Do I own the light pole in my yard?

[Darkness]

I bought my house a little over a year ago, and on the side of the driveway is a typical wood pole and LED "street" light. This is the kind of light you pay your power company a set monthly fee for rather than measuring usage. I consider this fee to be excessively high.

I want to install a light here, my own light, connected to my own power meter. I'm starting to wonder, who actually owns this pole? Obviously the power company installed it, but when service was shut off they never came back for it. It hasn't been powered in at least 5 years, maybe longer.

This pole is installed on my land, not in any sort of right of way. I did not ask to have it installed and I have no agreement regarding this pole with the power company. The previous owner didn't either. Given the fact that they seem to have abandoned it, and I never asked for it, does the pole still actually belong to the power company? I also see no ownership tags on it that you would typically see on power line poles.

If I could just snip the wires at the bottom of the pole it would be incredibly easy to wire it into a switch. (all power lines are underground here) Failing that, would there be anything illegal about me attaching my own new light fixture to the top of this pole?

Worst case scenario - am I allowed to demand they remove the pole or take a chainsaw to it myself? No matter what it is currently a useless eye sore right in front of my house.

 

[cvairwerks]

POCO owns it.

 

[Darkness]

POCO owns it.

According to who?

For what it's worth, the PoCo is a coop, which means I am actually part owner of it.

 

[cvairwerks]

If it has/had an unmetered light on it, or is upstream of a meter, it’s POCO’s in every system I’ve ever done business with since 1978. The only time I’ve seen a user own a pole is if it’s downstream of a meter. I’ve got 2 poles in the yard at one place I own. Both belong to the coop. Only one is in the utility easement. The other was set to provide the drop to the house. Under the engineering design rules at the time, the angle off the pole and the distance required, coupled with the drop angle required it. I could have them convert an underground feed, but then I’m out about 8 grand to have it done, along with rerouting water lines and removing an old septic system and the costs for doing that.

 

[Jim greengo]

Call the power co and ask them.

 

[BillK]

Any reason you don't want to just call the power company and ask them ??? That would seem to be the easiest way to get the answer.

Personally that is what I would have done first and I would certainly not be cutting any wires going to the pole without getting permission.

Also, do you know for a fact that the POCO installed it ?

Is there any possibility that the pole is actually wired to your house, maybe by a previous, previous owner ?

Do you know for a fact that it is not powered ? What if the light is just burned out ?

There has got to be a way to get the real answer besides guessing. That would save a lot of possible grief in the future.

 

[PelicanPines]

You DEFINITELY do NOT own the pole. Period.

I have two on my property.

 

[BillK]

You DEFINITELY do NOT own the pole. Period.

I dont think any of us can say that without the original poster finding out for sure. He says that the POCO "obviously" installed it but he does not know for certain. He also said there is no tag on the pole. So how does he know if maybe someone two owners ago installed the pole so they could have a light there ? Heck, the light bulb might just be burnt out ?

 

[Kevin Essiambre]

The only way you're going to find out is calling the POCO.

Where i am, the POCO may not own or maintain poles, primary lines, secondary lines, transformers, switch gear, etc. They sometimes get the client to have equipment installed by a private company (Electrical contractor) and just provide the hookup to the power grid, and the meter.

That could be a pole the POCO installed, or it might not be (I've seen plenty of poles without tags if there are no primary conductors on the pole).

Call them and ask. If its theirs, you could ask them to remove it, or instead of removing it, just let you install your own light on it.

 

[PelicanPines]

I dont think any of us can say that without the original poster finding out for sure. He says that the POCO "obviously" installed it but he does not know for certain. He also said there is no tag on the pole. So how does he know if maybe someone two owners ago installed the pole so they could have a light there ? Heck, the light bulb might just be burnt out ?

Actually we do know.

POCO has power on that pole... to power the discussed light.

POCO would be PAYING YOU to rent the pole if it was yours. PERIOD. It can not be owned by the homeowner for that simple reason. No need to look past that.

It was an innocuous paper I signed when I got the permits to build my house. The survey showed POCO installed one of their poles 5 feet too far into my property. I had to sign away all rights yada yada if i expected them to hook up power. It was an acknowledgement not a discussion or If i don't sign i could cause trouble... it was hey... the pole is 5 feet MORE into your property than expected... here, sign that you know.

 

[cybrdyke]

OP says that he pays them a monthly fee.
Not sure why there is a question who owns the pole...

