Do Not Swap "some" Control Modules

[torqueman2002]

The following is used with permission from GM.

Do Not Swap Control Modules
By Blog Post on February 2, 2012 5:20 PM Do not swap control modules. It's a word of caution that bears repeating as more new GM models are introduced with the Global Architecture electrical system.


These models now include:
•2012 Sonic and Verano (and, in Canada, Orlando)
•2011-2012 Cruze and Volt
•2010-2012 LaCrosse, Regal, SRX, Camaro, Equinox and Terrain


The Global Architecture electrical system does not allow control modules to be swapped between vehicles. Swapping control modules will result in a no start condition on both vehicles and will damage both modules due to the new vehicle security code protocol (environment).


Do not swap the following control modules:
•Engine Control Module (ECM)
•Radio
•Body Control Module (BCM)
•Electronic Brake Control Module (EBCM)
•Sensing and Diagnostic Module (SDM)
•Transmission Control Module (TCM)
•Electronic Climate Control (HVAC)
•Electric Power Steering
•Hybrid Powertrain Control Module
•Vehicle Communication Interface Module
•Instrument Panel Cluster


- Thanks to Ernest H.
© 2012 General Motors. All rights reserved.

 

[trboxman]

I actually like the intent of the security code protocol, however I think it'll largely be useless because there will be a way to reset or reprogram the modules and the info on how will escape into the wild. All it will wind up being is a minor inconvenience.

 

[Kev442]

Sounds like a ploy for GM to capture the module market. I expect there will be a crack for them out by oh.....

Tomorrow.

 

[torqueman2002]

This also addresses the growing number of warranty claims for damaged vehicles that have used aftermarket programmers to increase power, torque, and in many cases emissions.

The direction is towards detecting re-programming events and controller swapping, by storing information in different controllers on the vehicle network.

I don't see GM heading towards Volvo's aftermarket serviceability model - only Volvo dealers can reprogram modules, however.

Personally, I see it as a PITA for the DYI guy. Right now I have access to a Tech 2 and GDS2 plus the service information-GSA; I'm not looking forward to loosing that when I retire.

I will console myself by working on my MGB and 84 Vette.

 

[MattT]

All it will wind up being is a minor inconvenience.

It'll likely be a minor inconvenience for professional thieves but a major PITA and expense for the owners of these contraptions and the Indy shops in a few years.

Much more of this **** and we'll be to the point where the cheapest way to fix their overcomplicated junk is to gut all the OEM **** and rewire it. My buddy is already contemplating that on his mid 2,000s gm 3/4 ton because it is infested with electrical gremlins.

 

[csargents1546]

It is not only gm that is doing this, had a similar message come across Ford's website recently. Same reason. And there is a way to change out the modula as long as you have a factory level scan tool.

 

[MetalMangler]

You also don't want to swap the Airbag Control Modules between dissimilar vehicles. While externally the modules may appear to be identical, they are specifically designed for the vehicle they are in. Some are meant to have a particular orientation in regards to the front of the vehicle, are set for a specific number of airbags (If your donor vehicle doesn't have curtain airbags the unit probably doesn't have sensors and logic to handle/sense rollover conditions and of course won't know to trigger airbags it doesn't think it has, etc).

MM

 

[dwljpl]

Is this new? My 2004 Grand Prix already had this "feature". The radio and odometer and possibly the HVAC module are tied to the vehicles VIN through the data bus. Definitely a pain in the **** for anyone who just needs to replace the radio or whatever themselves. I found that out firsthand when I added an AUX jack to my existing factory stereo. The test mule I bought on eBay would turn on in my car but as soon as you applied anything beyond accessory power to the unit, it would check the VIN's, see a mismatch and the radio would lock out.

 

[kruzin]

Forgetting one positive....elimates theft.

 

[Gary S]

Just another good reason to not own a new vehicle.

 

[trboxman]

Forgetting one positive....elimates theft.

It won't. The guys who steal this stuff will also know how to reset things.

 

[torqueman2002]

I contacted Ernest H. the author of the above TECH Link article to ask if he had an idea why this is the direction GM is headed.

He works for the technical call center to address escalated issues.

He said it is a result of governmental requirements to provide theft deterrent and security of cars and trucks. Not a US government requirement; rather some European governments and the Australian government have passed laws requiring car makers to secure modules in the vehicle 'environment'.

GM’s ‘Global A’ architecture is designed to recognize and identify modules on the local network. If it is not recognized on the network, the module/vehicle can be prevented from working/starting.

GM, as well as other manufactures, are globally designing and engineering cars and trucks once, to manufacture, market, sell, and service around the world. This is an example of the 'global' competition and economy.

