DMM for automotive & residential

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Hey guys. I ordered a fluke 117 but where I ordered it from said it would ship in two weeks. Canceled it. I currently have a tpi 194 and besides for the almost non existent continuity buzzer, it shuts off randomly. I enjoy high quality tools as I'm sure all of you do, so I'm looking for a quality NEW meter under $170. My dream meter is the fluke 88v but that won't be for a while... I want decent resolution and accuracy. Recommendations in 3...2...1... GO

 

[Citation]

I'm going to offer a few suggestions
This Amprobe is an excellent meter. Almost on par with the Fluke 87
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004W2NJLO/?tag=atomicindus08-20
This model is a reskin of a Brymen model. If you look around here many people are fans of Brymen.

This Uni-T clamp meter is also a fan favorite.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00O1Q2HOQ/?tag=atomicindus08-20

It's not as nice to use as the Amprobe when you are using it as a multimeter but it has a DC amp clamp which can be really handy.

For $170 you could have both.

Fluke meters are my default, cost is no object favorite but man it's hard to say cost is that little an object.

BTW, I'm not a big fan of the Fluke 117 since it doesn't have Fluke's touch-hold function (regular "hold" isn't "thouch-hold".

 

[joop1987]

FLUKE 17B+ and Uni-T UT210E

 

[Tallpilot]

Got $500? Fluke 88V. Otherwise Greenlee. They are made in Taiwan and you can pick the features you want. Plan to spend about $100.

 

[humpty]

I am a Fluke fan and have used them for work for 30 years. I am biased I will admit.
That being said I have worked with other maintenance guys that have used Extech and Amprobe, they have never complained about them.

You do pay a premium for the Fluke name and I would argue my "current" 189 is not quite the same quality as my 25 year old 87. But that being said they should and do last you your lifetime. I still have my Mac branded Fluke 23 that I bought in tech school. I would still trust my life with it.

I tried a friends Innova DMM the other day and I liked it, seemed like it was decent for the price. I have an Innova OBDII reader but I didn't realize they made DMMs.

humpty

 

[pstemari]

The Uni-T is okay for automotive use, but using it on line voltage circuits is questionable, particularly in the breaker box (CAT III) and upstream of the primary breaker (CAT IV). It lacks proper (in fact, any) fusing for high energy use, and the thing will turn into a hand grenade if a line surge fries the MOVs in it and you aren't behind a 15-20 amp branch circuit breaker. The current clamp is fine, though.

Search on YouTube for "arc flash" if you want to see what can happen.

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[Rabid Badger]

Right here:

https://www.ruby-electronics.com/store_item/DT-9939_Waterproof_Industrial_Wireless_USB_RMS_Multimeter_with_Capacitance_Frequency_Duty_Cycle

It's identical to the Extech EX540 which sells for over $300.

Still get a UT210e for current measurements.

 

[Citation]

The Uni-T is okay for automotive use, but using it on line voltage circuits is questionable, particularly in the breaker box (CAT III) and upstream of the primary breaker (CAT IV). It lacks proper (in fact, any) fusing for high energy use, and the thing will turn into a hand grenade if a line surge fries the MOVs in it and you aren't behind a 15-20 amp branch circuit breaker. The current clamp is fine, though.

Search on YouTube for "arc flash" if you want to see what can happen.

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I agree the Uni-T safety features aren't as good as the Fluke but they are sufficient for the op's request. Also, they don't have fuses because they don't have a current test range other than the amp clamp which is non-contact

 

[humpty]

I forgot one brand, we used a lot of BK Precision in tech school. I have an BK analog MM for those instances where I need to see a brief blip that you can't see with a DMM.

 

[Rabid Badger]

The Uni-T is okay for automotive use, but using it on line voltage circuits is questionable, particularly in the breaker box (CAT III) and upstream of the primary breaker (CAT IV). It lacks proper (in fact, any) fusing for high energy use, and the thing will turn into a hand grenade if a line surge fries the MOVs in it and you aren't behind a 15-20 amp branch circuit breaker. The current clamp is fine, though.

Search on YouTube for "arc flash" if you want to see what can happen.

Nobody recommended he goes out and climbs a power pole with a UT210e. Also, clamp meters don't need fuses.

 

[Wamsutta]

I'm looking for a quality NEW meter under $170.

My brand new Fluke 77-IV was $170 off eBay. A sweet little number that thing is.

 

[pstemari]

Nobody recommended he goes out and climbs a power pole with a UT210e. Also, clamp meters don't need fuses.

The UniT 210E has probes for voltage and resistance measurements as well as a clamp for current. There are MOVs at the input jacks, but no fuses. You don't need to climb the power pole to get into trouble—as I said, fooling around inside of the breaker box is quite sufficient. MOVs short out when they fail, for example from a voltage surge, and if that happens inside the breaker box you will not be happy.

I have one. It's a perfectly nice little meter for what it is, but but you just have to know what its limitations are and where it is it is safe to use it it. it's not UL-listed, nor does it have any other independent testing lab certification.

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[SuzukiGS750EZ]

I just bought a brand new fluke 77 iv for $145! Tax brought it just shy of $155, free shipping. Thanks for pointing me in that direction!

