Do Spline (aka Universal) sockets have a REAL use

[thwaller]

I have seen many threads on spline sockets, universal sockets as Craftsman and some others call them, and wonder if they have a real use. By thins I mean is there anything the spline socket does that is not better done by other tools.

Example. A spline socket is said to work with 6 and 12 point hex, external torx, square, etc. Now, I could also use a 6 or 12 point hex, an external torx or an 8 point socket for those same applications. One would assume that not using the spline drive socket would be best in all of those cases.

This implies that the spline drive socket is like an adjustable wrench, it works on a wide range of applications but is not really the best for all applications. So should I need a small yet universal tool set, I can see how spline sockets would be a solid choice. But it leaves me wondering if a spline drive brings anything to the table that offers something that the more "proper" tools do not or cannot provide?

The only part I wish to add is that I could say that a spline socket is best for spline fasteners. But as I have never had to work with a spline fastener, I cannot make that point. I hear a lot that a standard 12 point socket works as well as a "proper" spline socket for the application when the spline is for a specific use/application.

 

[Francc]

Good on fasteners 15mm or larger, terrible for 14mm and lower. Big box stores have them, they are basically like the 12-point sockets that everyone's stocking on their shelves. Due to how they are advertised, the monthly warrior and the less informed will purchase these knowing that they can use it on so many types of fasteners. Less tools = Less money to spend on them and less space to invest in.

TL;DR: They will never have a real use in a shop. Mobile mechanic? Maybe. Home. Yes.

 

[plinker]

I had bought a Craftsman set a few years ago, decent enough quality. The only time I ever actually needed one was when I didnt have a large enough E-torx socket (E24 IIRC). In general I dont care for spline, particularly for wrenches.

If you dont have a comprehensive set of sockets (6pt, 12pt, 8pt, e-torx), it would be worth picking up a set. They could also be handy for a minimalist set for a vehicle kit.

 

[RoundedNut]

Splines tend to grip around the same spot on hex fasteners as modern 6pt sockets, just before the vertices. And sometimes, a different sized one will fit better, like a 11mm spline seems to fit better than the "correct" 7/16" spline on my 1/4" lag bolts.

So given a good fit, I think they are good to use. They are lighter than 6pt's, and quicker/easier to engage fasteners so they would be the best for say nut drivers.

 

[sk farmer]

two different things. universal sockets fit a variety of sizes and shapes, metric and sae. they are not so good.

spline sockets are designed for specific sizes and shapes. they are as good as 12 point sockets with off corner engagement (pick your brands name for it).

 

[General Geoff]

I use spline on stuff all the time, never had a problem. They bite well into the flats on a hex.

http://shadowflareindustries.com/photo/_data/i/upload/2017/10/22/20171022002834-057b8e36-**.jpg

 

[Moparman390]

Outside of rare (either you work with em or you don't) specific spline fasteners universal stuff is great at rounding off fasteners. If, you got, 6pt, 8pt, 12pt, torx, SAE or Metric, whatever, and you want it rounded off, universals got ya covered! It's why they call em universal, because they round off everything!

 

[thwaller]

Outside of rare (either you work with em or you don't) specific spline fasteners universal stuff is great at rounding off fasteners. If, you got, 6pt, 8pt, 12pt, torx, SAE or Metric, whatever, and you want it rounded off, universals got ya covered! It's why they call em universal, because they round off everything!

Could I ask if this statement is guided by opinion or experience?

 

[plinker]

Could I ask if this statement is guided by opinion or experience?

https://www.amazon.com/KD-Tool-86126-Wrench/dp/B00KMB6A1K/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1543811819&sr=8-1&keywords=86126
I've got these style wrenches from Gearwrench & Matco (Kabo),They are very handy to have. But, if the wrench is not fully engaged on the bolt/nut and slips off, it will round them to some extent in my experience. Once that happens it is more difficult to keep the wrench from slipping off the fastener again. The Matco's seem to be better about this but still not perfect.

A 12pt wrench seems to fit tighter on the fastener by comparison. No such problems with the sockets I have, though I dont use them much.


Side note, the claim that spline will remove partly rounded stuff is somewhat true, but if the spline tool is what does the rounding, it wont remove said fastener.

 

[thwaller]

https://www.amazon.com/KD-Tool-86126-Wrench/dp/B00KMB6A1K/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1543811819&sr=8-1&keywords=86126
I've got these style wrenches from Gearwrench & Matco (Kabo),They are very handy to have. But, if the wrench is not fully engaged on the bolt/nut and slips off, it will round them to some extent in my experience. Once that happens it is more difficult to keep the wrench from slipping off the fastener again. The Matco's seem to be better about this but still not perfect.

A 12pt wrench seems to fit tighter on the fastener by comparison. No such problems with the sockets I have, though I dont use them much.


Side note, the claim that spline will remove partly rounded stuff is somewhat true, but if the spline tool is what does the rounding, it wont remove said fastener.

Just want to make sure I properly understand ... you have experienced the named issues with your spline wrenches, but not with your spline sockets. Is that correct? If so, are the sockets of the same brand as you have for wrenches?