 

[HoosierBuddy]

I too am curious why OP didn't direct this question to the people who will know the real answer instead of bunch of faceless internet posters?

Just call 'em up. You're lucky it's a co-op rather than a multi-state company. If you give them your name they will probably know right where you are talking about, the lady that answers the phone very well may even know you or at least know your neighbors. She'll have your answer within an hour. (If they are anything like our coop anyway). They may even send someone by to talk about your options with you.

BTW...for work, I had to move a pole for a pole mounted power meter two weeks ago and Duke made us pay for and set the pole. Once it was set to their specifications, they moved their meter onto it. So...every company is different...but that's an example of a pole that has wires to it that the poco doesn't own.

Phil

 

[mitusa]

If the light doesn't work, why would you have to pay a monthly fee???

Call them and discuss your situation...

 

[yeldogt]

I had to pay to both buy and install two poles .... but .... I'm not sure how the OP works around what he is trying to do. I'm going to make a guess that trying to run my power (after meter) back to the pole is going to be "no".

I'm sure the power company wants no strange situations should a problem occur and they have people out in the field.

The light fee includes -- the light/ maintenance / running costs ... pension cost (yes) ... My memory was we paid $12 per light .... per month.

The new LED lights use less power so the upfront cost is more to make up for the loss of fixed cost KWH fees

 

[Jim_No_Garage]

The POCO owns the pole. They will NOT take kindly to you installing a light on it. Our retail property has a power pole in the middle to bring in the overhead power. We had installed a 2 Mercury Vapor lights on the pole to light up the parking lot and the "yard". These lights were in place for 10+ years with no issues.

Fast forward to when the POCO realized that they could make money installing lights for businesses. The slimy salesman comes around and offers us a deal to place a light in a horrible location to illuminate our parking lot. I stupidly point out the lights and say that works for us. He takes some notes and disappears. Within 48 hours we have a POCO team on site saying the lights are not allowed and we need to remove them ASAP or they will cutoff our power. We disconnect the lights - they are still hanging on the pole to this day - and install different lights on the building itself.

You could probably hook up and use the light for some time - but at some point someone will notice and put an end to you using it.

Cheers

Jim

 

[Kaizen]

Yes poco owns pole. But the pole will not be reused so ask them to remove their light and abandon the pole to you. Then you can put up your light.
Depends on their policies.
Even if they have no record insist they send someone out to verify it’s not connected to their supply


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bigdav160]

I called my coop and they removed three poles I didn't want and relocated my service to another pole.........and waved the charges.

Then they asked if I wanted the old poles and I said 'sure'. "Stack them over there".

 

[bbbarracuda]

An awful lot of certainty of an issue that varies state to state. and POCO to POCO. No way to really know unless you call your POCO and ask them. (And there is a really good chance they don't know either)

 

[nh_yota]

Call the POCO and ask because there is no way for us to give you a valid answer over the internet. If you decide to do something with it make sure you have some sort of proof or paper trail so it doesn't come back to bite you in the ***.

 

[nadogail]

Call the Electrical Utility and ask them if it is their pole. If they say yes, then have them fix the light. You might inform them you will resume payment when the light shines.

Then stand by for heavy rolls.

 

[BillK]

Actually we do know.

POCO has power on that pole... to power the discussed light.

Not trying to be argumentative but how can you possibly deduce that from what the original poster has stated ?

 

[BillK]

OP says that he pays them a monthly fee.

Not really . . . he said

"This is the kind of light you pay your power company a set monthly fee for rather than measuring usage."

He did not say that he or the previous owner has been billed so he really does not know for a fact ? Not trying to be argumentative but there just are not enough facts to make a decision.

If indeed he has been billed than the entire post changes.

 

[yeldogt]

Not really . . . he said

"This is the kind of light you pay your power company a set monthly fee for rather than measuring usage."

He did not say that he or the previous owner has been billed so he really does not know for a fact ? Not trying to be argumentative but there just are not enough facts to make a decision.

If indeed he has been billed than the entire post changes.

He thinks the cost is high ..... so he must know -- the question is why was it turned off? is it really off?

 

[McFarmer]

I’ve always been told I own anything after the transformer and the pole it is mounted on.

 

[NUTTSGT]

If the OP is paying a monthly fee and it's noted/earmarked or itemized on his bill, it's highly likely the POCO owns it.

