do you have a safe?

[Crizzle]

Spent the last 30 minutes doing a search to see if this thread had been started but wasn't able to find it.

I'm looking at gettng a safe to put stuff in (duh). Already have a small fireproof for important papers, etc, and just want something to keep stuff in that I can lock and not have to worry too much.

Any one have this cheapy safe from HF? Thoughts?

http://www.harborfreight.com/executive-safe-95824.html

 

[browntown]

It is all in the fire rating. Gun forums have countless threads on the subject. What I've gleamed off the subject is get the best you can afford and made in america. Be prepared for a couple thousand dollar investment. I would skip the HF and get something heavy duty

 

[Gary S]

I wouldn't mind having one if it didn't have the digital lock. I don't need another item sitting around with dead batteries and electronic malfunctions.

 

[eldirector]

I see you are in Indy.

Check out Johnson Safe up in Zionsville (http://www.johnsonsafe.com/). Not much more expensive for a small safe, but MUCH nicer. You get to pick your options, too. He has some safes on the showroom floor, and you can custom order anything you want.

 

[formek]

This is something to keep in mind you get what you by

 

[ket-tek]

I wouldn't mind having one if it didn't have the digital lock. I don't need another item sitting around with dead batteries and electronic malfunctions.

They all have key locks as well, you don't have to use the keypad.

I have an in-wall safe with digital keypad and I use the safe's keypad at least 2 times every day if not more.. It runs on 1 AA battery that I installed over 3 years ago. I keep waiting for it to go, but the low battery led still has not lit up yet. So I wouldn't stress dead batteries to much.

 

[BlindViper]

Leave that junk at harbor freight I could get in that safe in under 5 min.

 

[BlindViper]

Leave that junk at harbor freight I could get in that safe in under 5 min. I would recommend a gun safe I spent 1100$ on mine but its rated at 1350 for 1 hr.

 

[Tink]

If you get a floor safe,be sure to secure it to the floor with anchor bolts. I had an old store drop safe that was stolen when my house was broken into. The newer safes have holes in the bottom for this purpose.

 

[MoToys]

This is something to keep in mind you get what you by

Great video!

Do yourself a favor a go to a locksmith and or safe company and look for guidance.
Just like a tool chest, buy a little bigger than you expect to need. Make the investment in a good safe and you will never have to do it again.
(A regular dial type S&G wheel pack is the way to go, no digital.)

 

[Jayincali]

Leave that junk at harbor freight I could get in that safe in under 5 min. I would recommend a gun safe I spent 1100$ on mine but its rated at 1350 for 1 hr.

Agreed, that HF safe can be broken into using a HF pry bar in under 5 minutes, or a sledge in under 1

What kind of safe did you buy for $1100 with that kind of fire rating? That kind of rating would be found in safes in the $3000-$4000 range. Mine should be delivered from Liberty the end of this month.

 

[SHELLFISH]

I just picked up a gun safe in Melbourne Florida.
$1,000.00. Weighs 550 pounds with the holes in the bottom to bolt it to the floor.
This baby isn't going anywhere!
It's an American Security safe.
It also has a hole in the back for a goldenrod wire.
I forget the fire rateing.
I didn't want an electronic combination lock.
Mine is a straight manual dial.
Last one he had. They are all going electronic now.

 

[Toolhorder]

Agreed, that HF safe can be broken into using a HF pry bar in under 5 minutes, or a sledge in under 1

What kind of safe did you buy for $1100 with that kind of fire rating? That kind of rating would be found in safes in the $3000-$4000 range. Mine should be delivered from Liberty the end of this month.

I have the one above but it's a Lincoln model. I've had it maybe 3 years and it's a solid unit. Skip the electronic BS IMO.

 

[Jayincali]

Yea no electronic lock for me, I got the dial installed. This thing weighs like 800lbs, luckly the safe company will deliver and install and bold to the floor.

 

[BlindViper]

What kind of safe did you buy for $1100 with that kind of fire rating? That kind of rating would be found in safes in the $3000-$4000 range. Mine should be delivered from Liberty the end of this month.

I bought a champion http://www.championsafe.com/trophy.html
My model isn't there but when I bought it, it was the previous years model and didn't have a feature the new ones do. I didn't care about the feature but the 300$ price difference I lived with. Looks like they have upped the fire rating now to its 1500 deg for 75 min.

Not sure on if the sales guy at the gun show was telling the truth. But that video posted above he said it was a liberty safe. He also had some pictures of a safe he opened with 2 prybars that said liberty on it.

