Do I **** at welding or does my machine?

[Fender1325]

I have a hobart handler 140. Angle iron miter joint that I beveled and did two tacks I could rip apart with my hands. It also doesnt penetrate - more like hot glue on the surface. Machine is at suggested setting. I left no gap. Suggestions?

 

[MP&C]

Show some pictures...

 

[Fender1325]

I should note its 1/8" thick

 

[AndyCBR]

Pics will help.

Shielding gas? What type? Flux core wire?

 

[Fender1325]

Well, i ended up doing a full weld, and running one on the other side and grinding it down. That holds very strong but I feel like a machine should be able to melt material together, not just adc super glue on top.

 

[Fender1325]

75/25 gas, .035 wire

 

[srmofo]

Do you have the polarity set up right?

It makes a difference if you are using gas or not.

Polarity chart should be on the right side of the label you are getting the settings from.

http://www.hobartwelders.com/products/popups/infochart140.html

 

[srmofo]

Pics would really help

 

[Fender1325]

Cleaned the metal with a flap disc, i have a quarter inch stick out and Im holding the gun perpendicular to the joint. I let the wire hit the center then I make a little circle as it melts about 1/4" diameter. I did two tacks like that and was able to pull apart the joint. The tacks just sat on top, barely penetetrated.

My power is on 4 (5 being max). Bacon sizzle sound. All that good stuff. I feel like a larger machine would actually bite into the metal more and actually melt it rather than surface glue it.

 

[bullnerd]

Naa, that machine will do it.

Did you see the polarity question?

I know a guy that builds offroad racecars with the HH140 and they look great.

Go to the Hobart site and search for HH140, theres a dude on there that will blow your mind with the beads he makes. Forget his name, sorry. He was/is a beta tester for Hobart. should be pretty easy to get info there.

 

[AndyCBR]

Do you have the polarity set up right?

It makes a difference if you are using gas or not.

Polarity chart should be on the right side of the label you are getting the settings from.

http://www.hobartwelders.com/products/popups/infochart140.html

Excellent point, a lot of these smaller welders are packaged with a small roll of flux core wire in the box and the polarity is set that way out of the box.

 

[Fender1325]

Pics wouldnt help now as I reground the joints and laid actual beads on both sides, ensuring strength. I just think 2 1/4" tacs should hold and not be able to be broken apart by hand.
Polarity is right.

 

[Fender1325]

I mean I'll go lay 2 tacs and break it apart and show you guys for whatever its worth.

 

[srmofo]

Pics wouldnt help now as I reground the joints and laid actual beads on both sides, ensuring strength. I just think 2 1/4" tacs should hold and not be able to be broken apart by hand.
Polarity is right.

Pics of the new welds WOULD help.

You are well within the capabilities of that machine.
Did you check the polarity?

 

[kkroger]

What brand wire? I noticed a serious difference between Wires, I get Hobart branded wire always now, Harbor Freight wire sucked, so did Forney... The Hobart Stuff welds a LOT better. As for penetration are you moving too fast? not enough grunt? Only your Tacks are breaking? Not your WELD?

 

[AndyCBR]

Dude, people are trying to help. Most welding problems can be diagnosed by visual inspection.

If you are complaining of lack of penetration why not use the max setting? Spend more time in one spot to increase the heat and penetration.

 

[Ign]

Polarity was my immediate thought as well. Do it wrong and it welds "back at you" instead of at the work.

 

[Fender1325]

Dude, people are trying to help. Most welding problems can be diagnosed by visual inspection.

If you are complaining of lack of penetration why not use the max setting? Spend more time in one spot to increase the heat and penetration.

You misunderstood. The tack welds in question were ground off and I laid long beads all around my miter joint. Yeah it holds but I dont want to have to weld that much to get it to hold - I know its not penetrating. Even if I leave a gap you can see the weld not penetrating from the other side.

Im going to go re-create the problem and post pics.

I appreciate the help

 

[Fender1325]

Ok. This time they held better, but I think its bc I had a bit of a large gap. Im welding on the garage cement floor so its almost like filling it with a copper backing plate or something. Not really correct I guess.

 

[Fender1325]

Wont let me upload but 1 pic a time.

 

[Fender1325]

Here you see where it "penetrated". More like fell through the gap and filled against the concrete backing.

 

[Fender1325]

One of my beads. It sits too tall probably right? Even if I go slower it still sits tall I feel. Photo is oriented wrong. The crappy left one is actually a verticle inside the miter

 

[Fender1325]

More.

 

[Zrexxer]

75/25 gas, .035 wire

A 140-class machine doesn't have the current density to run .035 solid wire. Yeah, yeah, I know it's on the door chart. But go back to .025 or .030 wire and you'll have better results with that machine.