Call the POCO and talk to them, have you statement handy and know the date when it quit working. You may get a credit for it. Inquire about getting it fixed, replaced or abandoned so you can use it.

If you get the run around and no answer, call your state's PUC. That'll get the ball rolling but give the POCO the opportunity to make it right.

 

[Darkness]

My god...it's like half of you are just trying to start a fight.

The light is not on because I do not pay for it. Neither did the previous owner. I made that clear in my first post. The monthly fee is about double what the actual electrical usage would be. There is absolutely no question the power company installed the pole, but any agreement they had was with a person who is now dead and does not own this property, and they abandoned it at least 5 years ago. The way the power company disconnected it was to pull off the wire nuts hanging free at the top and leave it dangling, it's very obvious it's not just burned out. There are no transformers on the pole...just a small conduit going down and underground to a ground mounted transformer about 10 feet away.

And I have talked to the power company, in person. They could not be more incompetent. It's impossible to talk to anybody further than the office lady who collects money. She doesn't know anything about a pole, nor can she tell me who can. All they have is an emergency number for down lines. I can't even imagine what a nightmare it would be to install a new service...even getting the bill put in my name when I bought the house was a big ordeal!

I also don't really care what the power company "thinks", I'd like to know the actual legalities. To sum it up - if they do own the pole, it's still abandoned on somebody else's property without permission for years. If that happens with anything else, it usually becomes yours.

I think I'm just going to take a chainsaw to it. If they don't like it too bad. I tried. I didn't give them permission to put it there or sign anything and no documents/easements came up when the house was purchased. Just to give you an idea of how incompetent the power company is, I've invested more than $15,000 on solar panels and batteries so I can be totally off grid and not have to deal with them within a few months. They only serve about 20,000 people in total - mom and pop have no business running a power company.

 

[PelicanPines]

Not trying to be argumentative but how can you possibly deduce that from what the original poster has stated ?

on the side of the driveway is a typical wood pole and LED "street" light.

He states... it's there...

Yea... chain saw it... sounds great.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Nobody was trying to start a fight, they were debating because you weren't clear in your first post.


It's clearly obvious you are going to do what you want, not listen to any advice to the questions you asked while seeking information.


If you want to chainsaw it down, sounds like that's what you're going to do. Please don't get yourself electrocuted in the process nor be surprised when they bill you for their pole.

 

[shaeff]

My god...it's like half of you are just trying to start a fight.

The light is not on because I do not pay for it. Neither did the previous owner. I made that clear in my first post. The monthly fee is about double what the actual electrical usage would be. There is absolutely no question the power company installed the pole, but any agreement they had was with a person who is now dead and does not own this property, and they abandoned it at least 5 years ago. The way the power company disconnected it was to pull off the wire nuts hanging free at the top and leave it dangling, it's very obvious it's not just burned out. There are no transformers on the pole...just a small conduit going down and underground to a ground mounted transformer about 10 feet away.

And I have talked to the power company, in person. They could not be more incompetent. It's impossible to talk to anybody further than the office lady who collects money. She doesn't know anything about a pole, nor can she tell me who can. All they have is an emergency number for down lines. I can't even imagine what a nightmare it would be to install a new service...even getting the bill put in my name when I bought the house was a big ordeal!

I also don't really care what the power company "thinks", I'd like to know the actual legalities. To sum it up - if they do own the pole, it's still abandoned on somebody else's property without permission for years. If that happens with anything else, it usually becomes yours.

I think I'm just going to take a chainsaw to it. If they don't like it too bad. I tried. I didn't give them permission to put it there or sign anything and no documents/easements came up when the house was purchased. Just to give you an idea of how incompetent the power company is, I've invested more than $15,000 on solar panels and batteries so I can be totally off grid and not have to deal with them within a few months. They only serve about 20,000 people in total - mom and pop have no business running a power company.

Listen, this advice is worth what you paid for it.

Call 811, tell them you're going to dig a trench near that pole on your property. It's a free service. Someone will come out from the power company and mark the location of any underground electric lines in paint. If you have natural gas, someone from the LDC will come and do the same, etc...

While said person is there, ask them about the pole.

All that is free of charge, and honestly, unless you know where 100% of your utilities run, you should ALWAYS call 811 BEFORE digging anywhere.

 

[Arkansas COB]

Yep they got an eye on that pole now. Probably long forgot about it until you brought it to their attention.

Good Luck but I wouldnt cut it down. Around here even if you crash into one and damage it you have to pay for it.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

MY GOSH, some people's reading comprehension absolutely *****...

