Do I Have The Code Correct?

[Damn Yankee]

Hey Folks,

Living in Grainger, East Tennessee, I have a detached garage with a meter combo panel on the outside wall. Inside the combo panel is a 200A main. The load side of the main breaker feeds 6 spaces in the combo panel (currently no breakers) and the main panel in the house (which has no main breaker). The house and garage are connected by a roofed breezeway through which the garage gets its power.

I propose to install a branch panel in the garage and feed it with a 100A breaker using 2 slots of the combo panel (220V) through the wall to the inside. Questions:

Is this up to 2023 code? Larger question, has anything changed that would cause my inpector to force me to upgrade my house panel because the main breaker (main disconnect) is outside and not within the house's panel?

All observations and comments are welcome.

Thanks,
John

 

[sparky 1971]

2023 says you have to have a disconnect outside so you're covered there. The problem I see is that if the garage and house are considered separate from each other and the main is on the garage, the house needs a main. The breezeway connecting the two might make it fit the definition of attached in the inspectors eyes. I have no experience with one so my opinion doesn't matter, but I would call them attached. Here, they only look at what is permitted so there would be no reason for him to even see the house panel and ask questions. My advice is keep your mouth shut about it.

 

[Damn Yankee]

Boy, that is good advice. I once did a kitchen rehab and while I was at it put in black pipe for LP. That (the LP installation) I wanted inspected. Once the inspector saw the kitchen torn apart (the sink was on sawhorses) he included it. I just bought a very expensive huge single basin sink. We talked about it and he insisted on a double basin. And the stainless sheathed 1/4" water line for the ice cube maker had to go in favor of just the 1/4 plastic (even though the SS line was plastic with a sheath). It turned into a nightmare. I am afraid his nose will lead him inside on this one. The house was built around 2000 and all 40 slots in that panel are filled. It would be mighty expensive to redo that.

I guess I will call the County on that point.

Thanks,
John

 

[sparky 1971]

Boy, that is good advice. I once did a kitchen rehab and while I was at it put in black pipe for LP. That (the LP installation) I wanted inspected. Once the inspector saw the kitchen torn apart (the sink was on sawhorses) he included it. I just bought a very expensive huge single basin sink. We talked about it and he insisted on a double basin. And the stainless sheathed 1/4" water line for the ice cube maker had to go in favor of just the 1/4 plastic (even though the SS line was plastic with a sheath). It turned into a nightmare. I am afraid his nose will lead him inside on this one. The house was built around 2000 and all 40 slots in that panel are filled. It would be mighty expensive to redo that.

I guess I will call the County on that point.

Thanks,
John

If the house was inspected when built you should be ok. The majority of the rural areas where I am didn't have an inspection process in place until 2007.

 

[dave*99]

I just bought a very expensive huge single basin sink. We talked about it and he insisted on a double basin.

What? Why? How?
How does he justify that? Why would he care?

 

[Damn Yankee]

Yeah, my thoughts. too. He said on both points it was a sanitary issue without expounding. He broke my n*ts over the black pipe installation too, insisting I put plugs at the end of valves that were for future use. That wan't code at the time and when I said that he said because he wanted it.

The inspector is God when he walks into your house. I learned that a long time ago. My business would get a yearly fire inspection. Every year we had to do something. On year I thought I'd get cute, so we went through the shop with a fine-tooth comb. When he came, he gave us triple nit-picky stuff; took forever to fix. Give them a bone and you are safe.

J

 

[dave*99]

Yeah, my thoughts. too. He said on both points it was a sanitary issue without expounding. He broke my n*ts over the black pipe installation too, insisting I put plugs at the end of valves that were for future use. That wan't code at the time and when I said that he said because he wanted it.

The inspector is God when he walks into your house. I learned that a long time ago. My business would get a yearly fire inspection. Every year we had to do something. On year I thought I'd get cute, so we went through the shop with a fine-tooth comb. When he came, he gave us triple nit-picky stuff; took forever to fix. Give them a bone and you are safe.

J

Wow, I can deal with pipe plugs on some open valves, but tell your wife she is getting a double basin sink when she wants a single......

