Do I run an electrical line here?

[jpcjguy]

So I am putting in a second driveway tp where a detached garage will go eventually. Looking at a 400' run. I am wondering if it makes sense to drop an electrical line down before all the gravel is installed. 12-3 UF-B?
Here is a pic of the current state.
Not sure what I might need it for down the road (lamppost, obnoxious sign - , etc.) , but it sure would beat having to rent a trencher later.....
What are y'alls thoughts?

 

[Itsjustdirt]

I’d put conduit, the wire you think you need and a damn strong pull tape in there. I’d also oversize a size if cost permits

 

[jpcjguy]

I’d put conduit, the wire you think you need and a damn strong pull tape in there. I’d also oversize a size if cost permits

What size conduit? I guess I still would have to trench down a ways.I assume 12-3 would be ok, that is a long run though.....
Wondering if this is worth it....

 

[HoosierMark]

Put one or two 4 inch schedule 80 conduits under the drive way area. If you put in say 40 feet of each it will give you plenty of room to put wires thru. If you think about it put some rope thru the tubes before hand and then you can pull whatever wires you want under the driveway in the future. As soon as you trench and put wire in, something will change. You also should consider putting a deeper pipe in to allow for pushing a water line thru. The pipe will be cheap and give you a lot of options in the future. What about a natural gas line? You could put a pipe in to shove that line thru also.

 

[jpcjguy]

Put one or two 4 inch schedule 80 conduits under the drive way area. If you put in say 40 feet of each it will give you plenty of room to put wires thru. If you think about it put some rope thru the tubes before hand and then you can pull whatever wires you want under the driveway in the future. As soon as you trench and put wire in, something will change. You also should consider putting a deeper pipe in to allow for pushing a water line thru. The pipe will be cheap and give you a lot of options in the future. What about a natural gas line? You could put a pipe in to shove that line thru also.

whoa! I am going the length of the driveway - not across - so I am looking at 400 feet or so from the garage panel to road! That is about 2K in conduit!!!!

 

[larry_g]

Not sure what I might need it for down the road (lamppost, obnoxious sign - , etc.) ,

At this point I would be considering solar powered lamps.... or low voltage.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[ford33]

I would bury conduit across the driveway at several places. Saves you from having to blast you way under the driveway later.

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

whoa! I am going the length of the driveway - not across - so I am looking at 400 feet or so from the garage panel to road! That is about 2K in conduit!!!!

If that's the case- yeah, a 12/3 in a trench and call it a day. If you need more than that you'll just have to run that down the other side of the drive!

 

[jpcjguy]

I would bury conduit across the driveway at several places. Saves you from having to blast you way under the driveway later.

that is not a bad idea. just drop a couple 20' across at various points.

 

[HoosierMark]

So if your not crossing the driveway then why can you not trench along it at anytime. I thought you were trying to avoid crossing i?

 

[jpcjguy]

If that's the case- yeah, a 12/3 in a trench and call it a day. If you need more than that you'll just have to run that down the other side of the drive!

yeah - two 250' rolls of 12/3 UF-B from amazon will run about $250.
now i dread trenching another 10-12" in the clay under the 6-8" of gravel. fun!

 

[jpcjguy]

So if your not crossing the driveway then why can you not trench along it at anytime. I thought you were trying to avoid crossing i?

just thinking ahead and not digging up 400' of lawn at a later date. Figure if I put it under the driveway now, saves the hassle of any work later.

 

[sberry]

I would be tempted to find 500 ft roll of 6 alum if I had my heart set on this.

 

[Marctrees]

12/3 won't do much more than a few lamps at that distance.

And.. I don't understand the 3 over just 12/2 anyway.

What does that gain ?


Basically, with no real future need, I would do nothing...


Except as mentioned.. maybe a small culvert crossing somewhere for future.


Also as said.. with expense of that distance, solar lamps for driveway entrance in future.

Marc

 

[Marctrees]

OP mention of 12/3 leads me astray of his other comment...

"second driveway to where a detached garage will go eventually."

If there will be that, I think that's what sberry was thinking about.

Marc

 

[rburke65]

I’d run some 1 1/2” pvc conduit and junction boxes every 100’ or more often. That’s a long way....400’. If you wanted to install a p7ll string it might same you some work later. PVC conduit is inexpensive.

 

[matt_i]

Also needed to be included are the 3 spools of THHN wire, and a voltage drop calculation to size the wire and make sure you have enough voltage at the end to do what you want.

I would listen to the people advising to cross the drive in several places with capped PVC. You can always trench UF direct bury wire, but crossing the drive is going to either cut it or undermine it, none of which are good choices given the likely investment.