 

[IndyGarage]

I think the end result will be the bottom dropping out of resale value on GM vehicles.

When a vehicle is new it's more likely to get serviced at a dealer or at least at a shop that has the capability to put new modules in.

However when a vehicle gets older, more and more DIY and low cost shop work is done.

If you tell me I gotta take it to the dealer to get the radio fixed when it's 10 years old - I'll tell you I don't want it.

 

[kruzin]

There is no resetting the firmware in these controllers. What you are thinking about is software which would do them no good.

I work with these controllers every day and the reason we do this is to stop theft and to stop unauthorized modifications to equipment.

 

[torqueman2002]

If you tell me I gotta take it to the dealer to get the radio fixed ...

If it's a Volvo, not for GM vehicles.

GM supports Indy module programming, there is a licensing requirement of course.

 

[4BT]

Forgetting one positive....elimates theft.

If the common mechanic can crack PCM tuning.....then the common theif will have access. It's just another puzzle to be solved.

 

[trboxman]

There is no resetting the firmware in these controllers. What you are thinking about is software which would do them no good.

I work with these controllers every day and the reason we do this is to stop theft and to stop unauthorized modifications to equipment.

The concept of "unauthorized" modifications is intriguing....but let's go back to the no resetting.

Are you saying that there will be no way of taking a module from one vehicle and putting it in an identical vehicle? None? No way of burning in a new/different VIN? No way of clearing a false trigger that shut down the module? None?

 

[mdlbldrmatt135]

............

 

[Zeke]

Just another good reason to not own a new vehicle.

True. Or lease a throwaway with a full service contract. For a daily grocery getting that's what I will most likely do as I get older and less inclined to work on cars. Even my '96 Jag and '00 Boxster are a little too complicated for me.

 

[torqueman2002]

.... If I pay for the damn thing I should be able to do whatever the hell I want to it. (Especially after any warranty might be up) ...

OK, let me play the devil's advocate a moment.

Set aside the voiding warranty issue and say the vehicle is out of warranty.

Do you support removing of the emmission control parts and pieces?

I'm not judging, I've done it my self; I'd guess I am not alone.

If you agree, then we are the people the Global Governments are requiring the car manufactures to build their cars and trucks to thwart.

I'm not glad about it, but it's the law of the land. I have seen the smog in the LA basin back in the 80's and surrounding Denver in the 90's.

When I drive behind a car or truck made before catalytic converters, I can surley tell by the smell, long before I can make out the year, make, and model.

Just saying ... the car manufactures face tough regulations and huge fines for non-compliance. Take a look who's had huge fines, let us know what you find out.

Thanks for reading.
Mike

 

[trboxman]

That's what emissions testing is for.

I want to be able to get replacement parts from a pick and pull, or a third party mfg/supplier rather than get strung over a barrel and cornholed for dealer pricing and service.

 

[torqueman2002]

... I want to be able to get replacement parts from a pick and pull, or a third party mfg/supplier ...

I understand and agree. That may be possible; if it's not, I missed it if it's in the original post.

I'll ask that question, it's a good one. You maybe correct, or the modules may need to be programmed to work with the new target vehicle.

I think it's GM policy to license programming to Indy and aftermarket suppliers.

We are all paying the price in $$ and the servicing inconvenience caused by the chop shops and trafficking of stolen parts.

Think what you may, it is not the manufactures choice to spend millions in theft prevention and security; it's a response to customer and insurance industry pressures, and government regulations.

Would we have emission components if they were not government mandated?

My intent for the original post was to give a heads up on a practice I have done, and think others have too.

I don't speak for GM. My remarks are my opinions and not to be taken as GM policy.

Take it as it's offered - a friendly heads-up on the changing strategy to deal with the increase of modules and shared information on the networks.

How about the possibility of a hacker getting into a car wireless network? While it is under power?

 

[trboxman]

How about the possibility of a hacker getting into a car wireless network? While it is under power?

Yes, I understood your intent and appreciate the info. As to the possibility of hackers getting into a car wireless network...it's a certainty that it'll happen. High tech stuff pays my bills, but I have to say that I'm not thrilled about how much reliance on electronics and computers that we're building into our mechanical systems.

 

[torqueman2002]

Yes, I agree and me too. If it wasn't for CARB and EPA, I'd probably still be finding other people jobs for my living.

My first job with GM was over 30 years ago using a computer system to take, assign, and track skilled trade jobs on production equipment making EGR valves, computer controlled carbs and all the related bits and pieces.

I shudder to think just how vulnerable our nation's infrastructure might be.

