Do you have a 3D Printer for your shop?

[keith204]

I’m working up a video about 3D printing for people who don’t live in their parents basements, but instead have workshops and do stuff.

But, I don’t know anyone who has both a workshop and a 3D printer, so I’m soliciting advice.

My argument will be that 3D printing has actual shop uses, like ad-hoc printing of parts, Custom jigs, knobs, adapters, etc.

Question for you: do you have a 3D Printer?

If so, what kind of shop-related things do you do with it? If not, what is holding you back?

 

[bdbecker]

My main motivation for purchasing a 3DP was to use it as a shop tool. Along with the uses you mentioned, the other thing that intrigued me was to use it for making investment molds for casting parts. I have not done a lot with it since I purchased it a few months ago, but that mostly due to a busy schedule and needing to focus what free time I did have on finishing my garage ceiling (new lights, sheeting, insulation).

Here's one practical application of a 3DP for making a mold for a rubber steering column pad:
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=429312

Have you seen the 3D Printer thread we have going on here?
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=384990

 

[honcho]

No 3D printer here; however, I agree with you that there is potential for much utility in the shop. Problem is, it's early in the home 3D printing game and materials / machines are certain to improve over time. Sure could have had a lot of fun with one with my kids when they were young with their model making.

 

[Spacey_G]

I don't have a 3D printer in my shop. It would certainly have its uses, but I find it more enjoyable and often faster to make things with traditional tools and materials. I spend my entire work day on the computer, much of it doing CAD work. I do not want to spend my leisure time doing the same.

Also not interested in the endless tinkering with the machine. If I do need a printed part, I'll outsource it to one of the many quick turn printing houses and let them deal with the machine maintenance.

 

[Honest Bob]

They seem pretty cool but I suspect alot of them just sit around.

The amount of time and dedication needed to learn the cad software is something that I think is vastly underestimated, let alone calibrating and troubleshooting when things go wrong.

Scenario 1. Things go perfect and you design the part you need in three hours and print it out. Great

Scenario 2. You spend three hours designing the part only to have some sort of issue while trying to print it (temperature, design flaw, communication issues, calibration issues, wrong material, or mechanical failure) and you end up spending another hour two or three on the project and your wore out. Your day is gone, it didnt work, you wasted expensive material and you end up ordering the part anyway.


Guess which scenario is going to be more common when first starting out?

 

[CGarage]

A Markforged. Very useful.

 

[bdbecker]

They seem pretty cool but I suspect alot of them just sit around.

The amount of time and dedication needed to learn the cad software is something that I think is vastly underestimated, let alone calibrating and troubleshooting when things go wrong.

Scenario 1. Things go perfect and you design the part you need in three hours and print it out. Great

Scenario 2. You spend three hours designing the part only to have some sort of issue while trying to print it (temperature, design flaw, communication issues, calibration issues, wrong material, or mechanical failure) and you end up spending another hour two or three on the project and your wore out. Your day is gone, it didnt work, you wasted expensive material and you end up ordering the part anyway.


Guess which scenario is going to be more common when first starting out?

This isn't an argument for or against 3D printers - a similar scenario is true for any piece of equipment that requires skill and knowledge to operate. How many 120v welders are sitting in the corner collecting dust because people wanted to learn to weld but got frustrated and gave up?

 

[sz0k30]

Depends on your shop & what you want to use the printer for. Home & small shop versions print in some sort of plastic. If you are making small toys, emblems, gifts or parts just to check possible ideas or clearances, might work fine. If lets say you like to play around with cars and expect to make suspension pieces, its not going to happen.

 

[Aaron_W]

It is on my to get list, but I don't have one yet.

As far as shop uses I've seen them used to make small custom sized storage boxes for various shop items (nuts, bolts, drill bits etc) as well as tool holders, like for hanging a chuck key onto a drill press.

The current crop of $200> are pretty amazing, and the higher end ones even better. There is one being advertised now that is a 3 in 1 3D printer, laser engraver / cutter and CNC router using exchangeable modules.

3D printers capable of printing with metal are out there and probably will be in the affordable reach of home shops in the not too distant future.

 

[Honest Bob]

This isn't an argument for or against 3D printers - a similar scenario is true for any piece of equipment that requires skill and knowledge to operate. How many 120v welders are sitting in the corner collecting dust because people wanted to learn to weld but got frustrated and gave up?

