Do I need a larger cable puller or?

[pr3dict]

I rented this 3000# cable puller from my local electrical distributor. Well, After pulling my 3/4" 26000lb breaking strength rope and the 12 wires behind it. I'm at a loss.

It started smoking last night I let it sit overnight to cool off. Now it trips breakers like it was made to do that. Sooo another rental place near me has Greenlee 6805 8000# tugger. Should I grab that and give it another go or do you think I should cut my losses and try to hire this out?

I have a pickup truck but I don't have anything to change the direction of the rope so it doesn't rip the lb off the wall.

I'm not happy to say the least lol.

FWIW I'm pulling the following in a 2 1/2":
3 - 4/0
3 - 1/0
1 - 2
5 - 12

 

[Gokart]

are you using lube?

 

[powerstroke444e]

Sounds like alot of wire for 2½ pipe I assume you are using lube and minimize bends? Run a second run so you don't damage the wire.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[Zmann]

https://www.southwire.com/calculator-conduit

Looks like no problem fill wise but looks like a pain in the image lol
lube- lube and more lube

 

[Bert_]

I've got a maxis puller like that. I've pulled more wire than what you're doing without a problem. I've never used more than 1/2" rope.

How are you feeding in in the other end? Really shouldn't need lube unless you used a bunch of 90*s.

Here's my favorite puller! I have a pulley I just tie off to something handy when I need to change direction.

 

[pr3dict]

We've been using a lot of lub. Almost spraying every few feet or so. Unfortunately It's going to rain tonight. I hope I didn't get something stuck and that this puller I have is just a POS.

We laid out all the larger gauge wire and he's just making sure it goes in straight when I pull. The 5 12's are on the spool hanging from a ladder.

There are 2 45's and 1 90 in the run I'm doing now.

 

[Jim greengo]

I've got a maxis puller like that. I've pulled more wire than what you're doing without a problem. I've never used more than 1/2" rope.

How are you feeding in in the other end? Really shouldn't need lube unless you used a bunch of 90*s.

Here's my favorite puller! I have a pulley I just tie off to something handy when I need to change direction.

I've used my back hoe on more than 1 big industrial pulling job over the years.

 

[Jim greengo]

Are you staggering the ends of the cables?
Maybe a joint didnt get seated all the way in the pipe.

 

[pr3dict]

Yeah the cables are staggered. The 3 4/0's are opened up pretty large and I wrapped 5 strands each around the rope eye. Then the 1/0's, 2 and 12's I wrappered a few strands each around the 4/0's . Then taped it all into a long taped wire thing. It all it in the pipe.

What do you mean joint didnt get seated all the way?

 

[PCustoms]

Why are you pulling so much in 1 pipe?

 

[pr3dict]

Why are you pulling so much in 1 pipe?

Because little old me used https://www.southwire.com/calculator-conduit to calculate the size of a conduit that would fit all these cables and it spit out a number and I said "Sure ok"...

In my mind if it all fit in one conduit why would I run 2 and make 2 penetrations into my house and blah blah blah. Just more stuff to deal with. Obviously that was a mistake and I should have probably used 2 conduits but it is what it is now.

 

[PCustoms]

I guess what I'm getting at is what are you wiring?

You can only have 1feed to a building

 

[pr3dict]

I guess what I'm getting at is what are you wiring?

You can only have 1feed to a building

Oh.. It feeds a J box on the side of my garage I'm building. the 3 1/0 are for the subpanel in the garage. the 3 4/0 and the 5 12's are for a generator that I'm also putting behind the garage. The #2 is a shared ground for both. Allllll that cables is supposed to go through that pipe to the basement of my house where I have another J box that splits splits the 4/0 into the transfer switch and the 1/0 to the main panel. Fun times all around, if I ever complete the project.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I rented this 3000# cable puller from my local electrical distributor. Well, After pulling my 3/4" 26000lb breaking strength rope and the 12 wires behind it. I'm at a loss.

It started smoking last night I let it sit overnight to cool off. Now it trips breakers like it was made to do that. Sooo another rental place near me has Greenlee 6805 8000# tugger. Should I grab that and give it another go or do you think I should cut my losses and try to hire this out?

I have a pickup truck but I don't have anything to change the direction of the rope so it doesn't rip the lb off the wall.

I'm not happy to say the least lol.

FWIW I'm pulling the following in a 2 1/2":
3 - 4/0
3 - 1/0
1 - 2
5 - 12

wow thats a lot of wire for that pipe.

what is all this for and did you derate the ampacity?

I wouldve split that between 2 pipes.

 

[Strouty]

I would have done three pipes, one for the 4/0, one for the 3/0, and one for the rest, heck I probably would have put a fourth in just as a spare. Conduit is cheap compared to having to dig things up. I wish you luck for sure, never used a "how many wires fit" calculator, note to self, whatever they say, go bigger!

