Do we really need SAE sized tools?

[wafrederick]

John Deere used to use SAE fastners on their lawnmowers,mostly metric including the engine now.The 5 star bits are found on Chrysler products including the newer GM mass air flow sensor screws which is a tamperproof 20

 

[str8axle55]

I have both at home and at my work. I prefer to use th SAE stuff, but today the metrics are needed more. I think it would be wise to have both types if you are a pro.

 

[mike13u]

I agree man. I threw out all SAE and Metric and just use these

 

[91bronc300]

I like having and using both SAE and metric if only because it means I get to have more shiny, pretty metal in my toolbox.

 

[contactme_11]

Mack trucks don't use any metric.

 

[yogitech]

SAE is generally cheaper anyway, why not buy them? Theres an overabundance of cheaply priced SAE at flea markets and ebay. It's not worth the frustration of NOT having what you need. Buy them!

 

[diesel research]

I am a tech in a wheel and tire shop

This is the issue right here. In a tire/wheel shop you can get away with that, because often times the lugs are NOT all that tight compared to head/thread size.

It is often the smaller ones in more critical applications where matching proper sizes come into play.

I knew a guy who had worked at walmart doing the tires routine for quite some time. In being cheap, he amassed a decent collection of metric and practically no SAE because just as you state, you can get away with it.

When he switched jobs he was unprepared for dealing with the rest of the car. Rusted bolts, previously rounded bolts, red locktited bolts, bolts torqued to a much higher torque for a given size, lock nuts, 12pt bolts ect ect.

Needless to say, he is still in the metric-only habit, and ill prepared for most jobs. He ALWAYS reaches for metric, and if it rounds, blames it on bad bolts.

________________________
I'd really like to kick some *** the next time I find someone using 13mm 12pt sockets on a 1/2" 12pt driveline bolt red lock tightened in. Then kick some *** for the red locktite applier. Small bolt, high torque, red locktite, no place for "close enough".

 

[Sick Puppy]

I use the proper tool for the proper fastener. SAE for SAE, and metric for metric. I wouldn't let anybody that thought it was acceptable to do otherwise, work on my vehicle.

If a fastener is brand new, in 100% condition, you might be right, it might work fine. If it's already rusty, or somebody used the wrong size 3x before...you might be the one to round it off, and now I, the customer, will have to pay you to fix what you used the improper tool on.

Would the proper tool have rounded it off? Maybe, maybe not. But a few thousandths here or there can make a big difference.

...

I still have the proper tools for them, and wouldn't consider using anything else.

+1 I have only metric, since my cars are Japanese and German. If I was working on someone else's car/stuff though and it was imperial/SAE, I would not work on it without the right tools.

If I had found that a mechanic had been working on my gear with incorrect tools, I would be pissed. A mechanic, like any contractor, is in a position of trust - they do a job, they do it well, and they get paid accordingly.

Not having the correct tools = job not done well. I'd rather a mechanic refuse my job on those grounds. There will be a cumulative effect on those nuts and bolts that others will have to account for long after you have stopped working on those vehicles.

It's a PITA that different regions/equipment use different measurements for tooling etc. (google the Euro/USA satellite/Mars rover that went wrong as they used metric and SAE without telling each other), but since they do, we're stuck with them.

 

[aspera]

Aren't seat belt bolts in most cars standardized as 7/16 fine thread? My Subaru has these but they've got metric heads. Are they metric, SAE, or both? It also has sensor ports that are BSPT. I don't see how something 'British' (as in BSPT) could also be 'American' (as in SAE). I guess it is just 'fractional'.

 

[diesel research]

I'm not gonna go so far as insult anyone for not knowing. Benefit of the doubt, perhaps his mind is open and asking genuine question. Perhaps not, but that's besides the point.

There is this common misconception that lugs are "critical" fasteners. They in most cases are certainly not. Sure it's important that they don't fall off, but that isn't the same. They are often over engineered/sized ect ect and do not require the highest quality torquing compared to some other parts of a car. There is often little regard to stretching and preloading tension ect ect.

A cylinder head bolt for example is under quite a bit more critical carefulness. Torque angles, multi stage torqueing, thread lubrication sometimes, ect ect. It also doesn't have the "over engineered" qualities of most lugs. Therefore, for a given head size, it is under considerable more stress. More stress for a given surface area, means fastener/tool fitment becomes more critical.

Many other parts of the car you can find these "undersized-overworked" fasteners. Often not in a standard hex, and often subject to more heat corrosion or wear.

It becomes much more important for a proper fit. Hence the 12pt vs 6 pt debates, the passion for certain brands, and all these improved design types.

All of that gets thrown out the window when one insists on using the wrong size in the beginning.