 

[SSCustoms]

I just installed a radio in a Volvo. Dealer quoted over $2000 to replace the factory unit. Two hours, a little creativity, and less than $500 and the customer left with a working radio that had more options than the oem unit.

Where there's a will, there's a way!

 

[G_P]

I just installed a radio in a Volvo. Dealer quoted over $2000 to replace the factory unit. Two hours, a little creativity, and less than $500 and the customer left with a working radio that had more options than the oem unit.

Where there's a will, there's a way!

So you are saying that if you just yank out the factory radio and try to install an aftermarket one that it will cause the "no start" issue due to the missing module??

If so that is just plain stupid. Never have I heard of anyone stealing a stock radio out of a car. Thieves just steal aftermarket decks that are easier to remove and have no anti theft features anyways and can fit any vehicle.

 

[Britwrench]

Many, if not most current European cars have VIN assigned engine, alarm, body and other control modules. This has been the case for years.

If the incorrect code is entered when programming (or have been given the wrong code) and those numbers are entered into the system, the unit is useless.

This also applies to keys, especially if the key code of the original key is missing, that means new key time.

 

[SSCustoms]

So you are saying that if you just yank out the factory radio and try to install an aftermarket one that it will cause the "no start" issue due to the missing module??

If so that is just plain stupid. Never have I heard of anyone stealing a stock radio out of a car. Thieves just steal aftermarket decks that are easier to remove and have no anti theft features anyways and can fit any vehicle.

It wasn't a no start issue, but the door locks stopped working, lights acted goofy, blower motor wouldn't shut off with the ignition, etc. I am guessing removing the factory radio in that vehicle caused a communication issue with the bcm.

 

[gezn2]

It's a direct attack on the aftermarket, blatant rent-seeking
Whatever fig-leaf might be provided by government regulation this is Auto companies adopting the Micro$oft 'You might have paid for it but you only own as much of it as we let you have at the moment' business model...
I guess my old crocks will continue to get older.

 

[Lotek]

What's really interesting is the monitoring capability that the new Global A system has, I was working on a Volt Friday, there was a message on the IPC that there was a fault with the parking assist system, but this car didn't have it. Turns out the car was part of the test fleet, and had been reflashed inorrectly at some time in the past. They could tell that I had the vehicle hooked up to my laptop, they even could tell that it was hooked up wirelessly, and that I had reflashed the BCM 10 minutes earlier.
As far as someone being able to program something without GM knowing about it, all they have to do is count the number of times the module has been programmed, if it doesn't match their database, you are SOL.
Independent shops are just going to have to get the tools and training to fix these ars right, GM will gladly sell an MDI for about a grand, you can get a subscription to the same software and resources that we use. Maybe the hacks will get out of the business and we can finally dispel the image of knuckledragging greasemonkeys. The blacksmiths that were the original mechanics were respected in the community, time to get that back.

 

[trboxman]

Doing it this way will get you a reputation for being an extortionist.

 

[6768rogues]

"Unauthorized modification" is a truckload of BS. If I buy something, I own it and I should be able to modify it if I feel like it. They should have the option of not warrantying anything that is modified, but intentionally designing it to preclude modification *****.

 

[Lotek]

Doing it this way will get you a reputation for being an extortionist.

Why? I have over 40k invested in tools, what's another grand? Why should I have to share the field with every monkey that can pick up a pair of vicegrips, people here come on and rant about how incompetent mechanics are, having to purchase and be able to use the newest diagnostic tools should raise the bar, thin out the herd, and make it so a competent tech can make a decent living again.

 

[Lotek]

"Unauthorized modification" is a truckload of BS. If I buy something, I own it and I should be able to modify it if I feel like it. They should have the option of not warrantying anything that is modified, but intentionally designing it to preclude modification *****.

The mfg's aren't driving that, the govt's are. And what happens is that someone modifies his truck, blows it up and then sues the mfg when they deny coverage. If people would man up and take responsibility, the mfg's wouldn't care, remember the Hemi Cudas from the 60's with no warranty? Now adays it's wa wa wa, someone else should pay for my mistake.

 

[torqueman2002]

"Unauthorized modification" is a truckload of BS. If I buy something, I own it and I should be able to modify it if I feel like it. They should have the option of not warrantying anything that is modified, but intentionally designing it to preclude modification *****.

OK, let me play the devil's advocate a moment.

Set aside the voiding warranty issue and say the vehicle is out of warranty.

Do you support removing of the emission control parts and pieces?

I'm not judging, I've done it my self; I'd guess I am not alone.

