Do you consider ASE's tools?

[Toolhorder]

It wasn't all that many years ago that most places would fire you if you either showed up late three times without having a pretty good reason, or didn't show up at all one day, without calling and having a really damn good reason for not being there.

I can still remember the condition of some of those guys that dragged themselves in on Monday mornings after a solid weekend of drinking. They looked and felt like ****, but they were there, because they needed the job. They didn't get a whole lot done that day, but they were there.

WoD

It's still like that today. I don't drink so I really dislike when my co-workers decide to drink and come in with a hangover. I lose all respect for people like this. It's not good for customers and it's not safe for your coworker's. Last thing I need is to get hurt cause some guy wanted to get stinko the night before.

 

[diesel research]

People that say they are worthless I've found don't have them because they can't pass the tests or are intimidated by tests in general

True most of the time.

 

[znowaczyk]

People that say they are worthless I've found don't have them because they can't pass the tests or they don't care about being a professional tech.
These are usually the guys who don't buy quality tools, show up late everyday, can't keep a job with 1 dealer very long, complain constantly about how everyone is screwing them over, etc..

I had my Master/L1 but a couple have lapsed and I haven't had time to get retested. Waiting for the computer based testing actually.
I can tell you I got a good job with the local city I live in and they were impressed with the master cert. I had in my resume. You have to shoot higher then jimbob's independent garage if you want to see if they matter or not.

I say they are worthless because they genuinly are. I show up to work every day when I am supposed to. I have a box full of tools worth probably $80K. Was at the dealer three years, worked for the worlds worst boss 5 years and have finally found a good home for my box. I care very deeply about being professional. I have never complained once (even at the dealer, fighting warranty times) that flat rate is out to srew me. I guess I don't fit your mold.
I guess it just gives the customers the warm and fuzzies to know their vehicle was serviced and repaired correctly by an ASE certified master tech.

 

[WhiffySpark]

I take 8 last night. a1 and a5 are easy. Engine performanced kicked my ***. It's so outdated its ridiclolous. I'm happy to report the a9 diesel test is a good test though, 70 questions long but it's updated. There was a handful of 4cyl diesel questions, but the rest was from this era.

I got to take 4 more again next thursday. I wouldn't recommend taking that many

 

[spencerian]

Meh... I have 15 years experience. I have seen recent grads from those tech schools. They have certs a mile long, but can't tell a spark plug from a **** plug.

 

[diesel research]

Meh... I have 15 years experience. I have seen recent grads from those tech schools. They have certs a mile long, but can't tell a spark plug from a **** plug.

If you found your shop/dealership had suddenly closed tomorrow and had to go somewhere else where you were not known by anyone, what techniques would you use to persuade the new shop to give you the job at the rate you desire? Actually, what would you use to make your resume/application standout so they would call you for an interview in the first place? (w/o mentioning any credentials)

AFAIK, w/o that, you have approximately 3 lines/sentences on the resume in which you can use to sell yourself. Maybe a few more if they actually call listed references (not likely)

I suppose your best alternative would be listing your ERL/productivity stats.

 

[Gtamazing]

Nobody cares what the hinge heads do up there.

This hinge head think thats the funniest thing he read all week

 

[justanengineer]

If you found your shop/dealership had suddenly closed tomorrow and had to go somewhere else where you were not known by anyone, what techniques would you use to persuade the new shop to give you the job at the rate you desire? Actually, what would you use to make your resume/application standout so they would call you for an interview in the first place? (w/o mentioning any credentials)

AFAIK, w/o that, you have approximately 3 lines/sentences on the resume in which you can use to sell yourself. Maybe a few more if they actually call listed references (not likely)

To me thats just plain funny as I found that networking is the key to survival, especially in the trades. In almost 10 years, before taking a pay raise to my current position, I never once filled out an application or even had a resume. Granted, I never HAD to work because of being in the military full time and then college full time, but I did pretty much continuously work nights. I was simply known to be someone who worked hard and had the necessary skills and knowledge base, and would be referred directly to either an owner or shop foreman for interview. Before anyone gets the wrong impression...I worked in 2 auto dealerships, a heavy truck dealer, and for the state police along with the small shops.

 

[knocker]

All great responses guys, I definitely wouldn’t have gotten my current job if it wasn’t for my ASE’s. I was told by my service manager during the interview that having ASE’s shows I take my career seriously and a certain level of understanding of automotive repair.

 

[spencerian]

If you found your shop/dealership had suddenly closed tomorrow and had to go somewhere else where you were not known by anyone...

It's a small town. Word of a good tech travels fast.
My reputation proceeds me.

It had better be a REAL good job that wants certs on top of experience.