FWIW, I recall certain 6.5L chevy diesels who had a funny exhaust flange bolt/nut. One side was MANDATORY to use 9/16 NOT 14 or 15mm either one. Other side was metric. A special bolt, not garden variety bolt bin types. (which I learned is common when I replaced a steering shaft pinch bolt with something from the bolt bin and the steering shaft fell off on my test drive! special application specific bolt only)

 

[uhohjim]

Not only do you need SAE and metric sockets ,wrenches............then you get the whole other range of TORX fasteners......BMW and other Euro cars use them not to mention alot of domestic use and yes you need them......cause a socket MIGHT work to get one off...........but probably not.Jim

 

[mrholeshot]

Just buy a set of Metrinch and be done with it. lol

 

[W650Mike]

It really doesn’t take that much extra money to gear up for both. A couple sets of end wrenches, hex wrenches, and the three drives of sockets will cover nearly everything encountered. Add to that as need dictates.

Be a Professional with the right tools for the job, or be counted as a shade tree hack.

 

[WHT]

I know a few guys in there 80's and 90's still spinning wrenches on Motorcycles and cars. german & English, They use SAE on german stuff all the time. They think we are funny and foolish for buying so many different wrenches.

I used to use a giant S.A.E. 1" 5/16 for a 36mm. I now have a 36mm for it. I got by just fine as a guy who keeps his own stuff working and running

For what it is worth, and I am not supporting the practice, older (professional) mechanics will probably have S.A.E. tools/sockets in 1/32-inch increments. That's equivalent to a 0.794 mm increment. Many people today only have S.A.E. tools in 1/16-inch increments.

 

[eyeboltman]

duanedragon Tell you what you come on down with all metic tools and we will see how much you can get done. as far as 7/16 being 11mm compare with a caliper.

Don't even get me started on the whitworth stuff....

Do I need Whitworth to work on my 1997 S-10 Come up for air !!!

 

[charle10]

I repair my cars but am no means a mechanic. What I've found is on larger sizes greater than 3/4, you can get away with using a metric on Standard or vise versa if you have to. On the other hand I would not try to pull the same kind of thing on smaller sizes you'll just end up making headaches for yourself and others that work on the car after you. To figure out what a Standard size translates to in Metric, just multiply by 25.4 (from Metric to standard divide by 25.4). 1-1/2" = 38.1mm. So a 38mm may not fit on a 1-1/2" bolt, but a 1-1/2" will fit a 38mm with .004" (.1mm) slop.

 

[Ryan]

Hey fellas, if you got to put someone down on a tool forum to express your point of view then you are the one with the issue... Not the original poster.

I cleaned all the negative **** out of this thread. Please be respectful or don't post.

Thanks,

R.

 

[knotheads]

I agree man. I threw out all SAE and Metric and just use these

youi must be a plumber!

 

[Grogan14]

There's only one way to do a job, and that's the right way.

It's difficult to find folks that want to actually work nowadays, much less do their job well. I think they're all convinced that life's supposed to be just as it's portrayed in beer commercials.

 

[Lump]

Funny...I have often wondered why I bother owning metric tools. But then, I am a dinosaur, aren't I?

I have no interest in working on my new cars or trucks. But I enjoy tinkering with my 70 Chevelle SS, my 1958 Ford tractor, and my 1923 Hupmobile.

Slowly but surely, I am adding metric tools daily. But only because I must. Metrics are much easier to figure out, of course, but not so easy for an old guy who has the SAE style memorized. I can look at a nut or bolt and tell without trying that it is a 9/16 or 3/4" wrench size. But I have NO IDEA what metric size that equates to, so I just grab a bunch and start trying.

Before too long, my generation will be gone, and this debate will be over. SAE tools will belong to collectors only. But I won't be around to see that...

 

[moronmountain]

I use SAE tools way more than metric.

 

[Old Donn]

As you can see duane, this is a well traveled road. I'm not a pro, but my vehicles and yard equipment have enough SAE that both them and the MM get their fair share of use. Besides, my old SAE has seniority. Some of it's as old/older than I am.

 

[Skyline]

Keep in mind that some fairly recent domestic vehicles use a combination of Metric / SAE. For example, on my '96 Jeep Grand Cherokee, while most of the vehicle is Metric, pretty much anything on or attached to the ****** is SAE. So unless you work at a foreign only shop, you need SAE.

Also, if you ever need to service any of your shop equipment, (air tools, jack, lift, compressor, USA made tire machine, etc) those will also be all SAE for the forseeable future.

 

[diesel research]

Keep in mind that some fairly recent domestic vehicles use a combination of Metric / SAE. For example, on my '96 Jeep Grand Cherokee, while most of the vehicle is Metric, pretty much anything on or attached to the ****** is SAE. So unless you work at a foreign only shop, you need SAE.

I was going to mention my own jeep, a '99, but then realized something. In my case, it's 12 years old, in your case it's 15 years old. depending on the part of the country, some shops are too "prima donna" for that stuff anyways. "more than 10 years, I'm not touching it, bolts might round off".