 

[pr3dict]

But but but I saved money on not having to pull a second ground wire through the pipe haha.

All the wires are upsized for voltage drop so even with the derating it's still all good.

The generator will supply 100 amps and the sub panel 60 amps.

anyways, sooo options... I have about half of the cable in the pipe right now. I guess technically I could pull it all back. Though I'd like to avoid that. AAAAndddd spend the extra $500 on more conduit and then drill another 2 1/2 inch hole in my damn foundation and try to bend the conduit again to fit the trench and and and... Yeah this is not going to happen. I have to make it fit in THIS hole. If I want to throw away the 240ft of conduit I already have


I can maybe upsize to a 3" or maybe 4" and then when it gets to that handhole I can reduce back down to a 2.5" and when it gets to the foundation of the house I can reduce it back to a 2.5" and do the rest of the inside in 2.5" But I cannot run anything larger then 2.5" next to the garage and I'm definitely not making a 3rd penetration in the side of the foundation. That was a PITA.

 

[klassenl]

But but but I saved money....

Me too....

 

[joablynn]

A push from the feeding end can be worth a lot more than more force at the tugger. If I was in your shoes, I’d be adding an extra guy or two feeding, pulling it back out a few feet, then seeing if you can get it moving in again.

 

[brewchief]

How about running a separate conduit for the #12s? They don't take up much space but they can get wrapped around the larger conductors and bind things up, they are also the most likely to be damaged during the pull.

I see wires covered in dirt and mud, grit will only increase the drag.

I would pull it back out and try to get as much dirt out of the pipe as possible and try again without the #12s, I would try to wipe the conductors off as much as possible going back in.

Running a new 3/4" for the 12s shouldn't be a huge deal or overly expensive.

Sent from my SM-T510 using Tapatalk

 

[pr3dict]

How about running a separate conduit for the #12s? They don't take up much space but they can get wrapped around the larger conductors and bind things up, they are also the most likely to be damaged during the pull.

I see wires covered in dirt and mud, grit will only increase the drag.

I would pull it back out and try to get as much dirt out of the pipe as possible and try again without the #12s, I would try to wipe the conductors off as much as possible going back in.

Running a new 3/4" for the 12s shouldn't be a huge deal or overly expensive.

Sent from my SM-T510 using Tapatalk

I don't even know if I'll be able to pull back the cables. My friend tried to pull it back once just to see if he could and said it wasn't moving haha.

Hmmm... I have a 3/4" already. It wouldn't be hard to put the #12's in with the fiber I'm running in it already. I think the biggest issue with that code wise is that the 3/4" I ran doesn't have a break after 360 degrees because it was one fiber cable I figured it wouldn't be an issue to run. I might have to add a pull box now if I'm putting power in it.

I'm calling two electricians tomorrow to see if anyone wants to pickup this job and get the rest of the wire where it needs to go. Figured I'd see what they say in terms of price. I'd definitely pay a few hundred dollars to get this issue behind me.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

dont put fiber and line voltage electrical wire in the same conduit

 

[pr3dict]

dont put fiber and line voltage electrical wire in the same conduit

Why not?

770.133 in regards to non-conductive fiber and power cables:
“Non-conductive optical fiber cables shall be permitted to occupy the same cable tray or raceway with conductors for electric light, power, class 1, non-power limited fire alarm, Type ITC, or medium-power network-powered broadband communications circuits operating at 1000 volts or less.”

 

[510ebl]

We've been using a lot of lub. Almost spraying every few feet or so.

Help me out here...spraying every few feet does not sound like “a lot” of lube. I’m not an electrician, but seem to recall the pull going to our commercial building involving pouring a 5 gallon bucket of lube down a 4” conduit ahead of the wire. Then applying more with a rag as wire was fed along. Maybe that was overkill? The pull went smoothly and was a fairly long distance to the other end. In the neighborhood of 400 feet or more with at least two 90s.

 

[pr3dict]

Help me out here...spraying every few feet does not sound like “a lot” of lube. I’m not an electrician, but seem to recall the pull going to our commercial building involving pouring a 5 gallon bucket of lube down a 4” conduit ahead of the wire. Then applying more with a rag as wire was fed along. Maybe that was overkill? The pull went smoothly and was a fairly long distance to the other end. In the neighborhood of 400 feet or more with at least two 90s.

This is good info... I'm using https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-Tools-19-oz-Foam-Wire-Pulling-Lubricant-51100/205360844

Am I effing up? I'm pulling roughly 300 ft.

 

[Tom Sestito]

Before you do anything rash - pull it all back out and apply 3x more lube and try again. That would cost very little to try.

 

[tarmy]

The photo shows that the Trench is still open...is it?

If it is, drop another conduit in and make it easy. As mentioned, put a couple in and an extra...

 

[Innovate1]

Calculator says it is ok but going up a size is always good, especially on a long run. Are the bends long sweeps? That makes a big difference.

