do you use jack stands when you get a flat out in the boonies? I do two tires at a time:
Do you ALWAYS use jack stands? Help settle the argument.
- Thread starter JackOfDiamonds
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whateg01
Well-known member
johnre
Well-known member
OK, you caught me. I guess I'm technically inconsistent.
But what I would say about this is that the probability is pretty low for a flat on the road, and if I do get one, all I do is change the wheel, then get on with it.
In my garage, on the other hand, if I have the vehicle up for tire rotations, I usually want to take my time and have a look at other things like suspension members, brakes, steering components, CVs, halfshafts, etc. I know the temptation is high for me to sit down with my legs stretched out, to reach in and put my hands into the movable components and give things a pretty good yank to to check for play, etc. If my rule from the get go is to always use safety stands (and FWIW this means QuickJacks for me), I don't even have to think about it, I just go for it.
I know myself too well, if it were up on a jack alone, I'd push it too far for staying clear of the "fall danger" zone for the vehicle, and take one too many risks. It only takes once to have a very bad day, and accident reports are full of such anecdotes.
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ajchien
Well-known member
Omega Magic Lift Jack stands. Although … I don’t know anyone that actually has them, possibly due to price. I think this video is from 14 years ago.
I use jack stands and wheel chocks. Not because I’m worried about dying when swapping wheels. I just don’t like the idea of seeing my car’s rotor or whatever hit the concrete. Feels unnecessarily traumatic. Must say that I don’t have winter/summer wheels though. I’m usually doing a tire rotation and my routine is the car up on 4 stands and then moving them around.
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rust in the eye
Well-known member
Out in the wild we sometimes make poor decisions. This past Saturday while inspecting a potential car purchase I crawled under the car supported only by a jack. BAD idea in retrospect, especially since the jack was an unknown.
When performing roadside tire changes(mercifully few in recent years) I'll toss the spare underneath while removing lug bolts from the flat and the flat one goes under while tightening the spare.
Stand placement is important too.
While lowering a car onto stands I was once struck by a jack stand that was pinched somehow so when the weight was applied it shot out with considerable force hitting me in the chest knocking me to the ground. Fortunately it didn't hit me with any sharp edges. Could have been ugly.
Managing to survive lapses in judgement this long I find myself thinking of safety more. Taking a moment to CORRECTLY position a jack stand, look around for safety glasses or give second thought to some dodgy tool configuration is okay now, the job can wait a few seconds longer.
At home there is no excuse for not supporting the vehicle.
When performing roadside tire changes(mercifully few in recent years) I'll toss the spare underneath while removing lug bolts from the flat and the flat one goes under while tightening the spare.
Stand placement is important too.
While lowering a car onto stands I was once struck by a jack stand that was pinched somehow so when the weight was applied it shot out with considerable force hitting me in the chest knocking me to the ground. Fortunately it didn't hit me with any sharp edges. Could have been ugly.
Managing to survive lapses in judgement this long I find myself thinking of safety more. Taking a moment to CORRECTLY position a jack stand, look around for safety glasses or give second thought to some dodgy tool configuration is okay now, the job can wait a few seconds longer.
At home there is no excuse for not supporting the vehicle.
demarpaint
Well-known member
If I'm working on a car that's on a jack my jackstands are in use. If I'm changing a flat in an emergency, I'll toss a tire under the car for safety, like @rust in the eye does, but in a situation like that I'm not going under the car.
Shoreline_
Well-known member
Well I havent had to work on the floor in a long time, but even if the work I am doing would not crush me, usually I use a jack stand in the event I can't get the car or truck back up after a jack failed. I dont have a 2nd jack low enough. So I guess Im thinking more about not screwing myself over than hurting myself.
Flats on the road are a funny case, and quite rare anymore. Obviously it's not just the lack of gear, but also the uneven surface and sense of urgency. C'est la morte.
I mentioned old Beetles above and wish that modern cars had serious plug-in jacking points to go with some kind of mechanical jack. For long-term work on a car, I wonder if someone makes a thing that bolts in place of wheels. Another product might be one of those 22 ton forklift pin-type jacks but with more range. Don't get me wrong on any of this, I fear jacks and gravity. I'll always remember slipping under a car held up only by scissors jack and watch the jack twist and settle to the ground, tailor-made for just breathing out, not in..had to scrabble like mad. Of course, I was young/stupid, the car was dense (428 Mach 1), and the jack was foreign small car.