 

[Jayincali]

I bought a champion http://www.championsafe.com/trophy.html
My model isn't there but when I bought it, it was the previous years model and didn't have a feature the new ones do. I didn't care about the feature but the 300$ price difference I lived with. Looks like they have upped the fire rating now to its 1500 deg for 75 min.

Not sure on if the sales guy at the gun show was telling the truth. But that video posted above he said it was a liberty safe. He also had some pictures of a safe he opened with 2 prybars that said liberty on it.

I think all the companies do that, trying to make their safes look better than the rest. I've also seen pics and videos of the "other guy's" safes being busted into with pry bars, sledges, etc, only to see the companies safe that your looking into buying being the top dog. Its all marketing BS.

 

[denis4x4]

I bought a large gun safe and had extra concrete poured under the base. Off loaded the safe and framed around it! Who ever buys this property gets the gun safe at no extra charge as it will not fit through the door!

 

[martyp]

Any safe can be broken into - typically the more you pay the longer it takes and the harder it is to do. You are paying for time and effort, effectively.

As the others have said:

Buy the most you can afford

Try to place it where it's not visible (closet, etc.) away from live heat sources (gas lines)

Secure it to the ground/wall/etc.

Keep your garage tools out of sight - don't help the bad guys, especially with drills, carbide cutters, and plasma cutters

I have a Fort Knox (www.ftknox.com) and am very happy. With that said, I don't think that any particular manufacturer is the best; they all produce several lines of safes catering to differing budgets (and protection levels).

Cheers and good luck.
M

 

[brownbagg]

there are safe that are good and not in the 1000 dollar range, yes i agree liberty are good and for the price worry free. But I got mine from bass pro shop around 700 and it every bit as good as a liberty. I seen some at academy sports that look good.

 

[John in OH]

+1 on what Martyp said -- Any safe can be broken into - typically the more you pay the longer it takes and the harder it is to do. You are paying for time and effort, effectively.

My Dad always said, "A lock only keeps an honest man out". Same holds true for safes.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I wonder how long it would have taken those guys if they had to pry that safe open if it was still standing upright, bolted to the floor.

 

[6768rogues]

I have a safe that weighs about 1200 lbs. and is smaller than the HF safe. I bought it at an auction for $115. It was a pain getting it into the basement, but it will not come out easily. It has a 5 number combination.

 

[justanengineer]

I have two of them sitting in my old shop in NY that came with the farm. One is a Sargent and the other another good brand I cant remember, both probably from the 70's or 80's and fireproof. Theyre each a 2' cube, perfect size for the homeowner, but because of the number of used safes out there I couldnt give them away on craigs for $50 despite several attempts. Safes are definitely not worth spending money on new.

 

[Toolhorder]

I doubt anyone's getting into my Liberty, other safe companies can claim whatever they want. One reason I bought the Lincoln over the Franklin is the active bolts on all 4 sides. I guarantee no prybar is opening it. If it said liberty on it it must of been the cheapy entry level safe. The centrion or centry whatever they hell they call it.
At the Liberty safe place they have a wall of broken into safes along the wall. Majority of them are the Home Depot/Lowe's models.
A couple are actually Liberties but they have been burned up OR cut up and survived. Liberty will replace and broken into safe or damaged safe if you file a claim with your police dept. and submit it to them.

 

[ar2stp48]

As mentioned, there has been a lot of discussion on some of the gun boards; read a bit on gunbroker.com in the general discussion forum

All of my comments are based on several years of safe service and repair. The thread quickly turned to gun safes; they usually do. All gun safes are basically the same--a thin outer shell of sheet metal and one or two layers of sheetrock for insulation. Sorry, that is it. Liberty has been mentioned and it is one of the better gun safes. You dont want HF version, or the entry level I have seen at Atwoods etc. Suggestions to look for when shopping---read the specs or ask:

Dial lock. S/G is good and frequently used. Electronic keypad locks will give trouble; not a matter of "if" but "when". Look for a 4 number combination rather than a 3. Someone mentioned a 5; the last is a drop number where the dial stops turning.

Method of changing the combination? Key change is frequently used. Do not use any predictable number in your combination--NO birthdays, phone number, address, etc

Relocker system. If someone tries to bypass the lock, they will trip the relocker and make it much more difficult to get into the safe--even by a safe tech

Hardplate or drill proof located behind the dial and handle area

Active bolts on top, bottom, and open side of door. A passive bolt on the hinge side is fine.