OP says that he pays them a monthly fee.
Not sure why there is a question who owns the pole...

no where did he say he pays for the monthly fee. try reading it again.

He said the fee was excessive. how does that equate to him paying the fee especially when many PoCos publish their rates online?

He thinks the cost is high ..... so he must know -- the question is why was it turned off? is it really off?

Not really.

My local coop PoCo publishes ALL of their rates (called tariffs) on their website INCLUDING the monthly cost of a yard light.

Since the OP may have read the pricing online, how does that mean he pays the monthly fee?

 

[cvairwerks]

And I have talked to the power company, in person. They could not be more incompetent. It's impossible to talk to anybody further than the office lady who collects money. She doesn't know anything about a pole, nor can she tell me who can. All they have is an emergency number for down lines. I can't even imagine what a nightmare it would be to install a new service...even getting the bill put in my name when I bought the house was a big ordeal!

Don't screw with the front desk, call and ask for engineering.... BTW you wack it down, and from the description, you will be screwing with live lines on the ground. When POCO comes out and sees the pole cut, they will investigate.

 

[dave*99]

Listen, this advice is worth what you paid for it.

Call 811, tell them you're going to dig a trench near that pole on your property. It's a free service. Someone will come out from the power company and mark the location of any underground electric lines in paint. If you have natural gas, someone from the LDC will come and do the same, etc...

While said person is there, ask them about the pole.

All that is free of charge, and honestly, unless you know where 100% of your utilities run, you should ALWAYS call 811 BEFORE digging anywhere.

In many parts of the USA the dig safe 811 program is contracted to a mark out company. They send 1 truck to mark out the electric, gas etc. If that's how it is done in your area, you won't see a person from the POCO.

 

[pbon]

I would not assume abandoned property law applies or that the contract expired upon your disconnect order and the power company property reverted to you. As others have noted, there may be special laws that apply to utilities since the government regulates much of the power grid. I guess you could argue you are not disconnecting a utility line without a permit or license because the power company already disconnected it, but I assume the line is still connected to the pole and the power company typically owns and is responsible for the lines running into your property. You could try researching your state laws or call your public utility commission. The other thing you could do is take a look in the registry of deeds to see whether the power company recorded an easement given by the PO. This would have come up in the title search when you bought the house so maybe you already know the answer.

 

[cvairwerks]

I dealt with easement problems on one of our places. Went to prep for a building and found a buried 7200 volt feeder running right thru where the building needed to go. No easement recorded anywhere we looked. Got with the POCO engineering group and after 5 weeks of searching all the documents covering the subdivision, an easement was found. Easement was granted under the developer's personal name, a blanket location of as buried and it covered about half the subdivision, with no platting references. Only references were a pole number and a transformer number. Turned into a real mess for me, several other property owners and the POCO. Took their legal people about another year to clear it all up and fix everything. By the time it was over, they found probably a dozen more done like that from the same developer.

I think a bunch of property owners and a water district and the POCO finally sued him out of business.

 

[Shovelhead]

You better put a meter on that wire at the top of the pole and check voltage.
The conduit is coming from the UG XFMR, wire tapped off secondary side and that’s where the night lighter is being fed from.
It’s ahead of your meter, reason for the same monthly charge.

If they only removed the connection at the top of the pole and didn’t bother to open up the UG XFMR and cut loose the feed to that conduit, well, you seem to know quite a bit so saw yer *** off.

 

[Kevin Essiambre]

Please take a Before and after picture when you cut it down.

Or at least a before picture for us to see.

 

[nh_yota]

Please take a Before and after picture when you cut it down.

Or at least a before picture for us to see.

Better yet, get the whole thing on video.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

You better put a meter on that wire at the top of the pole and check voltage.
The conduit is coming from the UG XFMR, wire tapped off secondary side and that’s where the night lighter is being fed from.
It’s ahead of your meter, reason for the same monthly charge.

If they only removed the connection at the top of the pole and didn’t bother to open up the UG XFMR and cut loose the feed to that conduit, well, you seem to know quite a bit so saw yer *** off.

he never said he pays for it.

in fact further up he said he DOESNT pay for it....

 

[nh_yota]

The fee for the light will always cost more than the actual usage because it covers installation and maintenance of the light as well as some extra profit for the POCO. After all, you're not the one getting up on a latter and changing the bulb.