 

[Fender1325]

Ultimately thats what I think its coming down to. Yes my skills need work but I know Im laying on top too much and not blending into the metal the way it does on less thick material.

 

[Fender1325]

Im using the airgas house brand stuff for wire brand

 

[Fender1325]

A 140-class machine doesn't have the current density to run .035 solid wire. Yeah, yeah, I know it's on the door chart. But go back to .025 or .030 wire and you'll have better results with that machine.

Hence why I had mr electrician install 220. Gotta upgrade the machine. I want enough juice where I can accidentally burn through 1/8". This machine claims 1/4" capability but I could sit on 1/8" with the trigger on all day and it wont burn through. Thats on a 120v dedicated outlet.

 

[bullnerd]

Dang that's dirty looking! Sure you have solid wire?

 

[Zrexxer]

Hence why I had mr electrician install 220. Gotta upgrade the machine. I want enough juice where I can accidentally burn through 1/8". This machine claims 1/4" capability but I could sit on 1/8" with the trigger on all day and it wont burn through. Thats on a 120v dedicated outlet.

Regardless, you're crippling what capability that machine does have by trying to run .035 through it. You will actually have a higher current density and better penetration with a smaller diameter wire. I run a Millermatic 212 and I've never had anything bigger than .030 in it. No need to.

 

[Fender1325]

Yes. Thats just metal discoloration on the sides of the bead.

 

[Fender1325]

Regardless, you're crippling what capability that machine does have by trying to run .035 through it. You will actually have a higher current density and better penetration with a smaller diameter wire. I run a Millermatic 212 and I've never had anything bigger than .030 in it. No need to.

10-4 there buddy!

Ive never tried 25. Ivd got a lot of 18 gauge floor patch panels to make and install in my 50 cadillac. Should I run the 25 or just use 30?

 

[rsanter]

I agree with the you should go to 030 wire. Adjust the wire feed and change to using a sawtooth pattern verses your circles and you can get good penetration through the 1/8 material.
If you weld 1/4 and bevel it, and fill the V with a steady pattern you will stick it together very well

Bob

 

[Dmoen]

Lots off splatter, and no control on your part. Looks like you need to slow down a bit.. .030 wire works great. Use mine daily. No issues with 1/8"

 

[Nor'Easter]

You misunderstood. The tack welds in question were ground off and I laid long beads all around my miter joint. Yeah it holds but I dont want to have to weld that much to get it to hold

What are you trying to do? Tacks are meant to hold pieces in position until you are ready to final weld the joint. That's why they are called tacks. They aren't meant to withstand forces other than maybe pickinguo the piece and repositioning it.

Anyways if you closed up the gap some you would bite into either side more. Right now most of your wire and heat is being used to bridge the gap, rather than penetrate.

 

[DirtyJersey]

What are you trying to do? Tacks are meant to hold pieces in position until you are ready to final weld the joint. That's why they are called tacks. They aren't meant to withstand forces other than maybe pickinguo the piece and repositioning it.

Anyways if you closed up the gap some you would bite into either side more. Right now most of your wire and heat is being used to bridge the gap, rather than penetrate.

Was thinking the same!

Texting while driving

 

[bullnerd]

What are you trying to do? Tacks are meant to hold pieces in position until you are ready to final weld the joint. That's why they are called tacks. They aren't meant to withstand forces other than maybe pickinguo the piece and repositioning it.

Anyways if you closed up the gap some you would bite into either side more. Right now most of your wire and heat is being used to bridge the gap, rather than penetrate.

Well put!

And I agree on the smaller wire also, I use 30 and smaller in my 187.

This was done on a HH187, but Ive seen the same done with the 140.

For inspiration!
http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=31474&d=1279926644

 

[Fender1325]

Well I was making a frame for a coffee table Im building. I tacked it up and carried it in to test fit. When moving it one corner broke. Then I realized I could break it all by hand and the tacks were all laying on the surface. I just figured two 1/4" tacks would hold better than that.

As for the spatter not much I can do - im not gonna buy anti spatter or use pam. Comes right off with a flap disc. Metal was clean where I welded. I was not cutting off the little ball at the end of the wire before each pass, so theres some initial pops.

 

[Fender1325]

Well put!

And I agree on the smaller wire also, I use 30 and smaller in my 187.

This was done on a HH187, but Ive seen the same done with the 140.

For inspiration!
http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=31474&d=1279926644

Thats nice as ****! Did you do that? What gun angle and pattern did you follow?

I havent been welding too much lately so Im a little rusty on top of being new.

 

[stihlntime]

Like many have stated drop back to .030 wire. A 110 machine just won't run .035 wire. Check your polarity like others have stated. Your machine should handle what your doing easily.

 

[Fender1325]

Double checked polarity and its right. I think that 35 is just globbing on too cold. Would 25 burn in even hotter than 30?