slightly less than $1/board foot. In higher quantity, you can get it at about half the price.

Has anybody used a product like this? Is it hard to do it right if you are not a pro? Is it going to be hard to lay down a nice even layer at about 1" thick? Ideally 600 board feet should cover an area 600sq ft 1" deep, but what kind of yield do you get in the real world?

 

[jmlcolorado]

Sub'ed. Interested in real world results too. Except for gaining r value with these DIY kits.

 

[Iroc-Z]

I have not but I know menards sells a diy foam kit.

 

[mikes02ls1]

I would love to DIY spray foam my attic, instead of paying 3,500 to have someone to do it. Scary part is screwing up, but are hard is it to apply it, kind of like spray painting a car. Overlap coverage, and make sure it is fully covered.

 

[James-W]

From reading the link it says the foam expands to about 30 times larger. The link also says that the kit does an area of 600 square feet if you do it 1 inch thick. If you do it thicker than 1 inch, then of course it will do less square footage.

Problem is, I am not sure you can really adjust the spray to keep it at the inch thick level. If you are not able to maintain the 1 inch level, depending on how thick you actually make the foam, it may not cover anywhere near the square footage you think it will which means you will need more kits. I guess what I am getting at is, it will be very difficult to predict how many square foot a kit will cover since it will be dependent on how steady a hand the person doing the spraying has. The actual cost for doing this project yourself MAY turn out to be a lot more than you think it will be.

 

[DieselPills]

Problem is, I am not sure you can really adjust the spray to keep it at the inch thick level. If you are not able to maintain the 1 inch level, depending on how thick you actually make the foam, it may not cover anywhere near the square footage you think it will which means you will need more kits.

Exactly, that's the question, how much waste will there be? It's not hard to remove any excess foam, but of course that just goes in the garbage. Does anybody know specifically how hard it is to control the thickness with DIY products like this? Is the gun "designed" to lay down a certain thickness?

I tried to ask the ebay seller but apparently they are too important to take questions. I'm sure there will be some kind of learning curve, but will I have used up the whole kit before I learn?

 

[DieselPills]

Here's a link to a little more bulk sized kit:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/D-I-Y-Spray...717248?hash=item2a57ec1980:g:kjAAAOSwAL9Uhw1y

There seems to be several different styles/guns available. Different foam weights and fire ratings too. I like the fact that this kit is made up of many individually sealed containers, so the job doesn't have to all be done at once.

 

[James-W]

Exactly, that's the question, how much waste will there be? It's not hard to remove any excess foam, but of course that just goes in the garbage. Does anybody know specifically how hard it is to control the thickness with DIY products like this? Is the gun "designed" to lay down a certain thickness?

I tried to ask the ebay seller but apparently they are too important to take questions. I'm sure there will be some kind of learning curve, but will I have used up the whole kit before I learn?

I have never done it so I can't say for sure, but I suspect it is not real simple to keep it thin unless you are used to doing it. When I see the foam installers doing it on television they make it look really easy. But that's what these guys do all the time and they are very good at it. For us DIY people who are doing it for the first time, I doubt very much that we can keep it down to 1 inch. But it won't really hurt anything if the foam is thicker than 1 inch, it will just cost more to do the job.

 

[popbigguy]

Try this

https://www.sprayfoamkit.com/

 

[SSpanky]

That's open cell. Do your research.
Open cell needs a vapor barrier on both sides and it "can" collect moisture.ive been in buildings with open cell and closed cell, the closed cell buildings feel a lot more "sealed" to me. And you won't need to shave the excess foam off the walls.

 

[Ironhorse74]

Try this

https://www.sprayfoamkit.com/

Neat idea. Did you happen to notice that two 600 sq ft kits were 150.00 cheaper than a 1200 sq ft kit?

Brad

 

[DieselPills]

Try this

https://www.sprayfoamkit.com/

I like that, they claim 1" thick makes a good vapor barrier. Their equipment must be capable of that. That's basically what I want, a spray on vapor barrier/crack filler. SSpanky is right, I probably want closed cell.

I'll have to do some more research about the different types and densities. I'd really like to use something with a good fire and sound rating, but I'm sure it's more expensive...