 

[shampoop]

If you can afford to take them then I would. I have to recert. two of mine to get my Master cert. current plus I need the L1. That's a couple hundo right there then in order to renew my CA. smog license I need the ASE's just mentioned plus two update 8 hour courses which are $250 a pop. I'm looking at almost $1k for "paper" on my resume. Does it mean I'm a good tech? Maybe. Continuing education is important if you want to be in the know. Do I need it to do timing belts and brakes all day? Nope.
Many indy shops don't do complex repairs I've found so maybe they can get by on a 20 year old education and a job education where you work on cars 10 years old or above. Personally I think these guys are below the top rung on the mechanic ladder but that's just me.

I remember the tests only cost me around $30 each. Never bought any study guides either. Good thing too cause I didn't even end up studying at all anyway I did A5 and A6 for the first session, and A1, A2, A3, and A8 for the second session. I did the paper tests though, when i get around to taking the A4 and A7 I'm pretty sure I'll have to do the computer tests, iirc thats all they do now. Edit: nvm, november this year is the last time written tests.

Is the L1 hard? I've never even heard of it till just now.

 

[ibedayank]

I will say it again.... CERTS WILL GET YOU IN THE DOOR... YOUR KNOWLAGE WILL KEEP YOU FROM GETTING THE PINK SLIP IN YOUR LOCKER...

 

[diesel research]

To me thats just plain funny as I found that networking is the key to survival, especially in the trades.

It's a small town. Word of a good tech travels fast.
My reputation proceeds me.

It had better be a REAL good job that wants certs on top of experience.

Yes, I agree, in a small town, things can be easier. Unless you are displaced for whatever reason (economic downturn, family issue, running from the law , or natural disaster)

Here, there are 6 million people. Not all of them are automotive "techs", but rest assured there is tens of thousands. You have to sell yourself a little harder than just "I showed up to work for many years". Not to mention, even if you did "know someone on the inside", management turnover is quite frequent. No one knows your name.

 

[jay50]

The guys that down play the need for ASE certs are the one's that can't pass them. They're also the parts changers that change parts and send the car on its way, just to have a pissed off customer to return in a few days with the problem still no fixed.

jay50
ASE L1

 

[ptschram]

All great responses guys, I definitely wouldn’t have gotten my current job if it wasn’t for my ASE’s. I was told by my service manager during the interview that having ASE’s shows I take my career seriously and a certain level of understanding of automotive repair.

I would hope the two college degrees I have would show that.

With one exception, all of my professional jobs have come from ads in the newspaper. The one exception was a dealership where I didn't last the probationary period. Last time I ever move for a job without a contract for a given period of time.

 

[dankicksass]

I think seeing the sign or banner makes clients feel better than not seeing it. I advocate testing but I wouldn't hold it against a kid if he wanted to work and didn't have anything. I know how difficult it is to start in the business...

 

[Stick]

The guys that down play the need for ASE certs are the one's that can't pass them. They're also the parts changers that change parts and send the car on its way, just to have a pissed off customer to return in a few days with the problem still no fixed.

jay50
ASE L1

I wouldn't agree with that. I'm probably the farthest from a parts changer that you'll find, and I'm usually showing the guys in the shop with the ASE's how to properly diagnose a problem quickly and correctly. I don't hold a single ASE, and unless the job requires it, I probably never will. I've met more hack mechanics with blue and white paper that I wouldn't trust to repair my lawnmower than decent techs with no paper. I'm also far more impressed with manufacturer certs than fancy badges and blue and white paper.

To me, an ASE just shows that someone can test well, where a manufacturer cert shows that they are dedicated enough to whatever brand that they have been sent to attend further training on the manufacturers dime.

Edit: I think you'll find even over at places like iATN, which is made up entirely of professional techs, the discussion about the need for ASE's is pretty mixed. There are a ton of knowledgeable people there without certs, but just as many with certs. I'd trust just about anybody there to work on anything I own, regardless of if they hold paper or not.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

There was a handful of 4cyl diesel questions, but the rest was from this era.

Come to Europe, the vast majority of diesels are 4-cylinder. We have a lot of diesel cars here. The 4-cylinder diesel engine (in general, due to production.) is probably in the cutting edge of diesel engine design and tech.

Meh... I have 15 years experience. I have seen recent grads from those tech schools. They have certs a mile long, but can't tell a spark plug from a **** plug.

I'm going to use that on monday with our apprentice.

I wouldn't agree with that. I'm probably the farthest from a parts changer that you'll find, and I'm usually showing the guys in the shop with the ASE's how to properly diag anose a problem quickly and correctly. I don't hold a single ASE, and unless the job requires it, I probably never will. I've met more hack mechanics with blue and white paper that I wouldn't trust to repair my lawnmower than decent techs with no paper. I'm also far more impressed with manufacturer certs than fancy badges and blue and white paper.

