Do Air Chisels Less than .401" Exist?

[winlinmac]

Olafur, I feel that I tried this already, but not to my full potential with caution given to the fender of the car. Since you mentioned it, I'm going to try again.

It looks like the bolt still has usable treads about a nut-full at the end. Put several washers on the bolt but leave enough room for the nut.

Put nut on and tighten it as much as you think it can take. Then use a punch (or bolt) and BFH and drive the bolt out. Tighten the nut as you go..

Ps
Even if you have decent .401 air hammer a BFH will do much more in this situation - even with limited room to swing it.

I have a ball joint separator (the one that looks like a fork), I can wedge in their to relieve as much stress as possible (while the balljoints are still connected). I have a multi-tool, felt the blade a little to thick, but instead of me speculating, I'll take it out and have a go at this one.

Dont use a dremel, those are strictly for crafts.

Buy a corded multi tool, way more power, better accessories, and just as easy to manipulate. Clearance will be the only issue.

Btw, have you tried separating the two pieces with a wedge/chisel to relieve stress on the bolt yet?

I don't think it will make matters worse if I intentionally cut the bolt within (where the slots are). I don't mind cutting in deeper than needed as the upper control arms are being replaced as well.

Thanks again for the guidance.

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

Borrow the ball joint press from Autozone and press the broken bolt a little deeper in. Once it has moved, the penetrating oil will work better.

 

[woody 73]

I just do not understand this post or for that matter other postings.

OP you asked do they make smaller sizes then .401 ?
The short answer is no that should have stopped right there end of story.

Then in another story this week you asked my Mayhew punch mushroomed.
Short answer Dress it up on a grinder and that should have been the end of the story.

Another story this week my new craftsman screwdriver tip became bent.
A good short answer go back to sears and get another one, end of story.

Yet again last week my new torque wrench came not set at zero but at 15.
Short answer if you are not happy send it back.

Am I missing something why are your posts going into several pages in length for simple questions?

 

[Olafur]

Olafur, I feel that I tried this already, but not to my full potential with caution given to the fender of the car. Since you mentioned it, I'm going to try again.

If you use washers and tighten the nut you will have few tons of force trying to pull the bolt out. Hammer the other end and you have good chance of getting it to move.

 

[Superbec]

There may be a learning curve, but the more I get familiar, I'll gain the experience needed to more car repairs on my own.

IF you don't kill yourself or others in the process

I'm really not kidding this time, suspension work on your level of inexperience is a nono, don't care how much money you save ...

Sometimes forums do more bad than good.

I repair broken stuff done by "DIYers" all the time.

Judging by your questions on this forum this far I wouldn't let you near tools, ever , it's just not your thing, maybe you're good at other stuff, keep doing that and pay someone to fix your car.

that bolt is not welded over there, one good hit with a big enough hammer will have it flying cross the garage , there's no magic alien corosion, and btw, aluminium warps so much less than steel, in your case you can't even heat that chunk of allu fast enough so it warps...

 

[Al Borland]

IF you don't kill yourself or others in the process

I'm really not kidding this time, suspension work on your level of inexperience is a nono, don't care how much money you save ...

Sometimes forums do more bad than good.

I repair broken stuff done by "DIYers" all the time.

Judging by your questions on this forum this far I wouldn't let you near tools, ever , it's just not your thing, maybe you're good at other stuff, keep doing that and pay someone to fix your car.

that bolt is not welded over there, one good hit with a big enough hammer will have it flying cross the garage , there's no magic alien corosion, and btw, aluminium warps so much less than steel, in your case you can't even heat that chunk of allu fast enough so it warps...

You guys take all the fun out of his questions.
Don't see why he couldn't tap on the split/slot that the pinch bolt closes to get the tension off the bolt, unless it's shouldered.
He could double-nut the stud sticking out and try to turn that (or break that too, )
There IS something to be said for letting the pros do things for you when you are over your head. Start with small stuff and work your way up. Sometimes, DIY can get REALLY expensive...And it's usually self-inflicted.
Air hammers can do a LOT of damage REALLY, REALLY fast.
Although we like carnage pictures when you do said damage, you are playing with an expen$ive car with expen$ive parts...
Pay the guy who knows what he's doing.

 

[gdocktor3]

Pay the guy who knows what he's doing.

That's obviously not going to happen.. He's obviously a newbie and very excited about the whole tools/fixing thing. I can respect that. You learn from your mistakes. Some more expensive than others. He truly doesn't realize how dumb some of his questions sound because he just doesn't know any better. Especially when compared to veteran mechanics and diyers. Live and learn. Break all the tools, parts, bones you'd like!

 

[Al Borland]

That's obviously not going to happen.. He's obviously a newbie and very excited about the whole tools/fixing thing. I can respect that. You learn from your mistakes. Some more expensive than others. He truly doesn't realize how dumb some of his questions sound because he just doesn't know any better. Especially when compared to veteran mechanics and diyers. Live and learn. Break all the tools, parts, bones you'd like!