So very true, however a welder is a not a piece of ever evolving technology it can sit there for 5 years and you can decide to learn how to use it and be fine. Most likely even the consumables will still be available.

Let a 3d printer sit for 5 years and go to try and use it. Oh wait the software is to old to use on your newer computer. Ok I'll use another program but wait that program doesnt support your old 3d printer! Do you find an old computer? Do you buy a new 3d printer? Even if it still works will you still be able to get consumables for it? Its the ever lasting cycle of technology.

I'm probably just jaded from years of doing IT where someone NEEDS a certain piece of software, we spend a couple grand on it and then it never actually gets used because no one wants to put the time in to learn how to use it.

 

[Aaron_W]

So very true, however a welder is a not a piece of ever evolving technology it can sit there for 5 years and you can decide to learn how to use it and be fine. Most likely even the consumables will still be available.

Let a 3d printer sit for 5 years and go to try and use it. Oh wait the software is to old to use on your newer computer. Ok I'll use another program but wait that program doesnt support your old 3d printer! Do you find an old computer? Do you buy a new 3d printer? Even if it still works will you still be able to get consumables for it? Its the ever lasting cycle of technology.

I'm probably just jaded from years of doing IT where someone NEEDS a certain piece of software, we spend a couple grand on it and then it never actually gets used because no one wants to put the time in to learn how to use it.

I think more of an issue than software is just that the tech is evolving so quickly. A 3D printer that cost $1200 6 years ago, is totally outclassed by a $180 3D printer in 2019.

On the plus side the tech does seem to be very much upgradable by a knowledgable person, unfortunately that is probably not the guy who bought it 6 years ago and just got around to playing with it. It is very much a DIY technology.

 

[keith204]

Whoa. You totally shifted my direction.

Now I’ll start with a video to lay a foundation and demystify 3D printing — using your questions to drive that.

I’ll also post some responses here one evening this week.

 

[joe_pinehill1]

Yes, but suggest you look for an adult class for SolidWorks or similar program. You can leverage a printer when you can design your own tools and print.

You might consider taking a course first, and check your local resources. Our town's library has printers, you drop a file off and they print and you pay by the gram. We also have a MakerSpace with printers.

3D metal printing IMHO is farther in the future for a home shop. One reason is printers use powdered metal that is extremely explosive.

 

[keith204]

I don't have a 3D printer in my shop. It would certainly have its uses, but I find it more enjoyable and often faster to make things with traditional tools and materials. I spend my entire work day on the computer, much of it doing CAD work. I do not want to spend my leisure time doing the same.

Also not interested in the endless tinkering with the machine. If I do need a printed part, I'll outsource it to one of the many quick turn printing houses and let them deal with the machine maintenance.

This one in particular.

A 3D printer ought to SAVE time and handle things you don’t want to...so you can spend your time making heirlooms instead of making custom router parts.

Parametric design is wildly fast.

The endless tinkering can be ended by buying a printer that has a huge community. If I have an issue, I ask the printer’s Facebook group and get a response within a few minutes. Endless tinkering is stupid and would and should be a deal breaker.

Oh BTW as far as endless tinkering, when you buy a printer, you’ll see sites saying “30 Must Have Upgrades for the Printer XYZ.” Those are *not* for the people of GarageJournal. Those are for people bored out of their minds who find 3D printing itself to be the only thing worth pursuing in life.

 

[Spacey_G]

A 3D printer ought to SAVE time and handle things you don’t want to...so you can spend your time making heirlooms instead of making custom router parts.

Personally, 3D modeling is the thing I don't want to handle. I definitely don't want to spend my leisure time on message boards troubleshooting a piece of technology. I have more than enough of that in my day job and it grows old very quickly.

I go out to the shop to get away from the computer and the headaches and do something hands-on. The goal isn't to turn out the heirloom piece in the most efficient way possible. It's to enjoy the process as much as I can. If I have to make a jig, that's part of the fun. Adding a 3D printer, for me, would detract from the enjoyment rather than enhance it.