If you agree, then we are the people the Global Governments are requiring the car manufactures to build their cars and trucks to thwart.

I'm not glad about it, but it's the law of the land. I have seen the smog in the LA basin back in the 80's and surrounding Denver in the 90's.

When I drive behind a car or truck made before catalytic converters, I can surely tell by the smell, long before I can make out the year, make, and model.

Just saying ... the car manufactures face tough regulations and huge fines for non-compliance. Take a look who's had huge fines, let us know what you find out.

Thanks for reading.
Mike

I draw the limit of individual freedom/ownership at "Shouting fire in a crowded theater."

You want to smoke, OK by me! You want me to breath the 2nd hand smoke, you got another guess coming. No way!

 

[torqueman2002]

... I'll ask that question, it's a good one. You maybe correct, or the modules may need to be programmed to work with the new target vehicle.

I think it's GM policy to license programming to Indy and aftermarket suppliers.

We are all paying the price in $$ and the servicing inconvenience caused by the chop shops and trafficking of stolen parts.

At the risk of further inflaming the angry mob, here's some additional information regarding GM's Global A network architecture:

From Ernest H. author of above article:
"Mike,
No modules can be swapped or used from any (GM) vehicle, including salvaged vehicles. Once it (the module/radio) has been programmed it retains the vehicle's security info. that it (the module/radio) was installed into. The only radios that might be able to be swapped are vehicles that do not have XM Radio (U2K option). This only applies to Global A (network architecture) vehicles.

GM does not support any after market equipment or modifications other than GM Approved Accessories for use in Global A (network architecture) vehicles.

I am not sure what other US manufactures are using this type of electrical architecture. What I do know is that the security used on GM Global A vehicles meets the security standard of the high end imports like Mercedes, Lotus, Ferrari, BMW, Audi, etc...

The reason this is being done is to meet European standards and simplifying the vehicle diagnostics across the world, as well as reduce cost by reducing the number of parts needed, thus allowing GM to keep the cost of the vehicle down. GM can now make one part that will serve the same purpose in all countries rather than needing to produce multiple parts.

This also adds additional security for the customer by reducing the chances of vehicle theft, by making them harder to steal and/or its modules by rendering them useless to thieves. For may years BCMs could not be swapped due to VIN locks. Another positive to this type of Global A network architecture is that the vehicle mileage is less likely to be tampered with."

I don't make the news, I just report it.

 

[AgentZ]

Hacking Cars netowrks you say? In the future you think.....Already been done...http://www.networkworld.com/news/2011/072711-war-texting-lets-hackers-unlock.html

 

[torqueman2002]

Hacking Cars netowrks you say? In the future you think.....Already been done...http://www.networkworld.com/news/2011/072711-war-texting-lets-hackers-unlock.html

I thought I'd read/heard about it. Thanks for pulling up the link.

 

[SSCustoms]

At the risk of further inflaming the angry mob, here's some additional information regarding GM's Global A network architecture:

From Ernest H. author of above article:
"Mike,
No modules can be swapped or used from any (GM) vehicle, including salvaged vehicles. Once it (the module/radio) has been programmed it retains the vehicle's security info. that it (the module/radio) was installed into. The only radios that might be able to be swapped are vehicles that do not have XM Radio (U2K option). This only applies to Global A (network architecture) vehicles.

GM does not support any after market equipment or modifications other than GM Approved Accessories for use in Global A (network architecture) vehicles.

I am not sure what other US manufactures are using this type of electrical architecture. What I do know is that the security used on GM Global A vehicles meets the security standard of the high end imports like Mercedes, Lotus, Ferrari, BMW, Audi, etc...

The reason this is being done is to meet European standards and simplifying the vehicle diagnostics across the world, as well as reduce cost by reducing the number of parts needed, thus allowing GM to keep the cost of the vehicle down. GM can now make one part that will serve the same purpose in all countries rather than needing to produce multiple parts.

This also adds additional security for the customer by reducing the chances of vehicle theft, by making them harder to steal and/or its modules by rendering them useless to thieves. For may years BCMs could not be swapped due to VIN locks. Another positive to this type of Global A network architecture is that the vehicle mileage is less likely to be tampered with."

I don't make the news, I just report it.

GM started doing something similar to this in the late 90's with their radios. Until the aftermarket designed a module to allow replacement of the factory radio, the solution was a t-harness that relocated the factory radio to the trunk of the vehicle. The harness kept the factory radio in the loop, and the aftermarket radio was then piggybacked into the system. It was a pita, but if I wanted to sell radios it's what I had to do! This is essentially what I did to the Volvo I mentioned earlier.