 

[Big Rick]

I have a set of wentworth tools I have used them on 1 car in 10 years. The gal has a 120 Jag she has become a very good frend/customer I don't mind the wentworth it's working with the DR.of Darkness in the electric system

 

[Lump]

I have a set of wentworth tools I have used them on 1 car in 10 years. The gal has a 120 Jag she has become a very good frend/customer I don't mind the wentworth it's working with the DR.of Darkness in the electric system

LOL. Love it. "Lucas: Inventor of the self-dimming headlights." Chuckle.

 

[dirtrider]

I use both but prefer SAE, I had to stop myself from using SAE that would fit on metric fastener's just because of my preference. Use the right tool for the job. Having different measuring systems on fasteners and the need to buy several kinds of tools to have the correct tool is part of the nature of being a good mechanic.

 

[dazcapri]

I've got a metrinch set that I've had about twenty years that fits both I used it as what you guys would call a road box as back then I was running whatever cheap car turned up at the right price, some with metric some sae, and didn't want to carry too many tools with me. We have a draper tools over here don't know if you guys get them over there and they sell multidrive sockets that fit sae' metric and tx fasteners. Personally I've got both metric and sae I like to have the right tool for the job.

 

[Aberdale]

"Do we really need SAE sized tools?" Only if we have SAE fasteners. If you are always working on metric stuff, then of course, you don't need SAE. But if you are talking about using metric sized tools on SAE fasteners, then why stop there? Why buy metric sized tools? Just get a crescent wrench, a Vise-Grip, and some Channel-Locks and you can feel confident that you can work on anything with your 3-piece tool set. Oh yeah, you might want to get a pipe wrench, a torch, and a hammer too, just for all the corners you round off.

It's been said in this thread a dozen times now. Anyone who wants to do a job right, uses the right tools for the job. All of us have used the wrong tool in a pinch, and might have gotten lucky, or paid the price. But anyone who used the wrong tool as a habit will eventually get burned.

 

[diesel research]

I used vise grips on a brass fitting because the proper SAE no longer fit (someone using metric before?). Needless to say, I wound up replacing said fitting.

 

[matthew]

The real question isn't whether both are needed - they are - but rather how much longer that will be the case. Automotive has largely changed to metric, and it seems like metric is gaining momentum in other industries.

I expect building products will be among the last to change over (if they ever actually do), but even around the house metric tools are starting to be more commonly needed. Obviously it will be decades before old installations are replaced and make SAE tools completely obsolete, but time are changing on new products...

 

[weegaz22]

I have imperial stuff that my dad owned, all my stuff has been metric, and the only time I use imperial is on certain size metric bolts/nuts if they have been rusted to the point the bolt head has shrank that using the correct size would do nothing but round it further, but that's more interference fitting as you may need to hammer it on sometimes, bolt/nut replaced thereafter with new item.

Everything i have came across here and in Europe was all metric, my mate had a collection of imperial, but he also had an old Bronco and a Camaro so he would have needed them on those.

 

[ZRX61]

I have a set of wentworth tools I have used them on 1 car in 10 years. The gal has a 120 Jag she has become a very good frend/customer I don't mind the wentworth it's working with the DR.of Darkness in the electric system

It's Whitworth, Wentworth is a golf course

 

[ZRX61]

I am a tech in a wheel and tire shop that caters to light and medium duty service trucks. I love my tools but am a little annoyed that I must have 2 sets of tools, one for metrics and one for SAE.

It's not realy "2 sets of tools".... it's just one set that's incomplete if it doesn't contain both.. or in my case, all 3.

 

[HandyManny]

Simple and short answer to the original question - YES!!! We still need SAE.

 

[treasureseeker]

I have a Prototype mechanic tool list which requires both SAE and metric. 1/4 to 1 1/16 SAE and 8 to 21mm metric from Roush . It is in excel if anyone wants a copy just PM me your email.

 

[Honda guy]

Yep, still need SAE. 99% of my work is metric but occasionally work on a Harley or Polaris and they're a mix of SAE and metric.

It just "feels" right to have the correct tool for the job.

 

[Busted Bolts]

I never know from day to day whats comming in the door, it could be an early 80's JD dozer, or a 2011 Kubota. All I know is I'm faced multi brands and various hardwares. Every thing these days is about stream lining and making short cuts. I have come to accept that in my line of work (heavy equip), you better have the right stuff. Just when I think I have enough to get through some one comes out with a fastener or specialty tool that you NEED or can make your job easier. I find that on both SAE and Metric.

 

[AZ_Catskinner]

For my new job (fixed plant mechanic) the tool list is all SAE, no metric involved.

 

[msnow]

I think that with a lot of the automotive techs on here you see a lot more metric but the machinery I work on is all SAE. Any body in the millwright, plant maintenance, or electromechanical fields can attest to that. I hardly work on anything metric but when you need it you have to have it. I feel the same way about the SAE, you can not be turning bolts that might cost more then a set of tires with the wrong wrench.