There are often good deals on older safes. Most are a bit smaller than the standard gun safe, but they are usually of heavier construction, and more secure. Check C/L, the local papers, any "thrifty bargain" papers, and any business that is going out of business.
Not uncommon to find one where seller does not know combination and the door is open. Buy it cheap and have lock read and reset--takes about 30 min. If door is closed and no combination, keep walking

My safe is a double door Mosler approx 5 1/2 ft tall, has 4 number plus drop combination, and weighs close to 2000 pounds. Doors are 8" thick, sides are closer to 6", inner doors are 1/2" plate steel. Cost was $50 from a furniture store going out of business.

Good luck. Got any question, just ask

 

[Lippyp]

I have a vintage safe, probably 1930's or older as it claims to have a "Black powder Proof " lock. Probably not that secure by todays standards but it would deter the casual amateur and its well hidden, they ain't gonna take it with them unless they have a real hefty trolley to wheel it away on as it weighs about half a ton.

 

[Hud]

I wouldn't mind having one if it didn't have the digital lock. I don't need another item sitting around with dead batteries and electronic malfunctions.

I have a Steel Water safe I love it. It has a digital lock with a hidden keyed bypass so you can always get in and the digital is so fast.

 

[srode]

I have a Steel Water safe I love it. It has a digital lock with a hidden keyed bypass so you can always get in and the digital is so fast.

Those are great safes for a very reasonable price, and they can be ordered with a combination lock too. A safe will either deter a thief that is in a hurry, or will slow down one that is very determined and well equipped.

That said, all the ones quoted on here are really classified as residential security containers, not safes. To be classified as a safe they must meet certain specifications for exterior wall thickness etc. I believe it's 1/8 inch steel, but don't remember for sure. A real safe will weigh about twice what any of the ones on here do. I doubt there are many people that could justify purchasing one though as the safe would cost more than the contents in most cases.

 

[M3Pilot]

It seems no one likes electronic pad. I have 3 safes at work with electronic pads. They are all 8 years old. I have to open/close them many times a day,364 days a year. Batteries are easy to replace & replacement is needed infrequently. One pad did malfunction around 6 months ago & required a locksmith to repair. Assuming that safe was opened only 10 times a day (in reality it's probably opened twice that much), that's around 25000 uses before failure.

 

[WVBrady]

It seems no one likes electronic pad. I have 3 safes at work with electronic pads. They are all 8 years old. I have to open/close them many times a day,364 days a year. Batteries are easy to replace & replacement is needed infrequently. One pad did malfunction around 6 months ago & required a locksmith to repair. Assuming that safe was opened only 10 times a day (in reality it's probably opened twice that much), that's around 25000 uses before failure.

What did the locksmith do? Was he able to just replace the keypad? I have fears of having to have it drilled.

 

[ar2stp48]

by srode: "... I doubt there are many people that could justify purchasing one though as the safe would cost more than the contents in most cases"

I have to disagree with this statement. We have a vast assortment of gun safes priced in the $1500 to $3000+ range. That is an easy target range to beat with a higher quality, older safe; to use your term, a "real safe"

I know the Mosler I use is/was the bargain that doesnt happen often. A large double door Mosler for $50 (no, I didnt forget any zeros) doesnt happen every day. A few others:

A single door, 30" wide x 56" tall for $600. I was called to determine and change combination; door was open, locked, and owner didnt have combination. Sold quickly

Office safe, single door, about 38" tall; asking was $400, think it sold for $350

Large single door Mosler with inner chest, approx 50" tall. Free for hauling it home. I cleaned and changed combination; gave it to my business partner

Herring Hall Marvin double door; free for hauling it home. Serviced it and sold it for $500

Vault door; again free for asking and hauling

A person can find a quality safe at a fraction of what all the box stores want for their containers. Will take just a little effort; look and ask.

 

[Grumpy365]

I bout a good quality gun safe when I was 16 & 22 years later I am still happy with it.

The only thing about a gun safe is you out grow them a lot quicker than you think so go biggest you can possibly afford.

The lock has a key that keeps you from spinning the dial and a dial.
The key also let's you lock it when it is set on the hitch ( so you can get in an out quickly if you are working in it frequently).

 

[HKCHEF]

Most of what is on the market is not a safe but a RSC (Residentual Security Container). Real safes have TL-Ratings are much heavier then their similar sized RSC counterparts. Some examples would be Graffunder and Amsec HS safes. Fort Knox, liberty, Winchester, canon, big store brand models can all be taken or broken into relatively easily with the right tools and know how.

With that said if buying a large "safe" get (reputable RSC manufaturer) heaviest RSC you can afford and spend the rest on general home security BG's are looking for easy prey so if you have dogs, motion lights, monitored alarm, good locks (medeco, abloy, multi-lock) your RSC's level of security will be less crucial.

