Do I need these braces?

[ScaldedDog]

Either to pass final frame, or for real-world structural rigidity? Here's what I'm asking about:

Do the diagonal braces actually do anything after the building is up? I'm not too concerned about the front one, but that back one is really going to foul up the attic space. Can I take it, and the 2x4's that connect the truss horizontal members, down? Will the inspector care?

The attic floor will have an OSB floor, and the attic walls and ceiling will be sheet rocked, if that matters.

Thanks!

Mark

 

[IDASHO]

Your truss plans will tell you what braces are required.

 

[mmg440]

I would believe you do. Not that the building would fall down if you take them out but they will keep thing from leaning sideways, and help with wind forces. I seem to recall watching a discovery channel show or similar that was showing damaged buildings after a hurricane and how small things such as the angle braces in the attics many times would make the difference if a building failed. There may be a way to restructure without them in the way but I do think they aid in the buildings support.

But I could be wrong

 

[carcruse]

Your truss plans will tell you what braces are required.

I agree. The inspector should have been provided a set of truss plans with an Engineers seal on them. He will compare the plans to whats found at the site. If they're shown on the plans, they will have to stay. If not called for on the plans, then they can be removed.

 

[boiler7904]

Your truss plans will tell you what braces are required.

I agree. The inspector should have been provided a set of truss plans with an Engineers seal on them. He will compare the plans to whats found at the site. If they're shown on the plans, they will have to stay. If not called for on the plans, then they can be removed.

Removal depends on what type of bracing it is. Temporary bracing can be removed as you wish. It is only meant to help stabilize the trusses until they are sheathed. Permanent bracing needs to stay as it helps connect the trusses and distribute wind loading or other forces. Bracing not shown on the plan is extra and can also be removed.

Get a full set of truss drawings from the truss company that includes the erection drawing. It should show both temporary and permanent bracing. To determine the truss company, there should be a tag at one end of each truss that has the manufacturer and order information. At the least, you can contact the manufacturer, send them some pics, and ask them to run some calcs. Probably won't be done for free but it shouldn't be too expensive. They should also be able to suggest alternate bracing that would allow you to remove the pieces that are currently in your way.

 

[volvo]

.
Not if you mind you building blowing over during the next major wind storm......H

 

[PGBioD]

Do the diagonal braces actually do anything after the building is up?

Yes, they do.

I'm not too concerned about the front one, but that back one is really going to foul up the attic space. Can I take it, and the 2x4's that connect the truss horizontal members, down?

Yes, if you replace them with different bracing.

When you remove the center brace, you will not need the 2x4's distributing the forces across multible joists. But since you are turning it into a floor you will need Xbracing down the middle under the floor OSB so the joists will not tend to roll.

If you leave the shorter braces behind the side verticles and cover ceiling and walls with OSB under the sheetrock, preferably on 2x3 or 2x4 furring strips tied to the end wall, you will be fine structurally, even stronger.

Will the inspector care?

Maybe.

Is this a finished garage already approved? And the attic space a later remodel with a separate permit?

 

[Bigger Hammer]

My thought would be that the front one (above the O.H. doors) is most likely required but the rear doesn't seem to be installed in a very strong position anyway.

Also, it looks to me like you are intending to sheet the short walls on either side of the trusses. I am not an engineer but I would assume you will gain a lot more rigidity and strength through some type of structural sheeting than those two 2x's could ever provide.
Ultimately though, check your plans and talk with your inspector.

 

[rinny_tin_tin]

Either to pass final frame, or for real-world structural rigidity? Here's what I'm asking about:

Do the diagonal braces actually do anything after the building is up? I'm not too concerned about the front one, but that back one is really going to foul up the attic space. Can I take it, and the 2x4's that connect the truss horizontal members, down? Will the inspector care?

The attic floor will have an OSB floor, and the attic walls and ceiling will be sheet rocked, if that matters.

Thanks!

Mark

They look like temporary bracing to me. The way the diag 2x4 are nailed in, they wouldn't support squat. The horizontal pieces atop the joists appear to be temp nailers to set the joists vertical... they also can go. Blocking can be used to prevent the joists from tipping and put in between the joists so they don' t interfere.

 

[larry4406]

As stated, you need the truss drawings to determine the required gable end bracing. Your inspector will (should) inspect the trusses per the drawings as part of your framing inspection. Modifications after inspection and you are out of site, out of mind, and on your own should problems occur.

With trusses, there is a requirement that the members be braced for lateral bracing (wind and snow loads). Think what happens to a yard stick when you push on the end - the middle buckles out and the stick won't take an appreciable compressive load. By bracing intermittently, you prevent this.

In your pictures, you can see that the diagonal members of the truss have a 2x4 nailed to them. This prevents the chord from buckling out of plane due to applied load.

The end gables are also braced for wind loads. This is typically done via the offensive diagonals you have described and another technique you don't have installed. On the houses I built, many of the end gables with shallow pitch roofs were spec'd by scabbing a vertical 2x4 to each of the gable truss verticals so as to make an "L" shape (the truss 2x4 is flat against the gable sheathing, the new 2x4 is perpendicular to the sheathing. In many cases, this was all that was required for shallow roof pitch. Other roof systems required the "L" bracing as well as the 45 degree diagonal bracing you have found offensive.

