Do I Really Need a VFD?

[Sheriff Roscoe]

Hey guys; I'm looking at an old drill press for my home workshop that needs a new motor. The simplest solution of course is to pick up a used single-phase motor.

However, a 3-phase motor with a Teco (or similar) VFD has me intrigued. Had to read up on 3-phase and watch Youtube videos as well to understand the differences and benefits.

As cool as the super-slow speed and reverse is with a VFD setup, I'm left wondering what the real-world benefit is for my purposes? I'm a "weekend warrior" type shop user (not ********) that enjoys working with wood and sometimes metal. Will a 3-phase setup allow me to do the job better or perhaps more efficient? On the flip side, I love to tinker and a VFD would allow that...even it wasn't overly useful for my circumstances

 

[Techie1961]

You'll be able to set the proper cutting speed for your tools and they will last longer. A variable speed drill is a dream to work with. With reversing, you can use spiral point taps and do tapping on the drill press. It takes a bit of practice but I do all me tapping with spiral points and a machine. You have to play with the tightening of the chuck to get the right slippage. Or, you can buy a tapping head. I prefer to get a feel for them and chuck them. I have tapped probably many thousands of holes though.

 

[larry_g]

Handy to have a variable speed drill press. In my opinion I would want to have a drill press that is heavy enough to take advantage of the speed range. Being able to turn the slow speed to drill a 3/4" hole in steel would be a waste on a lot of the lightweight Craftsman and smaller Buffalo machines. Get into a machine that has the strength to handle the big stuff then a variable speed could be taken care of on the low end with the ability to overspeed the motor some to deal with the wood working.

For the fun factor, yea go for it.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[rsanter]

No you don't.
But it would be nice

How big of a motor? Drill press?
The other option is to find a junker treadmill and use the DC motor and controller from it

Bob

 

[zkling]

Really Need? No. What HP motor and machine are we talking about here?

 

[alan camby]

I have a 1hp VFD Pomermatic that I rebuilt. I think it is the berries.


Would you run it on 120vac?
If you have GFI in the garage or shop, it will trip it every time.

Here is mine.
http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=190236

 

[Outlawmws]

What is the pulley setup on the DP? 4 sheaves and no Jackshaft? fine for wood but if you want to do steel and go large holes then you need slower speeds and the VFD is a great solution.

Another option that I did is a treadmill motor. I can slow it to barely moving and can't stop it by hand. or I can crank it and go at least 2X faster that the original 4 sheave setup.

Didn't you just PU a laser tach? You'd be set for either solution.

If the DP has the jackshaft, (16 speeds @ 4 sheaves each) then the single phase swap is a good solution.

 

[Sheriff Roscoe]

The DP is a 1950's era Craftsman benchtop unit. Is this type of press heavy-duty enough to warrant a VFD setup?

BTW, he's asking $75 or obo for it. Thought about offering $50. Does this seem reasonable?

I like the treadmill idea too...just have to find a spare tread mill laying around

Yes, I do have a laser tach. Would come in handy for various setups.

 

[Outlawmws]

Is that missing a motor entirely? (I don't see one in the shadow...) If so then yes, make the lower offer (Maybe even lower), and make sure the spindle isn't sloppy loose. bearings can be replaced, but that one needs a full restore after an E-bath...

What size if the column? if 2-3/4, its the better 100/150 series, if 2-1/4, its the smaller lighter 80, and worth even less... (I'm thinking the larger at a WAG; Front top pulley S/B 2"...)

If you go treadmill here is my conversion thread: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=159224

 

[zkling]

That is alot of oxidation.

 

[Sheriff Roscoe]

Picked up the Craftsman DP for $60. Fair enough I suppose. The guy said it was his grandfathers and estimated he bought it new in 1951.

It has the 2 3/4" column; the motor plate is there but no motor. No slop in the spindle; spins by hand and up/down freely.

It will definately need a bath of some sort...lots of surface rust and grime underneath. I'll have to look into the popular electolysis thread going on right now

Lotta love in this thread for a VFD! Will be keeping an eye out for a 3-phase setup unless a single-phase happens along at a bargain price.