I just figured it out.... Your inspectors wife wants a very expensive huge single basin sink. He told her it's against code he just failed somebody for that.......

 

[BreeStephany]

Unfortunately, most code regulations put Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJs) above code. The code is the minimum code required, but the AHJ has the 'ultimate' jurisdiction in what they would like to see.

Often times, unless the AHJ / inspectors requests are way out of line, do not meet current code standards or require a significantly expensive change that we see as unnecessary and not required by code in any way, the AHJ has all the power and we make any revisions as necessary.

Better to make friends with the AHJ and keep them focused on the area involving the scope of work of the permit.

Most the time the inspectors we work with are pretty easy and only call out issues we didn't catch during pre-inspection walk through, but if they want to, they can be a major thorn in your side.

Just my two cents.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Unfortunately, most code regulations put Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJs) above code. The code is the minimum code required, but the AHJ has the 'ultimate' jurisdiction in what they would like to see.

Often times, unless the AHJ / inspectors requests are way out of line, do not meet current code standards or require a significantly expensive change that we see as unnecessary and not required by code in any way, the AHJ has all the power and we make any revisions as necessary.

Better to make friends with the AHJ and keep them focused on the area involving the scope of work of the permit.

Most the time the inspectors we work with are pretty easy and only call out issues we didn't catch during pre-inspection walk through, but if they want to, they can be a major thorn in your side.

Just my two cents.

only IF they have written amendments. otherwise, they can desire to see whatever they want but its not code permissible.

 

[Fav Onefour]

Yeah, my thoughts. too. He said on both points it was a sanitary issue without expounding. He broke my n*ts over the black pipe installation too, insisting I put plugs at the end of valves that were for future use. That wan't code at the time and when I said that he said because he wanted it.

The inspector is God when he walks into your house. I learned that a long time ago. My business would get a yearly fire inspection. Every year we had to do something. On year I thought I'd get cute, so we went through the shop with a fine-tooth comb. When he came, he gave us triple nit-picky stuff; took forever to fix. Give them a bone and you are safe.

J

To the bold. Man, isn't that the truth.
My wife and I joke about that practice. She even asks what I left so it will be easy to find.
We deal with a lot of inspections on various properties. Most of our stuff is scattered through three different city jurisdictions. The building inspections are toughest. We have contractor work done at times and we warn them about one city in particular. One poor group had to tear off siding even though they had the pictures. Inspector didn't show up so they kept working. We tried to tell them it would be an issue.
I messed up with one of our nicely updated buildings. Everything was code and the building was clean. That inspector wanted an additional fire door beyond code. In my case, when God says put in a fire door, I put in a fire door. It's not worth the friggin hassle of fighting and dealing with the dingus the next time. It would have been a whole lot easier to yank a couple bolts out of a stair rail and let him have that win.

 

[Damn Yankee]

Can you imagine ******* one of those guys off and have to deal with him time and time again? He is God and you are in Hell...

 

[Innovate1]

I feel very fortunate in my dealings with inspectors, especially after reading other postings. I have told to do a few things that I thought were totally unnecessary but easy enough to do so I just did them (after first questioning it and being told a second time it was needed). I think I narrowly escaped AHJ hell by giving up plans to build in a nearby location. I got through plans approval which was torture in itself and stopped after that. Most of my interactions have been pretty good and some have been very helpful suggesting easy ways to meet code or do some details. But it only takes one to make things really difficult.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Can you imagine ******* one of those guys off and have to deal with him time and time again? He is God and you are in Hell...

not quite. inspectors have gotten written up and even fired for trying to play that BS. inspector is not God and they do make mistakes and even try to play the code authority and make up codes. they get put in their place sometimes, then they place nice.

 

[sparky 1971]

9Can you imagine ******* one of those guys off and have to deal with him time and time again? He is God and you are in Hell...

It depends on who is right. I have no problem butting heads, but only if I am confident that I am right and can prove it. I've never had a problem with an actual electrical inspector, but have had my share of "instances" with do it all building inspectors. They rarely admit they are wrong, just act like they are doing me a favor by passing it.

 

[Damn Yankee]

Do appreciate all the answers.

Thank!
John