The 2x4 nailed to the top of the bottom chord (where your floor would be) is often also spec'd on the truss sheets for similar reasons as well as to ensure they truss stays on center for application of sheet rock. One could argue that removal and replacement via OSB subfloor would suffice. However, your bottom chords are 2x4's - I would be carefull about applying an OSB subfloor up there and putting items there. This style truss is not meant to take floor loads, plus you can't get R-30 insulation into the net 3.5" deep bay.

Hope this helps.

 

[VDubJoe]

Thats nothing compared to what i had to add down here in Fla for wind.
Had 3 diag on each end. One run 4' each side of the peak the entire length.
One run on bottom cord running 6 trusses in.

Joe

 

[ScaldedDog]

As stated, you need the truss drawings to determine the required gable end bracing. Your inspector will (should) inspect the trusses per the drawings as part of your framing inspection. Modifications after inspection and you are out of site, out of mind, and on your own should problems occur.

With trusses, there is a requirement that the members be braced for lateral bracing (wind and snow loads). Think what happens to a yard stick when you push on the end - the middle buckles out and the stick won't take an appreciable compressive load. By bracing intermittently, you prevent this.

In your pictures, you can see that the diagonal members of the truss have a 2x4 nailed to them. This prevents the chord from buckling out of plane due to applied load.

The end gables are also braced for wind loads. This is typically done via the offensive diagonals you have described and another technique you don't have installed. On the houses I built, many of the end gables with shallow pitch roofs were spec'd by scabbing a vertical 2x4 to each of the gable truss verticals so as to make an "L" shape (the truss 2x4 is flat against the gable sheathing, the new 2x4 is perpendicular to the sheathing. In many cases, this was all that was required for shallow roof pitch. Other roof systems required the "L" bracing as well as the 45 degree diagonal bracing you have found offensive.

The 2x4 nailed to the top of the bottom chord (where your floor would be) is often also spec'd on the truss sheets for similar reasons as well as to ensure they truss stays on center for application of sheet rock. One could argue that removal and replacement via OSB subfloor would suffice. However, your bottom chords are 2x4's - I would be carefull about applying an OSB subfloor up there and putting items there. This style truss is not meant to take floor loads, plus you can't get R-30 insulation into the net 3.5" deep bay.

Hope this helps.

Very much so!

I found the drawings, and they do - somewhat generically - indicate the need for the braces.

BTW, the attic trusses are rated for 40 psf live load, and 10 psf dead load. I'm not smart enough to know the difference...

Mark

 

[bigdav160]

Very much so!

I found the drawings, and they do - somewhat generically - indicate the need for the braces.

BTW, the attic trusses are rated for 40 psf live load, and 10 psf dead load. I'm not smart enough to know the difference...

Mark

Dead load is the weight of the structure it supports. Materials such as the boards, the plywood and the shingles. Dead load can be thought of as static.

Live load is everything else. These are the variable loads.

I'll agree with some posters above. That one long diagonal brace doesn't appear to be doing anything. Certainly, the one on the pony wall is nailed to every vertical member and is providing diagonal bracing. Is there another one of these behind the camera angle?

 

[Charles (in GA)]

My thought would be that the front one (above the O.H. doors) is most likely required but the rear doesn't seem to be installed in a very strong position anyway.

My feelings. The one over the door appears to be properly installed, well secured. The one in the rear of the building is very poorly attached at the lower end, like it was temporary. If drawings prove that it is not needed, I'd remove it, but if it is supposed to be there, I'd make it better, it doesn't look like it could carry much of a load as it is installed now.

Charles

 

[ScaldedDog]

Dead load is the weight of the structure it supports. Materials such as the boards, the plywood and the shingles. Dead load can be thought of as static.

Live load is everything else. These are the variable loads.

So, does that mean I can load this attic space to 40 psf? At 121sf (11x11), I could put my 4Runner up there! Seriously, that's far more weight capacity than I'd ever expect to need. Does the 10psf dead load come out of the 40psf live load, when calculating capacity?

I'll agree with some posters above. That one long diagonal brace doesn't appear to be doing anything. Certainly, the one on the pony wall is nailed to every vertical member and is providing diagonal bracing. Is there another one of these behind the camera angle?

Yes there is a diagonal brace on each pony wall. My temptation is to make these larger, and better installed, and remove the one in the center. As you guys have noticed, it's not attached very well, at all.

Thanks,

Mark

 

[scofo]

I think I would either sh-t can it or mount it like the short one to clear up the storage floor.

 

[racefab57]

Those were diagonal braces when they put up the building. That building is tied together at the top and sides with the other braces in the picture!!DR.

 

[buening]

In my opinion, the large braces are not needed. They are typically installed as temporary construction bracing but there are times when an engineer will spec bracing to be installed in high wind areas. Being that you are located in Colorado, unless you are on a mountain face that gets large winds the braces shouldn't be needed. If you are worried about it, leave the smaller braces in place towards the vertical truss members near the end of the span.

I didn't read all of the replies, but is this an attached garage? If so, there will be some rigidity provided to the trusses from the house. The roof sheathing is nailed to each truss and will provide a little more rigidity. Finally, there are what appears to be 2x6s attached to the lower chord of the trusses in the vaulted ceiling area over the garage doors. These boards will tie each truss together and provides additional stability.

For the loads, the 10psf dead load (construction materials) is not included in the 40psf live load. When we design the trusses, there are factors of safety that increase these loadings that account for accidental overloading or material/construction imperfections.

 

[Kevin54]

Around this area, those would be temporary braces to hold the end trusses plumb with the lower wall. After everything is sheeted, then they can be removed or left. Your area may be different and may require them for some reason.