 

[86turbodsl]

I have a lot of experience with this. I had my whole house sprayed closed cell when i built, and I sprayed 2 600 bdft kits in my basement and attic last summer/fall. I also looked REALLY hard at rolling a DIY heated kit, but the proportioner was just a little more than i wanted to spend, and the barrels i would have had some left over that i wouldn't have been able to sell quickly. So i did the 600 kits. How much material you actually get is very very sensitive to the temp you spray at. Cold temps, less expansion. When i did the basement, i boiled water and poured into a big tub that had the tanks in it. tank temps stayed up around 90-95F for the spray and i did get decent coverage, but i was going more for sealing rather than R-value. In the attic, i used fiberglass insulation over the tanks and a portable heater to heat the tanks up to 100+F. I'd estimate spraying on the cold concrete, i got about a 1/2 inch. you can go back over it or go slower to get it thicker. Was there really 600 bdft? Who knows. Functionally, 600 kits cost about a buck a bdft, and a pro with heated tanks, lines and pro install costs about the same. Would i do it again? MAYBE, if i had the same circumstances. I was spraying ductwork in the attic for leaks and it took me a long time to move loose fill around and spray in sections. It was much more suited for DIY than a pro, because they would have killed me in labor costs.
The foam if it gets on anything, it's essentially permanent. I got some overspray on my glasses, and that never did come off. I left the glasses out in the sunshine for MONTHS trying to get the UV to degrade the foam enough to come off, but it never did.

My advice - as someone who understands this process very well - if you can get a pro to do it at about a $1 a bdft, just pay the pro.

Oh, and if you decide to go DIY, i have a couple of hose kits left over with lots of extra tips, i'll let it go cheap. I built my own 30' hose set rather than pay $$$ for the available 30ft.

 

[purplezr2]

Most of these kits work out to around $1/sqft per inch of thickness on sale. It cost me the same to have some one come spray it. No mess no clean up and no learning curve. Well expensive paying to have it done seems worthwhile.

 

[gregtwojeeps]

Good thread of interest. I have a 1959 ranch home that has NO insulation in the exterior walls. It has the 3/4 " thick plaster
" button" board on the walls which I guess helps on the heat loss .....but not near enough. ..

So if I am reading some of the replies on this thread correctly, my exterior walls could not be filled with foam.... because of the possibility of moisture saturation ?


On edit: I just found this link for foaming empty existing walls. But, also in my search I found a lot of references to problems with DIY foaming existing exterior walls, which I have not looked through yet. Not a simple DIY'er task it seems and pricey no doubt....


https://www.sprayfoamkit.com/videos-a-how-tos/slow-

 

[Voi]

Here are some old threads. I used "froth pak" with the quotes as my key words.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/search.php?searchid=25103243

 

[kj_mustang]

It will depend on your climate and the exterior sheathing as to how thick the closed cell foam has to be to achieve a vapor barrier.

 

[James-W]

Good thread of interest. I have a 1959 ranch home that has NO insulation in the exterior walls. It has the 3/4 " thick plaster
" button" board on the walls which I guess helps on the heat loss .....but not near enough. ..

I am going to mention something just for something to think about over the Winter months. A few years ago I helped a guy on his house, he had a similar situation as you have. His has an older home and there was very little insulation in the walls and ceiling and the electrical wiring wasn't very good either. He had very few outlets, he had a fuse panel rather than breakers, and the windows were in very bad condition.

The guy goes deer hunting with a bunch of guys and he got them to help and one weekend we gutted his whole house and threw everything into a huge dumpster. Actually, it didn't all fit, we had to put some of it on the ground beside the dumpster.

Long story short, he got an electrician and a new circuit breaker panel was installed and all new wiring. He got new windows, new doors, and the walls and ceiling were insulated with fiberglass. Then the drywall people came in and did their thing. Then a finish carpenter took care of the trim.

It cost the guy a lot of money, but in the long term he will come out money ahead. I am not suggesting that you do the same, I am just saying that if you were good at doing drywall, then maybe tearing down the inside walls and insulating may not be such a terrible idea. If you need additional electrical outlets, that would be a good time to put them in.

Again, I am just suggesting that maybe it is something to consider.