 

[Hot Rod Grampa]

If I read the op correctly, you want to put the power under the driveway, not the lawn. I believe you must run schedule 80 under any driveway at a minimum of 18" depth. Compared to the cost of schedule 40' I would be tempted to run along the edge, cross under the driveway as suggested and plan on a mimimum 10/3 wire. That way you could run lights on one leg and a sign on the other but you still need to do load calculations to be certain. Could be expensive guess if you are wrong.

 

[66Caprice]

How close is the nearest power pole? If there is a pole closer to the new site you could have a whole new service just for the garage dropped right to it. You would just have 2 power bills is all.

 

[CJ7VFR]

12/3 won't do much more than a few lamps at that distance.

And.. I don't understand the 3 over just 12/2 anyway.

What does that gain ?......Marc

Running x/3 UF-B, or separate conductors in conduit, would give him the ability to have a MWBC (multi wire branch circuit) out to the building he says will be out there some day. This will allow him the option to have lights on one hot wire and receptacles or something else on the other.

You may want to consider running a line out to the new garage location that would allow you to install a sub-panel. This will allow expansion of the electrical requirements you may have in the future, such as an air compressor, tools, lights, receptacles, pumps and what-not.

It would cost more, but it would be one-and-done, and you would never have to worry about it again.

Jim

 

[xyster101]

I have a 550ft driveway and rented a trencher to lay wire to the road. I put 12/2 UF wire in the trench. I use it for Halloween and Christmas lights. The trencher was $500 to rent.
Call local electrical supply houses and get the wire in one length. I used 2 rolls of 250ft and 1 roll of 50ft from HD which costs more then an electrical supply house which I did not know about when I did it.

If I did it again I would go 12/3 and have a driveway crossing conduit. Then you can have lights on both sides and 2 circuits.

 

[jpcjguy]

I have a 550ft driveway and rented a trencher to lay wire to the road. I put 12/2 UF wire in the trench. I use it for Halloween and Christmas lights. The trencher was $500 to rent.
Call local electrical supply houses and get the wire in one length. I used 2 rolls of 250ft and 1 roll of 50ft from HD which costs more then an electrical supply house which I did not know about when I did it.

If I did it again I would go 12/3 and have a driveway crossing conduit. Then you can have lights on both sides and 2 circuits.

Thanks everybody for the excellent feedback. Sorry if I was not clear in the beginning - this is not wire to feed the garage, it is as xyster101 said - christmas lights, lamp post, etc. nothing of heavy power needs. Based on what Hot Rod Grampa said about needing schedule 80 under the driveway, I think I will just leave it be and rent a trencher one day if it is needed and run along the driveway.
I was thinking that if I could drop 12-2, 12-3 in a small trench in the driveway footprint before the gravel goes down now is the time to do it. but with needing conduit and all that, I think I will pass since there is no defined need at this point. Worst case, I run extension cords for the short time I need something down there (holiday lights).
I do like the idea of running a couple of perpendicular conduits across at various points just in case - cheap and easy right now.

 

[Marctrees]

I am aware of the mwbc or switchleg possibilitys w 3 cond.

I'm mainly saying he won't be able to load much w #12 @ 400'


If OP wants to get more solid advice, he needs to give more info.

Marc

 

[Marctrees]

I was typing while OP posted # 22.

Marc

 

[Marctrees]

"I do like the idea of running a couple of perpendicular conduits across at various points just in case - cheap and easy right now."

From what I understand, I agree w that.

And, again, from what I understand, I would run 2"..

That will give the option of UP TO 2" in the future, or to use just as a chaise tunnel and slide smaller pipe through if just running a small ckt.

If 90's are needed at ends, stub up above grade and glue on caps... can always cut them off and install pull boxes on stubs in future

Marc

 

[GrayFlattop]

For a 400' run, voltage drop due to resistance becomes a factor. 12 gauge copper wire that distance at a full 20Amp load means you'll be seeing well under 100V at the end. At a 10 amp load, you'll be down under 110V. Honestly, 10 gauge wire would be the bare minimum I would consider - and that would just be for basic lighting. For a full 20 Amps, you really need to run MUCH heavier wire to deliver full voltage

Here's a handy voltage drop calculator: https://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html

If you do plan on running conduit that length, pulling that distance will be a factor You would need multiple pull boxes along the way.

 

[kbs2244]

I go with the solar idea.
Even currently it will light a sign overnight.
(They use it on the InterState construction trailer/signs)
And the future is only going to get brighter.