 

[Outlawmws]

watch for treadmills in the free section of CL, and/or hit up your local Freecycle group

 

[Outlawmws]

ps: better pics? If the table can tilt, then its a 100 (earlier) if not, then its a 150 (later)

 

[fatherof4]

Hey guys; I'm looking at an old drill press for my home workshop that needs a new motor. The simplest solution of course is to pick up a used single-phase motor.

However, a 3-phase motor with a Teco (or similar) VFD has me intrigued. Had to read up on 3-phase and watch Youtube videos as well to understand the differences and benefits.

As cool as the super-slow speed and reverse is with a VFD setup, I'm left wondering what the real-world benefit is for my purposes? I'm a "weekend warrior" type shop user (not ********) that enjoys working with wood and sometimes metal. Will a 3-phase setup allow me to do the job better or perhaps more efficient? On the flip side, I love to tinker and a VFD would allow that...even it wasn't overly useful for my circumstances

You have 3 phase electric at your home? You lucky *******.

 

[zkling]

You have 3 phase electric at your home? You lucky *******.

A VFD will simulate a 3 phase output from a single phase input. I think that is what he was implying.

 

[Outlawmws]

on this ^^^

 

[Sheriff Roscoe]

Yep...apparently one of the benefits of the Teco FM50 VFD (and I'd imagine other brands as well) is taking residential single phase 120v and outputting 3 phase power.

Already checking for free treadmills in my area.

Will get some pics up of the ol' girl soon!

 

[Sheriff Roscoe]

watch for treadmills in the free section of CL, and/or hit up your local Freecycle group

Been watching for free treadmills...just missed one yesterday

Of course there are tons of treadmill controllers and motors on Ebay but have heard the two need to be matched. If I found a motor and controller cheap enough separately (or together for that matter), what should I specifcally be looking for in layman terms?

Also, what hp motor is ideal for the older Craftsman 100/150 DP? Is more always better?

Certainly haven't ruled out the 3-phase motor/VFD setup either.

 

[Sheriff Roscoe]

Just got the camera back so here are some pics. I think I have my work cut out for me on this one

Any info you guys can provide relative to the press itself (for what it's worth the model # is 103.23131) or on restoration are more than welcomed. Been reading and watching the electrolysis process so should be good there. I'm all ears!

Once the electrolysis/restoration process actually starts, I'll start a new thread.

 

[svtride]

However, a 3-phase motor with a Teco (or similar) VFD has me intrigued. Had to read up on 3-phase and watch Youtube videos as well to understand the differences and benefits.

As cool as the super-slow speed and reverse is with a VFD setup, I'm left wondering what the real-world benefit is for my purposes? I'm a "weekend warrior" type shop user (not ********) that enjoys working with wood and sometimes metal. Will a 3-phase setup allow me to do the job better or perhaps more efficient? On the flip side, I love to tinker and a VFD would allow that...even it wasn't overly useful for my circumstances

I did sorta like you. Looking for a project to learn something new. I found on Craigslist this old Delta Rockwell 19" DP that had a washing machine motor on it. Never tinkered with 3 phase motors before and they seemed to be readily avail and cheap versus a 1 phase 110v motor. I restored the DP and a 3 phase motor I found on Fleabay then researched what it would take to put a VFD system together. Something new to tinker with.

I built the enclosure support bracket and found components on Ebay. 110vac 1 phase in and 220vac 3 phase out to DP. Internet ordered the Teco for a 1HP size motor. Lots of programming options within the Teco. Works real slick. I can vary speed by turning the potentiometer on the panel. I have yet to move the belt on the 6 step pulley. I could not have put the system together without the help of a couple GJ members that helped me with wiring and then programing the VFD. Overall, a good learning experience plus I got an awesome DP. Makes you not want to consider going back to 110v power tools.

Before:

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After:

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VFD set up:

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VFD:

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[Outlawmws]

Sheriff, Tilting table makes it a model 100. (late 40's - mid to late 50's) Assuming the top tag does say Craftsman. (I think a few Dunlap's used the oval logo)

That should clean up fine. Table is clean? no divots? (certainly no arc of shame!)

You may need a deeper table or bench though! Or you can scrounge up 5-6' of 2-3/4 OD tubing and make it a floor stander...