 

[Radical540]

Real world experience here.
I had the underside of my roof-deck spray foamed w/ closed cell foam. (recommended by the installer)
The foam I got expands 10:1, and after they were done with the underside or my roof-deck it ended up being 10-12 inches in most sections.
Keep in mind that 1" of spray foam is worth 9 R-value. So you do the math at how well insulated my garage is; probably better than my house!
Some have asked "why don't you saw-off the excess"? Why? That would be like throwing away good R-value insulation. Sure it looks like you've walked into a marshmallow factory when people step into my garage and look up, but they quickly appreciate it when my garage is 70 degrees when it's -10 below outside in the winter. Or when my garage is 67 degrees(using my portable A/C unit) when it's 103 outside in the summer.
This was (so far) thee best investment I've made in the garage!! Next up....ArmorClad epoxy floor coating!
Cheers!

 

[theoldwizard1]

I have a big old wood building. Built before they had 4x8 sheets of anything...there are a lot of cracks and gaps. I'd love to spray the inside walls of the entire thing with foam, but it's far too large to ever do this. I am interested in covering certain areas in about a 1" thick layer of foam.

Cracks/gaps larger than about 1/2" need to be covered. Tar paper ? Tyvek ? Cardboard ?

2" is a more realistic for a light coat.

I would love to DIY spray foam my attic, instead of paying 3,500 to have someone to do it. Scary part is screwing up, ...

The stuff is next to IMPOSSIBLE to remove which means you only have 1 shot at it !

 

[theoldwizard1]

Sure it looks like you've walked into a marshmallow factory when people step into my garage and look up, but they quickly appreciate it when my garage is 70 degrees when it's -10 below outside in the winter. Or when my garage is 67 degrees(using my portable A/C unit) when it's 103 outside in the summer.
This was (so far) thee best investment I've made in the garage!! Next up....ArmorClad epoxy floor coating!
Cheers!

Glad things worked out well for you ! Great FEEDBACK !!!

 

[drewbird91]

I was attempting to do the rim joists in the basement last year but I wanted to "try" out the kit first. I found a smaller froth pak http://www.amazon.com/Froth-Pak-Spray-Foam-Sealant-System/dp/B0018AKMBS/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1447976897&sr=1-1&keywords=Froth-Pak+12+Spray+Foam+Sealant+System for a decent price.

Kit came and I suited up and tried it out. I had no luck getting up in those tight areas, the tip wanted to clog if you stopped. By trying it myself I have decided I will just pay someone to do the rim joists. In the mean time I did rigid foam between the joists where I could get to. But there are spots I couldn't get to.

 

[gregtwojeeps]

I am going to mention something just for something to think about over the Winter months. A few years ago I helped a guy on his house, he had a similar situation as you have. His has an older home and there was very little insulation in the walls and ceiling and the electrical wiring wasn't very good either. He had very few outlets, he had a fuse panel rather than breakers, and the windows were in very bad condition.

The guy goes deer hunting with a bunch of guys and he got them to help and one weekend we gutted his whole house and threw everything into a huge dumpster. Actually, it didn't all fit, we had to put some of it on the ground beside the dumpster.

Long story short, he got an electrician and a new circuit breaker panel was installed and all new wiring. He got new windows, new doors, and the walls and ceiling were insulated with fiberglass. Then the drywall people came in and did their thing. Then a finish carpenter took care of the trim.

It cost the guy a lot of money, but in the long term he will come out money ahead. I am not suggesting that you do the same, I am just saying that if you were good at doing drywall, then maybe tearing down the inside walls and insulating may not be such a terrible idea. If you need additional electrical outlets, that would be a good time to put them in.

Again, I am just suggesting that maybe it is something to consider.

Thanks for the suggestion James, and for most reading it is a very good one. Most younger people with good incomes and that have a longer time to live in their home would certainly benefit from the methods you have suggested...

But.....

Over the passed 20 years I have done a whole lot of what has been suggested here. I did ALL of the work on our passed 4 homes with the help of my wife....

Now 20 years later, my wife and I are both retired and she has emphysema and I have health issues. So there is no way that we could afford financially to do a large remodel or take the risk to our health of living in a house.... while it is being re-modeled.

I was thinking more in the mindset of simply drilling a hole in the exterior walls one per stud space ....and pumping in Styrofoam. Followed with a simple patch and paint on the holes in the old plaster walls.... to minimize the mess.