Also if you do purchase a RSC bolt it down and don't put it in your garage if you can avoid it. If your looking for a small RSC or safe your best bet is something hidden very well or secured in concrete flush with your foundation. Amsec makes some good wall and floor products.

 

[drmarkr]

I bought this one at Costco:

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Produc..._Price|1||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-US&Sp=C&topnav=

Free delivery. 47 cu ft. 70min fire prot. Holds 30+ long guns. You'll have a tough time beating it for the money.

 

[BackTracker]

A NOTE ABOUT "SAFES"
None of the "safes" especially gun safes, and even more so cheap safes (Ill just go with under 2500.00) are really safes. To be a safe they must meet certain criteria from bodies such as Underwriter Labs. This is also known as "UL listed". For more specifics as in what the actual tests entail feel free to google as I am shooting from the hip on what I remember from researching safes. The Safe I use at my Office is an AMSEC and is an actual UL Listed Safe. My gun cabinet is UL listed as an RSC to withstand entry for 30 minutes I believe with common tools such as a hammer and a short prybar. (mine is a halfway decent RSC but in no way a Fort Knox, or an AMSEC)

FIRE RATING
Anyhow fire ratings vary drastically as well and there is no real standard for measuring the fireproofing in a safe. Though there are several certificating bodies that do fire testing. Depending on what you keep in the safe it may not matter much as i believe the temperature cannot rise above the temperature that will start to singe paper. Things that burn at lower temperatures will be lost significantly sooner than whatever the fire rating is. Another problem with the fire rating system is that some companies gradually turn up the heat, others toss it in at full heat. So the results vary wildly.Moreover should the fire department show up and hose down the area including your safe your safe will be saturated if it isn't at least resistant to water, and you will lose whatevers in it due to water damage if the fire doesnt get it.

THE STEEL
Most RSC's use a thin gauge 12 or thinner sheet metal on the walls. Higher end RSC's use a 10 or even an 8 gauge steel. It's my understanding that punching through 12 gauge steel is pretty easy with a fire axe. Most people on this board know how easy it would be to get through 12 gauge steel with a sawzall and drill that they got out of your own garage to rob you with. Remember UL listing on an RSC is with NO power tools and a SHORT prybar. So an RSC rated at 30 minutes is just a guy his prybar and a hammer. Real Safes use steel plate instead of sheetmetal for a reason, and they charge accordingly. The weight addition is something spectacular as well.

MY SAFE (really an RSC)
I picked up a Browning Bronze series at Sports Authority.

http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/gunsafes/detail.asp?value=002F&cat_id=160&type_id=42731

Browning homepage
http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/catalog.asp?catalog_=F

http://www.sportsauthority.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3810630

It isn't the worlds best RSC but it does offer a bit of fire protection and keeps tiny hands off the guns. Additionally it will at least keep the smash and grabbers out and annoy the pro for 20-30 minutes. It has some real good features like force deflection from the locking bolts. 3 sided one inch door bolts. It has a really tight fit on the door so it's harder to get a prybar in it. It's got a reinforced integrated door frame that I thought looked weak but better than some of the real **** I have seen floating around. Best of all it was only 1100 bucks for a reasonable RSC. I keep it walled in on all sides but the front to avoid puncture attacks to it's thin sides and the door is plenty beefy for Joe Blow to have problems with.

The safe I wanted was an AMSEC American Sec. which instead of having fireboard AKA drywall, uses a concrete fill. The decent model started at 2500 and was best in class. I messed around with a cross section of it one da and was impressed by the lack of gaps in its fire protection. It also had an extremely thick plate of steel on the door, whereas my browning and most other RSC's (residential security cabinets) just use rolled over and formed sheet metal.

Anyhow, I'm by no means an expert but I did do a bit of research before I bought and the bought the most I could afford. And remember, the safe is only PART of the equation!!! Make it as much of a pain in the *** as possible with layers of security!

 

[Torque1st]

Some local locksmiths have used safes for sale. See if you can locate a locksmith that moves or works on safes. They may be more likely to have them.

There are small lock boxes with fire ratings that can be placed inside a larger safe.

 

[earthtech]

Don't skimp on a safe. Buy the very best you can and larger then you need they get filled up quick.

 

[CD1]

Here are a couple more places to gather info on safes:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=6&f=46

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunsafes.html

HTH

 

[OGJordan]

I found this on craigslist and thought it was interesting. Don't know if anyone is in this area or not, but: http://northmiss.craigslist.org/spo/2286331253.html

 

[5lima30]

My advice is buy american even if it is used, also weight is your friend.