 

[astroracer]

A desktop 3D printer is a useless tool if you can't model the parts you want or need. Being able to do the modeling, quickly and efficiently, is also key to being productive. Pulling "parts" off Grab Cad only works for so long, if at all.
I can do the modeling, I've been using Unigraphics since '93 so I am very proficient with it. Will I ever own a 3D Printer? Probably not because it is so much easier to send my files to Shapeways and have them printed out on a high resolution machine that I don't have to maintain or feed...
I know too many people that have bought the cheap desktop printers and all they do is collect dust because they don't have the ability to make the files or the things just don't print worth a damn.
I will continue to do my 3D models and send the files out for printing. Guaranteed good, usable parts with no headaches.
Now, this is just my take on this subject. Just throwing it out there as another option.
Mark

 

[PCMusicGuy]

I have one I bought last year. I wanted to be able to reproduce a car part, but make it better than the original. It worked out pretty well, although it took me about a half dozen prints and tweaking the model till it was good. It also took another half dozen to get the print orientation and slicer settings sorted out so that it had a pretty smooth finish and strength in the axis where it was needed. It is certainly not as turning it on and just printing a model.

I've made some other useful things around the house. Those include a bar holder for the laundry room (to hold empty hangars), a gripstic holder for the pantry (because I was tired of knocking them on the floor), and a cell phone holder for a sit/stand desk attachment. I'm also working on a bike tire sled that will attach to a DIN rail for a custom bicycle lift I'm building.

 

[keith204]

It sounds like a lot of concerns are about

1. design time
2. printer reliability/hassle

Both of those, if true, are great reasons to avoid 3D printing altogether. We like to make and do stuff....not tinker with stuff.

I feel these are both very minimal (BTW I'm using a good, popular $200 printer), and I'm eager to at least share my experience.

Thanks for the insight.

 

[chipjumper]

I made these socket holders with my wife’s 3D printer she built at school with the class she was teaching. It is the goofiest 3D printer I’ve ever seen but it sure works good (pine boards, ball bearings, and a lot of JB Weld).





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[keith204]

Here's a preview: a few parts I printed one day last week w/ my trusty $200 printer, and their design times:



Knobs (Design time: 15 minutes). Securely hold 1/4" nuts and bolts. The nuts & bolts "snap" in, making quick, flat knobs cheaply and quickly. I use these things all over the place for router parts, mounting cameras, lights, etc.


Custom Bench Dogs (Design time: <5 minutes): Dogs for the MFSlab are expensive, hard to find, and even the expensive ones (I own the Veritas dogs) are not ideal for my uses. There are 2 or 3 styles of bench dogs that are simply not sold anywhere. This is one of my favorites.


1-2-3-4-5 Super Squares. (Design time: 20-30 minutes): 90% of the time I use my combination square, I'm holding it with my left hand to draw a perpendicular line with my right hand. I made these to chuck around the shop so one's always close by.

For quick reference and increment spacing, the edges are 1", 2" 3", 4" and 5". The rail is 1/4", which leaves a 3/4" gap above it. The 1" ends have notches in the middle, which provide a 1/2" reference.

This is a super useful tool specific to my usage.... which is one of the key awesomenesses (is that a word?) of a 3D printer. "I wish they made a ..." turns into "I'll just make one real quick."


Mic stand (Design time: 20 minutes):

My voice-over mic had an awkward stand, so I made a proper, simple one.


Round sanding block: (Design time: 0 minutes - I downloaded it from here).

Glue velcro & use/reuse sanding discs.

BTW check out the other stuff Walter Hsiao designs!

...

I'll include more in the video.

BTW. These were all printed while....never mind, that's another topic entirely and you wouldn't believe if I told you.

 

[Tynndareus]

I found that 3D printing for the workshop was only beneficial for me when using it to make organization bins, holders, and the odds and ends mock up part. Rarely do I use 3D printing for more than mocking things up.

I have a CR-10 with a decent size build platform and rarely do much more than make bins or holders.

Just my 2c though

 

[chipjumper]

Here's a preview: a few parts I printed one day last week w/ my trusty $200 printer, and their design times:

What printer do you have?



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[keith204]

What printer do you have?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Creality Ender 3.

 

[speed bump]

I like having a 3d printer. It really opens up options for building custom widgets and it isn't rocket science to make a 3d printer run well. Personally the time consuming thing is taking an idea and turning it into a usable design.