I think I'm with the wood guys if I could just find a big enough chunk. It's funny how insanely strong cribbing can be although there's the problem of shear if you're stacking the things.
driftpin
Well-known member
I've posted this elsewhere.
My parents bought a 1962 VW Beetle Cabriolet, brand-new, $2225, when a standard Beetle sedan was ~$1700 out the door. That Beetle was what I learned to drive a manual transmission while behind the wheel. We lived by Lake Ontario NYS.
One day I was changing a flat tire in the concrete floor garage, using the 'slick jacking points' which were tubular sockets in-front of the rear wheelwell, and beneath the running boards. I was using the OEM jack in that socket. As I started to jack the car, I noticed a flurry of rust chips, steadily falling off the area of the rocker panel. I'd done that before, changed a wheel/tire, but when I was jacking then, I was used to seeing the side of the car rise off the floor of the garage. This time, I only saw the rust chips shower. Then I noticed that the area of the jacking socket was slowly-collapsing. I gave the J-lever a few more pumps, and watched as the jacking point slowly collapsed the sheet metal of the rocker panel, and the rust shower continued. I stopped my jacking attempt, and gave a report to the head of household, "we need another type of jack." The VW Cabriolet was probably 5 years old.
Years ago, at a place I cannot recall, maybe a scrapyard or a yard sale, I bought a set of probably 1/4" aluminum diamond plate welded wheel ramps. They had a too-steep ramp angle to drive-up, but just jack up the front or the rear, and slip 'em under the wheels/tires and you got probably 8-9" of lift. Far better than the plastic ones, never had a pair and never will.
Sounds like a new car might have been in order, although I'm not sure that they're as bad as a Ghia or 914.
I do keep one per car idk why I’d need two?
As a backup to the first one.
Sounds similar to what BMW uses, though I never had any grief with them. I thought it was pretty slick actually. Plus, with the crank handle, you could lift a car fast.
You could also get adapters to use those jacking points with a floor jack too:
Shoreline_
Well-known member
I finally threw mine out after using them once on all my e36's I had. I don't know why I never used them more. They were really nice. I think the round part was forged. I got my from BavAuto back when they were still around.Sounds similar to what BMW uses, though I never had any grief with them. I thought it was pretty slick actually. Plus, with the crank handle, you could lift a car fast.
You could also get adapters to use those jacking points with a floor jack too:
olsenmotorsports
Well-known member
Check out the AGA tools Jack rod. Pretty much eliminates the need for any stands. Handy bit of kit. Love it.
Plus it’s GJ and we always need an excuse to buy more stuff!
Aga tools jack rod
Plus it’s GJ and we always need an excuse to buy more stuff!
Aga tools jack rod
whateg01
Well-known member
That's similar to what I had in mind. Good to know somebody is making them.
johnre
Well-known member
Another consideration here: Not all the dangers from slipped jacks are from vertical crushing; there's also the issue in tight quarters of lateral vehicle movement and getting pinned into a wall or another vehicle. True story:
RedneckWelder
Well-known member
This. Yeah you may not be placing your body under the car but do you get to tell the car where it’s going to fall towards if the jack fails?
That 'Jack Rod' thing looks like a brilliant idea, although the name could be better. I'm always surprised when somebody gets in that or the ladder business given the opportunities for legal fusses.
I wonder how strong those points on the jack are where it mounts.
Really the whole problem is pretty interesting. Catastrophic vs. slow failure. Tipping vs. sliding. It's one thing to change the oil and quite another to get a manual trans out on the floor. Gravity is a *****.
I wonder how strong those points on the jack are where it mounts.
Really the whole problem is pretty interesting. Catastrophic vs. slow failure. Tipping vs. sliding. It's one thing to change the oil and quite another to get a manual trans out on the floor. Gravity is a *****.
So which is safer?
1. Put vehicle corner on jack, R&R wheel, never get under the vehicle, drop.
2. Put vehicle corner on jack, get under vehicle to slide jackstand under there, adjust jackstand and jack a couple of times, drop vehicle on jackstand, reverse order. Wash, rinse, repeat.