To me, an ASE just shows that someone can test well, where a manufacturer cert shows that they are dedicated enough to whatever brand that they have been sent to attend further training on the manufacturers dime.

Edit: I think you'll find even over at places like iATN, which is made up entirely of professional techs, the discussion about the need for ASE's is pretty mixed. There are a ton of knowledgeable people there without certs, but just as many with certs. I'd trust just about anybody there to work on anything I own, regardless of if they hold paper or not.

An interesting angle. I don't have any qualifications relevant to my job, but have just spent a lot of money to start the course of tests to get them. No manufacturer certs either, having never worked for a main dealer. (yet.) The reason for getting qualified is for getting a better job, as the main dealers here require it. (Unless they sponsor you for it.)

I know lots of qualified techs that can't really do much at all. I work with one who'll soon be fully qualified, yet has never done a clutch/cam belt/head gasket or even much beyond brakes and (fairly easy) suspension work in over 2 years. He also shows little willing to learn, despite saying he wants to. I'm the opposite, i'd been a mech for about 2 weeks before i did my first cambelt, unassisted. I'm not one to say that i want to learn something, i'll just go get a book and what i need and start learning. (Like i'm doing with electrical diag.)

Unfortunately, there are many people here (like those i work with.) who are of the opinion "i've got this far without knowing more, so i'll be fine."

It's an interesting topic, but when it comes down to choosing employees on paper, how do you pick? The most qualified might have little hands-on ability, while a more experienced person may be lacking much vital knowledge. I would guess references would be key.

 

[Racr350]

I consider them tools because they have made me money and have allowed me to work my way up through Toyota. Being an MDT requires having all 8 ASE's. As your status goes up, so does your paycheck.

 

[knocker]

I consider them tools because they have made me money and have allowed me to work my way up through Toyota. Being an MDT requires having all 8 ASE's. As your status goes up, so does your paycheck.

Samething over here at Volvo, I need all 8 to get master status

 

[Gtamazing]

Is there a difference between a tech and a mechanic? Or is it like a stewardess and a flight attendant? What are the levels of qualification in the States.

 

[diesel research]

Is there a difference between a tech and a mechanic? Or is it like a stewardess and a flight attendant? What are the levels of qualification in the States.

No, not "officially". There are some informal opinions, but they are just that.

Each shop has it's own way to define the various levels.

Some may call the low end "lube tech" or "helper" or "MA/assistant" or "apprentice" or "tire tech".

As the levels go up it could be C-Tech, B-Tech, A-Tech or Tech1, Tech2, Tech3, OR Tech3, Tech2, Tech1, or General, Senior, Master, it all varies.

 

[SpiderGearsMan]

helps when looking for a job , but recert every 5 years get expensive

 

[SpiderGearsMan]

Come to Europe, the vast majority of diesels are 4-cylinder. We have a lot of diesel cars here. The 4-cylinder diesel engine (in general, due to production.) is probably in the cutting edge of diesel engine design and tech.



I'm going to use that on monday with our apprentice.



An interesting angle. I don't have any qualifications relevant to my job, but have just spent a lot of money to start the course of tests to get them. No manufacturer certs either, having never worked for a main dealer. (yet.) The reason for getting qualified is for getting a better job, as the main dealers here require it. (Unless they sponsor you for it.)

I know lots of qualified techs that can't really do much at all. I work with one who'll soon be fully qualified, yet has never done a clutch/cam belt/head gasket or even much beyond brakes and (fairly easy) suspension work in over 2 years. He also shows little willing to learn, despite saying he wants to. I'm the opposite, i'd been a mech for about 2 weeks before i did my first cambelt, unassisted. I'm not one to say that i want to learn something, i'll just go get a book and what i need and start learning. (Like i'm doing with electrical diag.)

Unfortunately, there are many people here (like those i work with.) who are of the opinion "i've got this far without knowing more, so i'll be fine."

It's an interesting topic, but when it comes down to choosing employees on paper, how do you pick? The most qualified might have little hands-on ability, while a more experienced person may be lacking much vital knowledge. I would guess references would be key.

the state of california will never allow many diesel cars , which means the whole country

 

[Gtamazing]

In my trade (machinist) if an apprentice calls himself a machinist he is usually corrected by the nearest journeyman. In Canada we have Certificate of Qualification or C of Q. Most good shops won't look at you without a c of q unless you have 10 years experience or have worked in one of the big 4 shop in the area. Again though you still gotta be good at what you do to keep your job and make good money.

 

[spencerian]

The guys that down play the need for ASE certs are the one's that can't pass them. They're also the parts changers that change parts and send the car on its way, just to have a pissed off customer to return in a few days with the problem still no fixed.

jay50
ASE L1

Some of the best mechanics I have ever met have never had ASE's or have expired ASE's.
My former boss was one of the best on diagnostics and electrical. Probably the best I had ever seen.
He would often send me to help the other mechanics that were stuck on a diagnostic problem.