 

[MattT]

Pretty much anything from a reputable brand with the appropriate CAT rating is good enough for residential.

So how much automotive capability do you need? Just the mA & mV for parasitic draw you mentioned in the other thread or more than that?

 

[Citation]

The UniT 210E has probes for voltage and resistance measurements as well as a clamp for current. There are MOVs at the input jacks, but no fuses. You don't need to climb the power pole to get into trouble—as I said, fooling around inside of the breaker box is quite sufficient. MOVs short out when they fail, for example from a voltage surge, and if that happens inside the breaker box you will not be happy.

I have one. It's a perfectly nice little meter for what it is, but but you just have to know what its limitations are and where it is it is safe to use it it. it's not UL-listed, nor does it have any other independent testing lab certification.

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High impedance inputs don't use fuses. Because the input impedance is on the order of a few megaohms a fuse is unnecessary and not part of the safety design of a well designed meter. Look at the Fluke meters that lack current measurement ranges. They also don't have fuses. That doesn't mean your concerns aren't valid since I have no idea how well Uni-T designed the input protection. In general I look at Uni-T designs as competent but not high end.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Pretty much anything from a reputable brand with the appropriate CAT rating is good enough for residential.

So how much automotive capability do you need? Just the mA & mV for parasitic draw you mentioned in the other thread or more than that?

Nope. Just parasitic draw and resistance check for sensors, which I do check often during diagnosis. I just try to future proof when buying electronics and I'm still learning electrical diagnosis. Now that I'm not in a shop full time it's only for friends.

 

[Rabid Badger]

The UniT 210E has probes for voltage and resistance measurements as well as a clamp for current. There are MOVs at the input jacks, but no fuses. You don't need to climb the power pole to get into trouble—as I said, fooling around inside of the breaker box is quite sufficient. MOVs short out when they fail, for example from a voltage surge, and if that happens inside the breaker box you will not be happy.

Again, clamp meters don't need fuses:

I have one. It's a perfectly nice little meter for what it is, but but you just have to know what its limitations are and where it is it is safe to use it it. it's not UL-listed, nor does it have any other independent testing lab certification.

****. Someone better call Intertek, because Uni-T has been slapping an ETL logo on these.

Good news, your meter is better than you thought!

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

So next I'll ask, why is this uni-t clamp meter suggested so much across the forums?

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Question. Is true RMS something that I will need in a meter? My other meter was...

 

[Rabid Badger]

So next I'll ask, why is this uni-t clamp meter suggested so much across the forums?

Before the UT210E DC clamp meters with mA resolution were expensive and rare. The amount of utility you get for your money is hard to beat.

Question. Is true RMS something that I will need in a meter? My other meter was...

It isn't super critical but these days it's so common there really isn't a good reason to go without it.

One feature I've neglected to mention is a bar graph. This is useful to have on a primary meter as they refresh faster than the numerical display so you can see oscillations that you would otherwise miss.

 

[MattT]

Nope. Just parasitic draw and resistance check for sensors, which I do check often during diagnosis. I just try to future proof when buying electronics and I'm still learning electrical diagnosis. Now that I'm not in a shop full time it's only for friends.

For future proofing Hz, and ideally duty cycle, would be good to have. A fast acting bar graph is also handy. No substitute for a 'scope but better than nothing.

****. Someone better call Intertek, because Uni-T has been slapping an ETL logo on these.

And it appears to be legit. Though it's strange the way they're listing such a wide range of products. The list of trade names at the top is also interesting............

https://ramuk.intertekconnect.com/W...3467a21676314ad18625844e002cf3d5?OpenDocument

 

[pstemari]

Re: DMM for automotive & residential

High impedance inputs don't use fuses.

You may be right about the fuse per se. I've attached some pictures of the inside of my Fluke 87V. You can see the two large fuses for the current inputs, and there's a green MOV on the right hand side with the plus input. Coming up from there, there is a large green resistor-looking device, not sure if that's a regular resistor or a fusible resistor. Fluke says there's some thermal protection for the MOV, but I'm not certain I've found it.

One thing you can see in the pictures is the large number of baffles coming through the circuit board to isolate things and prevent arcs from forming. Not really feeling like taking apart the Uni-T 210E (I've got a broken hand in a cast right now), but the pictures I've seen at the interior of it just have MOVs between the two jacks and no baffles or isolation slots.



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[pstemari]

...****. Someone better call Intertek, because Uni-T has been slapping an ETL logo on these.



Good news, your meter is better than you thought!

I just looked again, and there's no ETL logo that I can find on mine. There's a large CE in on the front and some very fine type that says CAT III 300V, but that's it.

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[Rabid Badger]

You may be right about the fuse per se. I've attached some pictures of the inside of my Fluke 87V. You can see the two large fuses for the current inputs, and there's a green MOV on the right hand side with the plus input. Coming up from there, there is a large green resistor-looking device, not sure if that's a regular resistor or a fusible resistor. Fluke says there's some thermal protection for the MOV, but I'm not certain I've found it.