*Sigh*
Yeah, I know...
Trying to give him the benefit of the doubt... Seems like some people on here think he's a troll pretending to know nothing...
(Not sure thinking he doesn't know anything is really the BENEFIT of the doubt...)
Sometimes, a credit card is the best tool in your arsenal. If he can afford that car, and all the tools he buys and destroys, a mechanic should be pocket change.
Also, don't REALLY want to see anyone get hurt (But if you do, we like pictures)
Suspension and springs can really hurt you, either working on them, or by not getting them RIGHT and going for a ride.

 

[Thezapper]

The best way to remove that pinch bolt was to heat it with a torch + impact gun reverse / forward action it would have came out in 5 min. Period. I've removed the most stubborn ones that way. If that didn't do it my 2nd attempt would be when the head of the bolt breaks off because of the impact gun action is to heat+air chisel action. I do have a 9mm round chisel that I bought off snap on years ago that I use specifically for this type of Nightmare job. One tip is to remove the tie rod end so you don't F the steering rack, with all the air chiseling. Heat that knuckle with good ole fire wrench and air chisel that bolt out, don't be a scared about heating up the aluminum, heat it up don't turn it into molten lava! It goes without saying that you will have to replace both upper bjs after cooking them. Good luck! And let me know when you get out.

 

[winlinmac]

Taking the Tie Rod end was the first thing I did for allowing more clearance to turn the spindle...

Again, I've performed the most basic repair / maintenance tasks on a car before you know (this comment is not directed at you Thezapper, I really appreciate your guidance to me on this matter)

Thank you all for encouraging me to carry on the task, whereas others, thanks for reminding me to be careful when dealing with the springs.

I've never come across a stubborn bolt, this stubborn before. Its something new for me, especially air tools, and will certainly pave the way for me towards gaining more experience.

The best way to remove that pinch bolt was to heat it with a torch + impact gun reverse / forward action it would have came out in 5 min. Period. I've removed the most stubborn ones that way. If that didn't do it my 2nd attempt would be when the head of the bolt breaks off because of the impact gun action is to heat+air chisel action. I do have a 9mm round chisel that I bought off snap on years ago that I use specifically for this type of Nightmare job. One tip is to remove the tie rod end so you don't F the steering rack, with all the air chiseling. Heat that knuckle with good ole fire wrench and air chisel that bolt out, don't be a scared about heating up the aluminum, heat it up don't turn it into molten lava! It goes without saying that you will have to replace both upper bjs after cooking them. Good luck! And let me know when you get out.

 

[Gmonkee]

I do a lot of VW suspension work. The alu and steel corrosion hits and sometimes needs WD40 and some hammering but it always seems to break without destroying parts.

Sometimes the trick is to drop the whole corner suspension and work on it outside the car. Get rid of the fenders and wiring making room for better weapons.

Reinstall the parts after cleaning up old rust and lubing bolts prone to bad rust over time. It makes a difference next time.

 

[WVBrady]

I have never worked on this particular car, but I do have some experience with " alu and steel corrosion". I had a VW Rabbit diesel that liked to blow head gaskets. I had a good job and a good mechanic, so I would have him do the job. On the last time, I had a garage to work in so I thought I would do the honors. I broke three head bolts trying to get the head off. With those three broken and the others removed, I still could not get the head off. I tried various things and the last involved supporting the weight of the car by the head; still wouldn't move. I towed the car to the mechanic and he wound up chiseling the head off. He said that he had done hundreds of them and that is the first one that he couldn't remove. After the head was gone, the bolts came out easily, so the corrosion was between the unthreaded part of the bolt and the head. He did mention that the previous time he had used a new kind of head bolt that didn't have to be retorqued. I suspect that this new bolt and the aluminum head were especially incompatible; maybe if he had used anti-sieze on the unthreaded part of the bolts it would have been ok.

 

[winlinmac]

Here's an update with my situation,

I had to angle grind part of the bolt within one of the pinch bolt slots. The threaded part of the bolt successfully came off, but now the non-threaded (smooth) portion of the bolt remains. I had to drill out the center of the bolt using a 3/16" bit (a work of art by the way), and in-spite of using an air hammer afterwards, the remaining portion of the bolt would still not move. I purchased a 1/4" bit and 5/16" bit and hope to get the remaining part of the bolt out without inflicting damage to the spindle.

The heat source is coming from the drill bit, and I'm using lots of Seaform Creep as well as PB Blaster in the process.

While work continues on the Driver side, I have lubricated the passenger side in advance.

Any further suggestions and advice are welcomed. Thanks again.