I have seen new techs that have ASE certs that can't diagnose or turn a job in a decent amount of time.

I have no ASE certs, and my "comeback" rating is less than 3%.
I down play certs, and I can certainly pass them.

 

[nate379]

Just curious do you work on Volvo equipment/trucks or cars? I haven't seen a Volvo car on the roads in a long time.

Samething over here at Volvo, I need all 8 to get master status

 

[treasureseeker]

The best mechanic I ever worked with had no current certifications. He once had the Michigan ones but let them expire and as we were doing the used cars at a dealership certifications were not required. I took two of the SAE test this time around and found many question or choice of answers ambiguous. I am used to taking difficult test in college. I did learn quite a bit of useful information from the Motor study gules that could be put to use in the field. Certification test are not always a good reference of the persons abilities. I **** at electrical on a vehicle but on papers it is usually my strongest subject. I do know a lot of mechanics that have a master SAE and extremely good tech that work on Mercedes.

 

[diesel research]

I have seen new techs that have ASE certs that can't diagnose or turn a job in a decent amount of time.

Bet you saw PLENTY w/o certs that fit that same category.

 

[knocker]

Just curious do you work on Volvo equipment/trucks or cars? I haven't seen a Volvo car on the roads in a long time.

Volvo cars, I'm originally from Phoenix and volvo cars are far and few but here in San Antonio their everywhere. My dealer is the only one south of Austin and we are always busy.

 

[TruckTech]

To me, an ASE just shows that someone can test well, where a manufacturer cert shows that they are dedicated enough to whatever brand that they have been sent to attend further training on the manufacturers dime.

Instructor led training from OEMs is paid for by the dealer/distributor, and its pricey, as in $1000-$1500 for each of the 3 courses necessary for "master" certification on just one of the 4 engines I deal with, plus the cost of travel, or roughly $300,000 to fully certify my whole shop, but maybe its different for automotive. The dealer is usually required by the manufacturer to have X percent of its techs certified to a certain level/s to keep its dealer/distributor status.

My last service manager told me straight out I would not be attending any training, and that "on the job" training from other techs was just as good. I left shortly after. I talked with some former coworkers recently and nothing has changed. His excuse is that, "No one good stays around long enough for me to justify the cost". Hmm, wonder why?

 

[Toolhorder]

This thread is like ford and chevy what's better?

 

[Stick]

Instructor led training from OEMs is paid for by the dealer/distributor, and its pricey, as in $1000-$1500 for each of the 3 courses necessary for "master" certification on just one of the 4 engines I deal with, plus the cost of travel, or roughly $300,000 to fully certify my whole shop, but maybe its different for automotive. The dealer is usually required by the manufacturer to have X percent of its techs certified to a certain level/s to keep its dealer/distributor status.

Most of the manufacturer classes I've attended were paid for or provided by the manufacturer, but travel/lodging/etc. were covered by the employer. Still pricey, but not obscenely so.

My last service manager told me straight out I would not be attending any training, and that "on the job" training from other techs was just as good. I left shortly after. I talked with some former coworkers recently and nothing has changed. His excuse is that, "No one good stays around long enough for me to justify the cost". Hmm, wonder why?

I damn near quit the job I've got now when the shop foreman spent $4k+ each on two laptops for the shop (ruggedized touchscreen Dell's) and blew most of our training budget on them. Not quite sure how he justified spending training money on tools, but it got approved. We would have been better off with six $500 laptops and money left over for new OE scan tools and training for them. Luckily he's not in charge anymore, and that's a good part of the reason why.

 

[TruckTech]

Most of the manufacturer classes I've attended were paid for or provided by the manufacturer, but travel/lodging/etc. were covered by the employer. Still pricey, but not obscenely so.

What manufacturers where those? I deal with truck engines, specifically Detroit Diesel/Mercedes, but Ive never really talked with anyone about automotive training.

I damn near quit the job I've got now when the shop foreman spent $4k+ each on two laptops for the shop (ruggedized touchscreen Dell's) and blew most of our training budget on them. Not quite sure how he justified spending training money on tools, but it got approved. We would have been better off with six $500 laptops and money left over for new OE scan tools and training for them. Luckily he's not in charge anymore, and that's a good part of the reason why.

At my previous job, we had 2 Panasonic "Toughbooks". At my current job, we have 5 cheapo laptops. At the end of the day, they are equally unreliable, only now, if one is broken, I go grab another one and turn the broken one in for repairs, instead of pulling my hair out trying to track down the only other one in the shop and getting into a 10 minute argument about who needs the laptop more.

 

[Gtamazing]

This thread is like ford and chevy what's better?

Chevy obviously