 

[plinker]

Just want to make sure I properly understand ... you have experienced the named issues with your spline wrenches, but not with your spline sockets. Is that correct? If so, are the sockets of the same brand as you have for wrenches?

Correct, some issue with the wrenches, none with the sockets that I remember. The wrenches get used daily. Been a while since the sockets got used.

The sockets are the Craftsman (Taiwan) this style, from around '13 or '14, 5/16-3/4 set. I bought them mainly as a curiosity and the fact they were around 10$ or so. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Set-Of-3-Craftsman-1-2-Drive-Universal-Spline-External-TORX-Square-Sockets/113354039202?hash=item1a646d5fa2:g:TooAAOSwodlatAix

 

[General Geoff]

I wonder if it's because the wrench box ends are narrower, and aren't as easy to keep completely flat on the fastener as the sockets. I've found that to be the case with all types of ratcheting box end wrenches vs sockets, not a problem unique to spline drive.

 

[plinker]

I wonder if it's because the wrench box ends are narrower, and aren't as easy to keep completely flat on the fastener as the sockets. I've found that to be the case with all types of ratcheting box end wrenches vs sockets, not a problem unique to spline drive.

I believe that to be most of the issue, 12pt wrenches can do the same thing in regards to slipping off an improperly engaged fastener. To me, the spline stuff just seems to have a looser fit overall making things slightly worse.

Paying attention to what you are doing and making sure the wrench is positioned correctly on the fastener avoids this problem for the most part.

 

[thwaller]

I believe that to be most of the issue, 12pt wrenches can do the same thing in regards to slipping off an improperly engaged fastener. To me, the spline stuff just seems to have a looser fit overall making things slightly worse.

Paying attention to what you are doing and making sure the wrench is positioned correctly on the fastener avoids this problem for the most part.

So essentially the message is that they work for many things, but not as well as the proper tool for the job. Is there anything that they do well, better than other tools?

 

[General Geoff]

So essentially the message is that they work for many things, but not as well as the proper tool for the job. Is there anything that they do well, better than other tools?

They work well on 4 point stuff as well as E-torx. No better than dedicated square sockets or E-torx sockets, but they work just fine on them.


Saved my *** once on a hose spigot that was seized, I broke the round valve handle off and mangled the square brass valve head pretty good trying to turn it with an adjustable wrench. A spline drive socket was able to crack it loose.

Saved me again in a similar situation with a very old, seized globe style main shutoff in the house that I again broke the round handle off, and brass valve head refused to budge with a Knipex Pliers-wrench.

 

[plinker]

So essentially the message is that they work for many things, but not as well as the proper tool for the job. Is there anything that they do well, better than other tools?

Well, the extra long zero offset wrenches with the ratcheting flex head are pretty much available only in spline, so I guess they have that going for them. They work too good not to have them. More or less, I put up with them being spline, but would prefer 12pt. instead.

I'm sure others will have varying opinions on the overall usefulness of spline tools on non spline fasteners.

 

[thwaller]

Thanks for all the input. It is clear their use for a home user, maybe a DIY or one who needs a portable toolbox. Where the question remains in my opinion is if a professional or DIY with a larger set of tools (meaning the 6, 8, 12, eTorx, etc) sockets or wrenches would have a use for these.

What I seem to be gathering so far is that answer is a light yes, as they seem to have a limited specialized use, making them a sort of further specialty, specialty tool. As it relates to eTorx, I would think/hope that my eTorx sockets and wrenches would work best on those. For 4 point / square fasteners, I would almost think that an adjustable wrench would provide a more solid fit (more contact area), but I would also question how they would compare to a 4 or 8 point socket. Also realizing that not many have 4 or 8 point sockets.

 

[General Geoff]

For 4 point / square fasteners, I would almost think that an adjustable wrench would provide a more solid fit (more contact area), but I would also question how they would compare to a 4 or 8 point socket. Also realizing that not many have 4 or 8 point sockets.

Better than an adjustable wrench, about the same as a 4/8 point socket. It engages four points on the fastener instead of two like an adjustable wrench.

 

[Wamsutta]

 

[dan360]

I use them all the time both on spline fasteners, which is their intended purpose, and on 6pt, 12pt, square, and others.

High quality ones are fine. Not sure what the issue is?

I swear there was a near identical thread a week or two ago.

 

[General Geoff]

I swear there was a near identical thread a week or two ago.

There was.

 

[thwaller]

Similar, but not same, at least to me. I am asking what it is that they are for, aside from being a multi purpose tool like an adjustable wrench. I can see that purpose.

Example, one can define the reasons for a 6 and 12 point socket, although some might say they do the same thing. There are times that you will need a 12 point socket and a 6 point just will not work. Generally speaking, the 6 point is the best fit on a 6 point fastener, so its purpose is clear. You can use a 12 point on a 6 point, but typically it is not the best fit in favor of the 6 point. Given that example, I am asking what the spline excels at, what is its REAL purpose? I am not asking what it can do, but do they do something that satisfies a need not satisfied by other tools one would likely have. Specifically, if I have a full set of 6, 8, 12 point sockets, full set of eTorx and a full set of bolt extractors (rounded fasteners), is there a reason to have these sockets, or is it just a redundancy of less than ideal uses?