One thing you can see in the pictures is the large number of baffles coming through the circuit board to isolate things and prevent arcs from forming. Not really feeling like taking apart the Uni-T 210E (I've got a broken hand in a cast right now), but the pictures I've seen at the interior of it just have MOVs between the two jacks and no baffles or isolation slots.

Yep. A CATIII 300V meter and a CATIV 600V meter look very different inside.

I just looked again, and there's no ETL logo that I can find on mine. There's a large CE in on the front and some very fine type that says CAT III 300V, but that's it.

It's shown on the Uni-T website and MattT posted an link to a document from Intertek confirming it:

https://ramuk.intertekconnect.com/W...3467a21676314ad18625844e002cf3d5?OpenDocument

So now that we've established that the input protection is fine, clamp meters don't need fuses and the UT210E is certified by Intertek as a CATIII 300V meter, is there anything else?

 

[MattT]

There's a large CE in on the front and some very fine type that says CAT III 300V, but that's it.

CAT III 300V explains why it doesn't have the internal baffles like an 87V which I'm guessing is 1000V CATIII and 600V CATIV. IIRC the withstand voltages for CATIII are roughly 1kV per 100V of rating. So probably 3kV for the Uni-T and 10kV for the Fluke.

And FWIW CE marking is manufacturer self certified with no independent testing or meaningful enforcement outside europe. Means nothing on a chinese product sold in the States.

 

[Citation]

Re: DMM for automotive & residential

You may be right about the fuse per se. I've attached some pictures of the inside of my Fluke 87V. You can see the two large fuses for the current inputs, and there's a green MOV on the right hand side with the plus input. Coming up from there, there is a large green resistor-looking device, not sure if that's a regular resistor or a fusible resistor. Fluke says there's some thermal protection for the MOV, but I'm not certain I've found it.

One thing you can see in the pictures is the large number of baffles coming through the circuit board to isolate things and prevent arcs from forming. Not really feeling like taking apart the Uni-T 210E (I've got a broken hand in a cast right now), but the pictures I've seen at the interior of it just have MOVs between the two jacks and no baffles or isolation slots.



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Yes, those fuses are for the current inputs only.
On page 48 you can see the fuses in the circuit diagram. The Voltage/Ohm input doesn't have fuses. If you remove your fuses you will find the voltage input works just fine but your current inputs will show as infinite.
If we look at the Fluke 101 doesn't have fuses despite having a CAT III 600V rating.
https://technicalequipmentreviews.blogspot.com/2015/08/is-fluke-101-csa-listed.html

If nothing else Dave Jones can explain it.

 

[Citation]

So next I'll ask, why is this uni-t clamp meter suggested so much across the forums?

Here's a long EEVblog thread on the meter
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/a-look-at-the-uni-t-ut210e/

 

[Fluelikesymptoms]

I had a thread about this just a few weeks ago.

I ended up with the brymen bm869s that I order from tme. I think after shipping I ended up around 240-50 ish. Then another 20 bucks on a case, 270ish.

I like the meter, it is very feature rich, more features than I understand. I have been spending more time learning about electronics and practicing on old stuff and a control board from my fridge. It has every feature your looking for. However, it is a big ole bulky dmm. Haven't had a problem with it yet.

However if I could go back, I would have bought the greenlee dm860a. It is just a rebadge of the brymen, but it comes with a case and lifetime warranty. In the end the brymen costed me as much as the greenlee anyways. Plus should I have any issues, paying for shipping back wont be such a hassle.

I suspect I wont have problems though, as the thing is solid. I've noticed tinkering around with the control board that it seems to be a bit slower/picky on smaller parts like resistors, but that could just be the board itself, or user error.

 

[Rabid Badger]

I had a thread about this just a few weeks ago.

I ended up with the brymen bm869s that I order from tme. I think after shipping I ended up around 240-50 ish. Then another 20 bucks on a case, 270ish.

I like the meter, it is very feature rich, more features than I understand. I have been spending more time learning about electronics and practicing on old stuff and a control board from my fridge. It has every feature your looking for. However, it is a big ole bulky dmm. Haven't had a problem with it yet.

However if I could go back, I would have bought the greenlee dm860a. It is just a rebadge of the brymen, but it comes with a case and lifetime warranty. In the end the brymen costed me as much as the greenlee anyways. Plus should I have any issues, paying for shipping back wont be such a hassle.

I suspect I wont have problems though, as the thing is solid. I've noticed tinkering around with the control board that it seems to be a bit slower/picky on smaller parts like resistors, but that could just be the board itself, or user error.

I'm glad you're liking it so far.

I doubt you'll have any trouble with it. Mine has been bulletproof and there's a guy on YouTube called Joe Smith that has put a couple of those meters through hell and they don't miss a beat. That's why I was comfortable recommending the Brymen vs the Greenlee.

For small components on a board sometimes it helps to have sharper probes so you can pierce the oxide layer on tiny pads without slipping. These are the best you can get:

https://probemaster.com/8000-series-test-leads-only/

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

I ended up getting a fluke 179 and also sent in my tpi 194 for an upgrade on the continuity buzzer and firmware. So now I'll have two meters!