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Do your ceiling fans interfere with lighting?

Wakesurfer

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Jul 10, 2013
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40
I am planning on lighting a finished, 30' x 45' garage (11' side wall height sloping to 16' in the center section) with 21 flourescent (8' 4 tube T8) fixtures. I was planning on using 2 60" ceiling fans for additional circulation. My questions are: If the fans blades overlap some of the lights, will the shadows of the blades cause a lot of flickering of the light below? How much of a factor is fan distance from the ceiling? I know it would be distracting at low speeds with can lights, but I didn't know if I would have enough light at different angles to keep shadows and flickering to a minimum (like at large warehouses). Anyone have advice/experience with this?
 
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kbs2244

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Nov 11, 2006
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Try it out with a garage sale fan before you spend a lot of money.
The moving shadows bother some guys but not others.
Also think about smaller fans in between the lights.
Then you will not get the shadows.
 

2ManyProjects

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Jul 18, 2013
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I am planning on lighting a finished, 30' x 45' garage (11' side wall height sloping to 16' in the center section) with 21 flourescent (8' 4 tube T8) fixtures.

That is a veritable "Metric Buttload" of light: Nearly 175 lumens/ft.^2, presuming "normal" F32T8 tubes. I do hope that you're planning to wire them up into at least three or four separately switched banks (and NOT just on a "zone by zone" basis, but WITHIN each "zone" as well).

I was planning on using 2 60" ceiling fans for additional circulation. My questions are: If the fans blades overlap some of the lights, will the shadows of the blades cause a lot of flickering of the light below?

It would depend mostly on the vertical displacement between the fan blades and the lights. The larger that difference, the less severe the shadows formed by the blades (as long as the blades still remain WELL above your head, of course). You MIGHT also occasionally see an exaggerated effect IF the rotating speed of the blades causes the "shutter closings" (so to speak) to EXACTLY sync up with the 120 Hz flashes of the lights themselves; but the odds on this being a practical problem are exceedingly slim.

How much of a factor is fan distance from the ceiling?

The ceiling itself is irrelevant, unless that's where the lights are.

I know it would be distracting at low speeds with can lights, but I didn't know if I would have enough light at different angles to keep shadows and flickering to a minimum (like at large warehouses).

Again, it would depend on the actual geometry involved. With that many lights, I suspect you're going to have enough different "effective sources" lighting up any one spot on the floor that it won't be a major problem, as long as the blades are at least a few feet below the lights.

If you're REALLY that paranoid about it, fabricate some replacement blades out of clear Lexan. ;)

 

jbs

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Jun 1, 2009
Messages
208
Location
NW AR
I actually have noticed this effect, but it is very slight.

I have 60 T8F32 tubes (mostly 4-tube 8-ft strips) spread relatively evenly across the 13' ceiling of my 32x40. The fans (2) are about 3' off the ceiling and the blades do not actually extend over any of the fixtures.

When the fans are running, there is an occasionally (to me) noticeable flicker, like a bad tube off in a corner somewhere. I don't think it is that bad, but it is there. Sort of surprised me given how spread out the light source is.
 
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Wakesurfer

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Jul 10, 2013
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Thanks for the replies and good advice:)

2many, how many 8', 4x4' 32w T8 fixtures would you recommend? I had originally planned fewer lights, but was advised by numerous posters on GF to add fixtures. I was planning on wiring 3 banks of light (2 sides and the center), what is your recommendation?
Thanks
 

Charles (in GA)

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Jan 11, 2006
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Location
50 mi south of Atlanta
Mine are installed so that you cannot get the arc of a fan between you and any one of the lights. Just pure luck on the install, but I did have concerns about this problems. I know if I had a Big *** Fan I would have a problem.

Charles

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2ManyProjects

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2many, how many 8', 4x4' 32w T8 fixtures would you recommend? I had originally planned fewer lights, but was advised by numerous posters on GF to add fixtures.

The usual "Rule of Thumb" for serious workspaces is about 100 lumens/ft.^2 at working height. Your somewhat higher-than usual ceiling (hence presumed mounting height) will impose somewhat greater losses at said "working height" than with lower-mounted lights; but that's OK, since it ALSO inherently makes for better (i.e., more even) light DISTRIBUTION.