 

[Al Borland]

BEFORE you start the other side, heat the knuckle and let it cool a couple times. Heat it hot, but don't melt it. Aluminum expands more and faster than steel. This will help break the galvanic bond between the two dissimilar metals.
When breaking it loose, don't put a hand wrench/breaker bar on it steady pressure building torque is what breaks stuck bolts. You want to use an impact wrench to "shock' it and break it loose.
Personally. I like the old fashioned manual impact drivers that you hit with a hammer. With a manual impact, you want a shallow socket on it, and if you can bottom the bolt head in the socket, some of the force is sent down the bolt to shock it loose instead of just twisting the head.
Remember, heat is your friend, and shock the bolt to break it loose.

 

[md21722]

Don't discount the impact. They will often zip stuff out that a 18" ratchet will snap the head right off the bolt. There is enough good advice in this thread to solve this issue.

 

[winlinmac]

Thank you Al, would you recommend BernzOmatic as far as heating the knuckle is concerned?

BEFORE you start the other side, heat the knuckle and let it cool a couple times. Heat it hot, but don't melt it. Aluminum expands more and faster than steel. This will help break the galvanic bond between the two dissimilar metals.
When breaking it loose, don't put a hand wrench/breaker bar on it steady pressure building torque is what breaks stuck bolts. You want to use an impact wrench to "shock' it and break it loose.
Personally. I like the old fashioned manual impact drivers that you hit with a hammer. With a manual impact, you want a shallow socket on it, and if you can bottom the bolt head in the socket, some of the force is sent down the bolt to shock it loose instead of just twisting the head.
Remember, heat is your friend, and shock the bolt to break it loose.

 

[gdocktor3]

Thank you Al, would you recommend BernzOmatic as far as heating the knuckle is concerned?

A bernzomatic will work just fine lol. Maybe get yourself a flexible rubber hose instead of the standard tip. This will make things much easier when working in tight spots.

Honestly, I feel like you're in over your head right now. Why you would ever cut the remaining threads off of the bolt is beyond me. Those remaining threads were your only friend left in this awful mess. Now, you're almost certainly going to have to drill the remaining piece out entirely, with out destroying the aluminum piece. If you are seriously going to attempt the other side, you need to take all the info, tips & tricks provided here and put them to use. And don't do anything you did on this side. Don't shear the head off with your impact wrench. Don't cut the threads off. You need heat. There is no way around it. I'd say 7 out of 10 times a mechanic does work like this, heat is used. If you do find yourself in this situation on the other side, keep it to yourself. You will surely look like a complete fool if you do it again.

 

[pi_guy]

Dude, are you for real? Every air chisel manufacturer on planet earth makes a taper punch with the standard .401 shank. The end that goes into the air chisel is irrelevant it's the business end that matters. Some of your questions are so weird I often wonder if you're serious.

Been wondering the same thing.
If you are so unsure of everything that you have to post the most "out to lunch questions". Do you over think ever thing.
Some things are simple and making them complex is pointless.

 

[winlinmac]

I'm pretty I've been overthinking a lot lately.

I was able to drill most of the bolt away, but a small portion of the upper part of the bolt is still in the way. A micro-fraction part of the pinch bolt slot has been accidentally grinded away. There has been no compromise to the diameter of the pinch bolt hole. Hopefully a few hits with a 3/8" Punch will help get the remaining part out of the way.

Hopefully, don't have to purchase a new spindle in the process.

A bernzomatic will work just fine lol. Maybe get yourself a flexible rubber hose instead of the standard tip. This will make things much easier when working in tight spots.

Honestly, I feel like you're in over your head right now. Why you would ever cut the remaining threads off of the bolt is beyond me. Those remaining threads were your only friend left in this awful mess. Now, you're almost certainly going to have to drill the remaining piece out entirely, with out destroying the aluminum piece. If you are seriously going to attempt the other side, you need to take all the info, tips & tricks provided here and put them to use. And don't do anything you did on this side. Don't shear the head off with your impact wrench. Don't cut the threads off. You need heat. There is no way around it. I'd say 7 out of 10 times a mechanic does work like this, heat is used. If you do find yourself in this situation on the other side, keep it to yourself. You will surely look like a complete fool if you do it again.

 

[Dirty Diesels]

BEFORE you start the other side, heat the knuckle and let it cool a couple times. Heat it hot, but don't melt it. Aluminum expands more and faster than steel. This will help break the galvanic bond between the two dissimilar metals.
When breaking it loose, don't put a hand wrench/breaker bar on it steady pressure building torque is what breaks stuck bolts. You want to use an impact wrench to "shock' it and break it loose.
Personally. I like the old fashioned manual impact drivers that you hit with a hammer. With a manual impact, you want a shallow socket on it, and if you can bottom the bolt head in the socket, some of the force is sent down the bolt to shock it loose instead of just twisting the head.
Remember, heat is your friend, and shock the bolt to break it loose.

He has been told this, back on page 2 of this thread, I left it there with him, simply a bit of heat and a pair of vise grips, the rest is poetry in motion!

 

[Strouty]

WindowsLinuxMacintosh, I think there is another member on here that could help you out, if I remember he goes by the name thecody59. I would PM him, but don't let him borrow your tools, they may end up with pet hair all over them.