 

[pr3dict]

I can deff throw more lube. As for putting more conduit thats a no go. The trench is open in some spots but not all. Also It's not deep enough or wide enough for a 2nd conduit.

The sweeps are used with preformed pieces so they aren't wide persay.

 

[PWilks]

Lube never hurt nobody.

 

[Innovate1]

I can deff throw more lube. As for putting more conduit thats a no go. The trench is open in some spots but not all. Also It's not deep enough or wide enough for a 2nd conduit.

The sweeps are used with preformed pieces so they aren't wide persay.

There are people here that have a lot more experience with this sort of thing than I do but I would say the standard radius bends are a big part of your issue (along with going with a size that just meets the limits for fill). Preformed sweeps in large radius are available. Not as readily available but 2" and up should be available from real electrical suppliers.

With the wire partway through you don't have a lot of options. More lube is worth a try. Having one or two people feeding the wire in on the other end and pushing helps too.

 

[grounded-b]

All it takes is one or two wires to "cross" in the conduit and you'll have a jam. Sometimes feeding the wires is the most important part of the pull. Never have a green apprentice feed the wires, or you'll be sorry. They have to be fed into the conduit, perfectly parallel with no crossovers.

Also, I agree with the other posters, get a bucket of gel type wire lube, and apply it by the handful constantly.

Steve
35+ years in the electrical trade
.

 

[grounded-b]

Another thing, cleanliness is important when feeding wires. The wires are picking up dirt, by laying on the ground like that. Dirt is abrasive and causes friction.

Put some cardboard or 4x8 sheets of plywood down in you feeding area, to keep the wires off the ground..

p.s. pulling wires into a raceway system which is not complete from box to box, is also a violation of the NEC. It is not per code, to slide the pieces of conduit over wires which are already in place. Although in your case, adding the extra 90, would really make your pull difficult

 

[pr3dict]

Another thing, cleanliness is important when feeding wires. The wires are picking up dirt, by laying on the ground like that. Dirt is abrasive and causes friction.

Put some cardboard or 4x8 sheets of plywood down in you feeding area, to keep the wires off the ground..

p.s. pulling wires into a raceway system which is not complete from box to box, is also a violation of the NEC. It is not per code, to slide the pieces of conduit over wires which are already in place. Although in your case, adding the extra 90, would really make your pull difficult

The area where he is feeding is open because I have a 40" handhole that's going there. over that area. So not a break persay. The rest of the run is completed.

Yeah this definitely has not been a perfect run by any means. I guess I need to try and pull it back but that requires bodies that I don't have... No good.

 

[mcbane]

Lube never hurt nobody.

Local power company requires huge amounts of lube. See attached table.

Edit: For some reason my upload was turned into an 64x64 pixel icon and is unreadable. In any case, the table tells you how many gallons of pourable lube needed for various pulls.

 

[grounded-b]

The area where he is feeding is open because I have a 40" handhole that's going there. over that area. So not a break persay. The rest of the run is completed.
.

In cases like that ( stub conduits, not entering a j-box), they make a "bell end" to glue on the PVC conduit. This provides a smooth curved edge, so the wires feed easier and don't get abraded

Not a bushing ( which would also work, screwed to a glued on male adapter), but a bell end

 

[AP514]

If you pull Wire over Fiber cable that is already installed you will Mess up the Fiber Cable.

Fiber Cable is Delicate

 

[pr3dict]

In cases like that ( stub conduits, not entering a j-box), they make a "bell end" to glue on the PVC conduit. This provides a smooth curved edge, so the wires feed easier and don't get abraded

Not a bushing ( which would also work, screwed to a glued on male adapter), but a bell end

I have a few extra males and bushings I'll do that. This is becoming very stressful. 1 electrician already declined.

If you pull Wire over Fiber cable that is already installed you will Mess up the Fiber Cable.

Fiber Cable is Delicate

Fiber hasn't been pulled yet in the 3/4" I was going to pull it by itself in there but if I should put the 12's in another then I can deff pull it at the same time.

 

[LXCam]

Pretty sure you mentioned breaking the rope as well as two 90’s and one 45. I’d venture to guess the rope cut through one of the 90’s or the 45. All though that’s a tuff pull, it ain’t that bad unless you’ve allowed the wires to get crossed over.

 

[pr3dict]

Rope didn't break. I'm using 3/4" of this stuff https://www.rope.com/collections/pu...ble-braid-pulling-rope?variant=32247126392866

What I had an issue with was the conduit measuring tape. That **** cut through an LB corner like it was it's job. I was amazed how quickly it sliced through it lol

 

[LXCam]

Rope didn't break. I'm using 3/4" of this stuff https://www.rope.com/collections/pu...ble-braid-pulling-rope?variant=32247126392866

What I had an issue with was the conduit measuring tape. That **** cut through an LB corner like it was it's job. I was amazed how quickly it sliced through it lol

Got ya.