 

[dreamingmuscle]

The way I'm reading the OP is that you want to toss some wire in the mud and cover it in 6 inches of gravel. Call it good, then drive over said gravel and wire on a daily basis. Yeah that'll work!!! NOT!!!!!!

It needs to be at least a foot under ground for it own protection.

Also 400 feet is a long way for 12 guage wire, shoot thats aways for 8 guage.

 

[dreamingmuscle]

whoa! I am going the length of the driveway - not across - so I am looking at 400 feet or so from the garage panel to road! That is about 2K in conduit!!!!

https://www.lowes.com/pd/JM-Eagle-Common-2-in-Actual-2-06-In-Non-Metallic-Pvc-10-ft-Conduit/3129573


2 inch by 10 foot pcs @ $8.20. 400ft ÷ 10ft is 40pcs. 40 × $8.20 = $328.00 + misc elbows

Might be able get it cheaper at a supply house in 20 foot lenths.

 

[jpcjguy]

The way I'm reading the OP is that you want to toss some wire in the mud and cover it in 6 inches of gravel. Call it good, then drive over said gravel and wire on a daily basis. Yeah that'll work!!! NOT!!!!!!

It needs to be at least a foot under ground for it own protection.

Also 400 feet is a long way for 12 guage wire, shoot thats aways for 8 guage.

Yeah - that is why I am backing off that idea.

 

[jpcjguy]

https://www.lowes.com/pd/JM-Eagle-Common-2-in-Actual-2-06-In-Non-Metallic-Pvc-10-ft-Conduit/3129573


2 inch by 10 foot pcs @ $8.20. 400ft ÷ 10ft is 40pcs. 40 × $8.20 = $328.00 + misc elbows

Might be able get it cheaper at a supply house in 20 foot lenths.

That is not too bad - someone mentioned needing schedule 80 under a driveway - that get's pricey

 

[TractorJeff]

My neighbor had a battery solar gate system which worked fine for the first year but the second winter took its Toll on the solar panel and battery.
When lightning took out the Gas Line and Solar Gate System he found out that trenching from the house wouldn't work as the Gas and Telephone were buried crisscrossing the driveway all the way to his house.
Consequently a separate Utility supplied lighting service was put in that powers the Gate and Security Light plus Christmas decorations. The cost is amazingly low for the Utility install which surprising plus a really low monthly charge. (Like a Street Light)
If I was the OP, I would run the distance with 10/3 figuring a 10 amp max draw for a Gate and Light.

 

[Kevin54]

If you're going to have a future garage 400' away, put down large enough cable to handle what you want in the garage. Then pull back off of that for your lights.

 

[Aceman]

If you don't know what you're doing later, you would be wasting money guessing at what you need to run right now.

Rent a trencher later and put in EXACTLY what you need, EXACTLY where you need it, when that time comes.

 

[ard]

what would the point of a 400 ft run of 12/3 be???????????????? its useless wire. IMO

basically you could switch a light bulb. pointless.

Drop in 2 conduits- one 2 inch sch 40, one 1 inch for communications, internet.

putting any wire in now is just pointless.

IN THE FUTURE, you can dig it up and put in pull boxes if needed. or put them in now. 150ft pulls perhaps?

 

[TractorJeff]

what would the point of a 400 ft run of 12/3 be???????????????? its useless wire. IMO

basically you could switch a light bulb. pointless.

Drop in 2 conduits- one 2 inch sch 40, one 1 inch for communications, internet.

putting any wire in now is just pointless.

IN THE FUTURE, you can dig it up and put in pull boxes if needed. or put them in now. 150ft pulls perhaps?

OP stated in his first post it is for a Light!

 

[CJ7VFR]

OP stated in his first post it is for a Light!

He said this in his first post to start the tread:

So I am putting in a second driveway tp where a detached garage will go eventually. Looking at a 400' run. I am wondering if it makes sense to drop an electrical line down before all the gravel is installed. 12-3 UF-B?...

And in the same post said this:

Not sure what I might need it for down the road (lamppost, obnoxious sign - , etc.) ,

This is what caused most of the confusion about whether this line will be for powering a future garage, or for something else like a light, because of the 12/3 UF-B wire size.

Most people building a garage will require enough power to run tools, garage door openers, and stuff like that, which would require more than just a single 12/3 wire run over 400 feet.

People are just giving their opinions/options to the OP so he could do both things!

Jim

 

[jpcjguy]

Yes - sorry about the confusion - I thought I cleared that up in post #22. This is NOT for powering the garage- but actually coming from the garage to power small stuff like a lamppost, holiday lights, etc.
I think the best idea is to wait and see if the need arises. I can always rent the trencher and run next to the driveway and drop in wire down the road.