 

[keith204]

I like having a 3d printer. It really opens up options for building custom widgets and it isn't rocket science to make a 3d printer run well. Personally the time consuming thing is taking an idea and turning it into a usable design.

What software do you use?

 

[EyesFit]

When your printing service was on order with sales and service on the side of the printer, then maybe it could work. You're in a big city, that's supportive. But the online market has brought long-term retail stores to a close quickly.

It is also important to note that a corporation operates a shop at printer how. Possibly you would spend much of your time balancing books and payroll and spending no time on working on printers.

 

[RoninB4]

I've been a toolmaker for several decades and have been using 3D parametric software for almost 20 years. I'd like to use a 3D printer for making things sometimes but just don't have enough applications to justify the purchase. Either the things I'd want would be lacking in precision, structural integrity, or surface finish to attempt on a printer. From what I've read, further machining of a printed part for precision can/will compromise the integrity of the piece. Using powdered metal requires a more expensive printer than is warranted for the few times I'd use it. An inexpensive printer that makes plastic parts is fine for making toys or the occasional widget (gear sets) but I'd rather just make the part from metal that I know the properties of.

 

[vavet]

I’m just starting to look into 3d printers. Im intrigued by the low cost, but worried about buying one that’s too small.

If you design smartly, is it possible to design things to assemble quickly, easily, and securely? Are the tolerances on a 3d printer good enough so that I could design a mortise and tenon, slot and tab, etc so that they fit together easily? It seems the most common materials are abs and pet. I think there are adhesives that would work for those.

 

[txvwnut]

Yes a 3D printer will hold tight tolerances. It may take a few tweaks in the slicer settings to get where you want it to be but can be done. Creality Ender 3Pro user.

 

[shepherd]

i have used mine to print sharpening jigs, parts for my tablesaw's blade guard/dust collection, custom jigs for the bandsaw...easily saved the cost of the printer replicating a lot of things I see online for ridiculous sums of money. If you can use SketchUp, you can 3d print....you don't have to be a CAD master.

 

[RoninB4]

"Tight tolerances" is a relative thing. A mortise/tenon could be created but I wouldn't expect to hold three decimal places from what I've read on that other board. For woodworking tolerances it would likely be a very handy tool for creating jigs/fixtures. I've no practical experience with 3D printing beyond using prototypes made elsewhere but results are likely proportionate to the amount of money spent like any other machine.

 

[matt_i]

I don't have one but there's one at the plant where I work.

It seems like they are very useful for

- internal geometry that's really hard to create by machining without a lot of special tools
- to quickly prototype and test a brainstorm idea to see if it works as intended before committing to traditional metal fabrication or to a large quantity.
- to reduce weight by upping the amount of "void" in the center of the part

The downside is getting going with the 3D modeling if you're not already skilled in one of those platforms.

I've experienced 3D parts used in production and the downsides are: they usually break if subjected to any load and the parts can be very rough. I spent a lot of time last week ID-scraping a guide-bore for a detent-shaft that was sticking inside of it. The shaft was also very rough-turned at a high CNC feed rate, nobody at the OEM took the time to "fit" the parts together and make them work smoothly, which isn't totally a knock on the printer but it seemed like their prevailing attitude was that they should just work together without additional intervention.

 

[bdbecker]

I’m just starting to look into 3d printers. Im intrigued by the low cost, but worried about buying one that’s too small.

If you design smartly, is it possible to design things to assemble quickly, easily, and securely? Are the tolerances on a 3d printer good enough so that I could design a mortise and tenon, slot and tab, etc so that they fit together easily? It seems the most common materials are abs and pet. I think there are adhesives that would work for those.

Unless you have a specific project in mind that would require a larger print bed, I wouldn't get too hung up on getting a big one to start out. I have a CR-10 S4, but I'm pretty sure an Ender 3 sized machine could have run pretty much everything I've come up with so far. The only time I've used the full bed was to nest a bunch of parts, which could have just as easily been run on a smaller machine in separate batches. The downside to a big bed (beside the cost) is that it takes quite a bit of work to keep it level and it has a pretty good size footprint in my home office.

Yes, a 3D printer can hold some pretty tight tolerances - I've used my machine to make a number of parts where dimensions are critical and I've had no issues.