So... 30'x45' = 1,350 ft.^2 to cover. To ensure 100 lumens/ft.^2 at working height (and with somewhat aged tubes), I'd arbitrarily aim for about 125-130 source lumens/ft.^2 (you can nail this down more precisely using a lighting calculator; but this should be close enough for a first cut). So that's a total of 168,750-175,500 initial source lumens. Assuming standard F32T8 tubes @ 2,800 initial lumens, that works out to 60-62 tubes.

Obviously, this is indeed just a "first cut", and much depends on the actual layout. That in turn depends on how you're planning to use that space, and exactly what activities will be performed where within it.

One other important note: I'm not sure; but based on some of your other posts I got the impresion that you might have an open-truss ceiling. If so, you'll want to use fixtures which provide SOME sort of reflector, in order to keep from wasting upwards of half the total "lighting power" illuminating the waste space above the fixtures. That said, you don't necessarily need "High Bay" fixtures; and I probably would not recommend them given the fact that not ALL of your ceiling is up at the 16-foot level.

I was planning on wiring 3 banks of light (2 sides and the center), what is your recommendation?

What you're describing is commonly called "zoning"; and it can make a lot of sense in larger workspaces which are often sparsely occupied. But in your case, the space isn't REALLY all that big; so I would consider it somewhat less useful than being able to vary the lighting intensity throughout the space, as needed on a day-by-day basis. Typically, I recommend three switch banks per workspace (or "per zone"): Some minimal amount of "walk-through" lighting on one switch (which can cover all zones, even if also doing zoning); about 30-40% of the "main" lighting on a second switch; and the remaining 60-70% of the main lighting on a third switch. The fixtures assigned to each of these switch banks should be distributed more-or-less as evenly as possible throughout the controlled area. Typically, that means something approximating an "every other fixture" approach; but it is often useful to "fudge" that somewhat depending on, again, the exact way the space will really be utilized (and also, such influences as open garage doors, skylights & windows, etc. -- in other words, put the light where it will be most needed). Ideally, you want to do both zoning and intensity control; but that can lead to a LOT of switches to flip, unless using something like Insteon to control things. So if you're not comfortable with either of those prospects, I'd go with (at least mostly) the intensity-control approach.

 
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Wakesurfer

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Jul 10, 2013
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Great info!

My trusses are scissor with a flat 10' section in the middle, but the WILL be finished and painted a light color. My thought behind the zones is because 1/3 (longitudinally, West wall) of the garage will be for my boat and not normally an area that will need light. I am planning a 2-post lift on the other side (East wall) and workspaces along the East wall as well. I may have to re-think the total bay light plan and wire some of the lights as you described (spread some light everywhere) and concentrate more in the work area. I'll update as I get it done - May be a while!!!
 

2ManyProjects

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Jul 18, 2013
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757
Great info!

My trusses are scissor with a flat 10' section in the middle, but the WILL be finished and painted a light color.

Ahhh... OK. In which case, simple wrap-type fixtures (such as I pointed to in http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3534565&postcount=2) are probably your best bet.

My thought behind the zones is because 1/3 (longitudinally, West wall) of the garage will be for my boat and not normally an area that will need light. I am planning a 2-post lift on the other side (East wall) and workspaces along the East wall as well.

You can still do zoning if you want. It just adds a little complication in terms of the wiring & switching. My point was, I would not do zoning INSTEAD OF intensity control, especially in a relatively small space (and yours is kind'a "on the cusp" in that respect).

The one exception to the above would be your walk-through lighting. Since there will be so few fixtures on that switch anyway, it makes little or no sense to break it up still further into zones.

I may have to re-think the total bay light plan and wire some of the lights as you described (spread some light everywhere) and concentrate more in the work area.

FWIW, some folks have reported that it seems somewhat disconcerting to have part of the space TOTALLY dark, even if they are not working anywhere near there, and the area where they are working is very well-lit.

I'll update as I get it done - May be a while!!!

Do that. ;)

 
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