I'm not altogether sure.
whateg01
Well-known member
No you don't. But you can be aware. Chocking the wheels can also help control that. So, I guess in that way, I guess you can tell it which way to fall.
Houdini5150
Well-known member
If I am working under the car or need to have the car up for extended time, I am putting it on stands as I learned how to do so growing up. If I am doing a quick tire change, then no so 99% of the time I am putting on jack stands
It would be fun to watch the original poster change his tires using those. I'd pay for a seat.if I'm going under the vehicle, it's on a proper support that isn't the jack.
for brake changes I'll set the suspension down on one of these so there's no surprises.
At a land-rover club event a long time ago, they had a tire change contest. No hi-lift allowed, just the jack that came with the vehicle. My team had a series rover whose jack had disappeared sometime in the previous 40 years. So I drove one wheel up a retaining wall embankment, until the limit of suspension articulation pulled the opposite wheel off the ground.
Is it cheating to use a couple of strong guys?
GaryM909
Well-known member
You could probably use a pipe instead. Not as convenient but would work the same.
You just have to jack the vehicle up to a certain height.
I do have a couple extra stands I made for under my RV incase the hydraulic seals fail when I am not out where its parked. I could weld saddles on each end so it doesn't slide out and they would be adjustable.
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Assuming that #2 you wouldn't jack the car up, remove wheel , then add the stand, it's technically safer than #1
If the jack were to fail you would still have all the wheels attached to the vehicle even if the stand wasn't positioned yet.
It's ultimately up the user to determine their own safety-to-convenience ratio...
What it the jack fails while you're under there setting up the jackstand? It seems to me that never getting under the car is .0000001% safer. One problem with #2 (so to speak) is that it's a whole lot more complicated and thus prone to failure.
I'll bet that optimum ease/safety is to have a big ol' block of wood with a handle in the end. Slide it under there while you're doing your thing. I really should build something like that. Maybe a chunk of railroad tie? Won't roll over for one thing.
As a complete side note, I was surprised as heck with the Project Farm test.if I'm going under the vehicle, it's on a proper support that isn't the jack.
for brake changes I'll set the suspension down on one of these so there's no surprises.
I always assumed that those plastic ramp thingies would fail, well, un-gracefully. Turns out they did just what you need things to do.
The only objection I can see at this point is how the plastic degrades over time, either from sunlight or just age.
Unless it's maybe a slammed lowrider, I have yet to have clearance issues with sticking a jack stand less than
an arm's length under the pinch weld (if applicable) or frame. And if it does fail in #2, all wheels are still on the car.
This whole thread is an "agree to disagree" situation, which is totally fine!
I used to co-drive and service stage rally cars and we would have service areas in the craziest locations
at all hours of the day in any weather condition. Usually don't get much more than a tarp and an ez-up!
Muddy, uneven parking lots were the norm and we would NEVER do any lifted service without jackstands -
even the fancy ones that slide into tubes welded into the rocker/chassis (those were super-cool)
You had minutes sometimes to do a repair and if someone had a hand on the jack - time to focus.
"going up!" "coming down!!" were- and still are, common shouts to ensure the everyone's safety.
These days, shop/vehicle service is considerably more mellow, but the same principles apply.
I'm not risking my life for a stupid tire change. The jack and stands go together like peas & carrots,
why not enjoy them together?
I'll tell you one thing. Somebody needs to stop by our local ReStore and throw away every single jackstand there. Really sketch looking.
So how do the always-use-a-jackstand-to-change-a-tire people feel about the Unijack? Dangerous? Silly?
edit: ooh la la. A 'CAT' branded variant.
edit 2: OK, now I know I've been living a sheltered life.
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four.cycle
Well-known member
No. Not only toxic, but they're ungodly heavy and almost impossible to cut. Plus you're going to get nasty creosote on everything it touches.
Scope out a construction site and beg a cut-off of a header beam: 6" x 8" or 6" x 10" - way mo' betta.
Jweebothee
Well-known member
For a quick tire swap, no, but if I am doing more, like brakes or suspension yes, I’ll use them.