 

[Outlawmws]

Svtride: that is a terrific restore, no; upgrade and embellishment of a great old DP!

 

[Sheriff Roscoe]

Wow...wow...amd wow again svt ride. That Delta-Rockwell is a thing of beauty! Nice job! I like the "clean" VFD box setup too.

Thanks for the journey/process too. Sounds like you went through exactly what I'm contemplating now with a 3-phase/VFD setup. A treadmill DC motor/controller setup is high on the list too. It may depend on which good deal presents itself first. I'm in no real hurry though as there is plenty to do before adding power to it

 

[Sheriff Roscoe]

Sheriff, Tilting table makes it a model 100. (late 40's - mid to late 50's) Assuming the top tag does say Craftsman. (I think a few Dunlap's used the oval logo)

That should clean up fine. Table is clean? no divots? (certainly no arc of shame!)

You may need a deeper table or bench though! Or you can scrounge up 5-6' of 2-3/4 OD tubing and make it a floor stander...

Thanks for the info Outlaw. The tag is Craftsman. The table is for the most part clean...the center hole looks slightly "ovalish" but certainly no swiss-cheese arc of shame

Was the 150 considered a nicer press than the 100 or vice versa? I don't know what the differences are other than the tilting table you mentioned.

Yes, a longer column is in the back of my mind. Not a priority but not completely off the radar either.

 

[Sheriff Roscoe]

Was the 150 considered a nicer press than the 100 or vice versa? I don't know what the differences are other than the tilting table you mentioned.

Just found the answer to this in a recent thread. Other than the tilting table, Outlaw mentioned there were a few cosmetic differences between the 100 and 150.

 

[svtride]

Svtride: that is a terrific restore, no; upgrade and embellishment of a great old DP!

Wow...wow...amd wow again svt ride. That Delta-Rockwell is a thing of beauty! Nice job! I like the "clean" VFD box setup too.

Thanks a lot for the feedback. Means a lot from this peer group.

If it had not been for guys like you on GJ, I would not have been able accomplish it. The info and free help offers is real motivating.

 

[Sheriff Roscoe]

Hey guys; been away for a while but came across the following motor/VFD setup for my Craftsman 100 DP project:

A Fincor ACX motor controller and 1/3hp Baldor motor for $95.

Voltage on motor says "208-230/460". I only have 110v in the workshop but wiring a 220v line would be easy enough. Do I need to though with the VFD?

Thoughts on this setup and asking price?

 

[Outlawmws]

Roscoe, it depends on the VFD. You need to look at the input specs/requirements. (should be in that instruction manual)

 

[Sheriff Roscoe]

Thanks Outlaw. The VFD is model ACX2003. I was able to find the following specification sheet for it. Looking at the Table 1, I think it would work but if someone could take a glance, it would be very much appreciated as I'm no electrical genius...just enough to make me dangerous

http://www.bostongear.com/pdf/spec_sheets/ACX.pdf

The motor is model M3534. From Baldors website: .33HP,1725RPM,3PH,60HZ,56,3413M,TEFC,F1

Does this setup look like a viable option?

 

[larry_g]

A quick look at the spec sheet says it will work and the pair are matched. Note on the first page though says;
"NOTES:
(1) Optional voltage doubler (2XV) required for 115VAC operation"

So if you want to run at low voltage you will need the 2XV option on the VFD. I can't make out if that is an add-on option or if it has to be ordered with the VFD from the factory.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Sheriff Roscoe]

Good catch Larry. I checked with the seller and the VFD is a 220v unit. The voltage doubler (2XV) is sold as a separate item to use with 110/115v...and not cheap .

However, I have a dedicated 220v line passing overhead in the basement workshop that is used for a stick welder in the garage. There's already a junction box in the workshop on this line where the DP 100 will be. Guess it wouldn't be a huge deal to tap the line and run wire to the VFD.

 

[gearhead1]

I bought a Bridgeport mill with a 3 ph motor and a solid state converter. When the solid state converter quit, i bought a Hitachi VFD and installed it. Wow, does that thing rock! I put the belts on closest to 1:1 then use the VFD for speed. I love it, definitely the way to go, no regrets.