Since I posted here I have done some on line research and it looks like to pump all of my exterior walls with the FoamGreen kits, it will take around $2K of foam kits. ....

What I have not got settled with in my mind, other than the cost vs payback formula.... is the fact that my exterior walls have no vapor barrier and how would this fact.... affect blown in Styrofoam ? I dunno, so I am still researching. Thanks, Greg

 

[Radical540]

Glad things worked out well for you ! Great FEEDBACK !!!

And in my opinion, after seeing what the installation fellas went through to do this job......It's not worth attempting as a DYI project. The savings is minimal, and hassle is maximum!

Cheers!

 

[James-W]

And in my opinion, after seeing what the installation fellas went through to do this job......It's not worth attempting as a DYI project. The savings is minimal, and hassle is maximum!

Cheers!

I agree. I like to do stuff myself (as much as I am able to do) but there are times when trying to do it myself is just not worth the time nor the effort.

 

[CarBikeGuy70]

Spray foam is a great product but prep and experience with the product is critical. Closed cell foam is the only way to go, no matter what anyone tells you. Before I resided my 1935 cape I removed all the cedar shakes, had every 3rd. course of t&g removed and had closed cell foam installed. Results were fantastic. Not only great insulation but the foam will seal up every little open cavity. No air penetration. The firm that did mine has been in the insulation business for years, most of their foam work in commercial- they had the answer to all of my questions. The foam has a limited range to expand- the installer is key. This process is some what of an art- equipment is critical. Crazy prices are from those that don't work with foam very often. Find the right contractor and you will not be able to beat his price by doing it yourself- too many experts out there but only a few that really know how to price and do job the right way. Watch a good crew working(I did) and you will want them on you project in a heartbeat.

 

[Radical540]

The underside of my roof-deck cost about $1200 for my 700 sq/ft garage (not sure what the actual roof deck square footage is; it's a hip roof, and I'm not good with complex math to figure it out.) I couldn't be happier, it's fulfilled it's purpose above and beyond!!

When anything comes to "longevity", I have a mantra: "I don't need anything to last any longer than I'll be around this planet"
When sales people pitch me something that will "be around for the next 100 yrs.", I don't care. I'm 42......if it last another 30 I'm happy....beyond that Im too old to do any garage work anyway. LOL.

Cheers!

 

[DieselPills]

I was just doing some math. My building is 50x100 and there are a lot of leaks along the eaves. If I averaged a 1/8" gap (it's probably more than that) times 200 feet, that's 25 square feet of open space I could fill if I just foam an area about 6"x100' times 2. That's only 100 board feet in a perfect world! I could do a lot of stuff with a 600ft kit. I guess I need to buy some foam....

It's not something I can really call a guy for because it all needs to be done a little bit at a time. There is a lot of cleaning and prep work in between areas. Will add more areas over time...it would cost many thousands to do it all at once.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I was attempting to do the rim joists in the basement last year ...

A slow and some what laborious process is to cut pieces of 2" foam board to loosely fit in the rim joist pocket. Use a can of spray foam around the piece to seal it in.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I was thinking more in the mindset of simply drilling a hole in the exterior walls one per stud space ....and pumping in Styrofoam.

My daughter did this and her place. It was an almost complete failure. We discovered this a couple of years later when we tore into some drywall on a kitchen remodel.

Blown in fiberglass or cellulose is more effective.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I was just doing some math. My building is 50x100 and there are a lot of leaks along the eaves. If I averaged a 1/8" gap (it's probably more than that) times 200 feet, that's 25 square feet of open space I could fill ...

If you have gaps much larger the foam is going to expand OUTSIDE !

 

[gregtwojeeps]

My daughter did this and her place. It was an almost complete failure. We discovered this a couple of years later when we tore into some drywall on a kitchen remodel.

Blown in fiberglass or cellulose is more effective.

I agree, I wish I could do cellulose in my exterior walls.

 

[DieselPills]

If you have gaps much larger the foam is going to expand OUTSIDE !

Most anything larger than that would be filled with "gap filler" foam in a small can. I've already gone through a few dozen cans. A case of the normal size cans is actually cheaper than the bulk size "pro" foam at Home Depot.