I hope that clears up the intent.

 

[General Geoff]

Their only non-redundant, specific purpose is use on spline head fasteners.

 

[Tonyuk]

I use spline pretty often, i have a set of long gearwrench spanners with spline ends and a 3/8 spine socket set, no skips to 19 from 10.

They work better than a 12 point socket in my experience especially on badly rusted fasteners, i've never had an issue with rounding stuff off compared to other types of socket. The spline tools feel like a looser fit because they need to be turned more to engage the flats, but they actually grip further back than a 12 point. I'm still looking for a good set of combo spanners with spline ends, haven't found any yet however.

For properly rusted stuff i have a few of the below Facom sockets in common sizes, they have a large flare where the flat of the socket normally would be, a fastener needs to be really rounded off before these won't turn it;

 

[thwaller]

So the obvious is that spline sockets are best for spline fasteners. Aside from that, I am gathering that their use is redundant, but it is interesting that some say that a spline drive is actually better than a 12 point socket when used on a 6 point hex fastener. I wonder, and will look into, the idea that maybe a spline socket has a purpose as a replacement for the traditional 12 point sockets, depending on their fit on actual 12 point hex.

One thing I still find lacking is that none of those saying all they do is round bolts provided anything to support the statement. There are images here showing the fit as it relates to a good fit, but nothing to show the fit when the use causes rounding. I would not think it proper to use a blanket statement of them rounding everything makes sense though, as I doubt they just round the spline fasteners they are designed for.

I wanted to clarify again the intent of this thread. Does the spline socket have a space in a toolbox and if so, why? I think a point can be made that a set has a place to properly address spline fasteners (vs using a 12 point) but only if the person encounters spline fasteners. I wonder if the point could be made if you could skip 12 point sockets (in the duplicated sizes) and put spline sockets in their place... unsure. There is also a claim that is semi supported that suggests there is a spot for them next to the bolt remover set for those slightly damaged bolts.

At the end of the day, there is a use for tools like adjustable wrenches, dogbone wrenches, etc ... all the tools that are multi purpose/universal allowing one to make a small box to fit a lot of things. But such uses are not within scope of this query.

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

In my toolbox, sometimes they can get a hammer press fit on a damaged fastener when others dont. Otherwise, they just get used if picked up by mistake.

The mentioned looser feel works against you when ratcheting.

 

[cvairwerks]

If you deal with spline fasteners, they are a necessity, if you don’t, they are simply another option for what you are working on.

 

[thwaller]

Does anyone know, or have a lead to find such information, who makes the Craftsman spline (universal) sockets? I assume this would be the same manufacturer as the Kobalt spline sockets as they appear the same.

The reason for this question is BOTH Craftsman and Kobalt have discontinued, for some reason, sizes in the sets. Kobalt has some of the skipped/discontinued sizes in the Craftsman product line, but only some. To me, this is telling me with action vs just words that the spline product line is shrinking at least as it relates to two fairly strong brands in the DIY and non tool truck market. The reason I find this interesting and worth asking is all seem to agree there is little use for these in the professional shop, but the DIY type has more of a use for them, yet the product lines are not supporting that logic. Snap-On, MAC, etc all carry spline sockets whereas the DIY brands are seeming to trend towards limited product line for spline.

EDIT: Adding to the reason of additional query ... I have purchased from Kobalt some of the missing sockets in the Craftsman sets. However, there are still a small few that Kobalt has also discontinued. So what I wonder is if the brands have discontinued them, or if the manufacturer itself has discontinued them. I have found what some others have mentioned, that these particular sockets do fit well, and although I am not getting all of the product line, it would be nice to have a continuous set of the portions I do have/get. I really do not see these breaking with proper use, so I would rather get them before they disappear more than they already have.

 

[thwaller]

Followup post... After using these sockets for a while I wanted to add my opinion of them. Please note that I am referring to regular and deep 3/8 drive versions of these sockets that are marked one set for inch and one set for metric, and not any of the dual marked ones.

Although the sockets do work, I do not really care for them. When I place the socket onto a nut or bolt, I do not feel the same grip/fit as I do with a 6 point or even a 12 point. As far as the result of using them, at no point did they slip, round or in any other way cause fault. I used them on standard sized ratchets and an 18 inch length breaker bar without any functional issues.

For what one user's opinion is worth, I see no reason to have these sockets. My statement assumes a few things. I am using them for normal hex head nuts and bolts and that I have a full set of 6 and 12 point, standard and deep, inch and metric sockets. As General Geoff noted above, I am sure I might have a different opinion if I had spline head fasteners, or if I were to encounter bolts or nuts that are damaged in some way. This design may grip them in a way that the 6 and 12 point ones do not.

On a positive side, I like the finish of them. I cannot speak for the durability though as I have not had them nearly long enough to comment. On sale, ehh, sure, if you do a lot of work you might need to grab them. Otherwise, there is a reason these are often on clearance.