Does Anybody Stick Weld Anymore?

[earlthegoat2]

Sorry, your right I was misinformed....to say that. What I meant was that there is no MIG process that is AWS pre-certified for Structural Steel welding. (over 1/8")There is a workaround MIG can still be done to AWS specification with some kind of a record of the welding procedure or what not that has passed AWS inspection.

I made the mistake of using the term "X ray inspection" to mean the X ray inspection of structural steel which is what I have direct experience with. X ray inspection can be used anywhere welds are done and the specifications that the welds to be inspected need to meet vary from manufacturer to manufacturer.

Also, when I say MIG I mean Gas Metal Arc Welding (GMAW) not Flux-Cored Arc Welding (FCAW). FCAW also has an AWS pre-cert for Structural Steel. Innershield is a flux core wire. I was referring to GMAW, not FCAW in my previous post. I don't know many folks who interchange the terms MIG and flux cored but I guess it could be ambiguous.

I understand that FCAW can also be used with shielding gas. I don't think we are ready to go down that road yet.

Anyway, thank you for demanding more clarification because I was definitely being too vague and general and did not use proper terms.

 

[GaryM909]

Quite often they are using a Lincoln SST or a Miller RMD for the root pass on the gathering lines for some of the Sagd plants in northern Alberta. Then they are then using Fcaw (flux core with shielding gas) for the fill and cap. All 100% RT.
I did 2 job tests today for a fab shop. One was Smaw- 6010 root 7018 fill & cap- 6g. The other was Gmaw root, Smaw fill and cap (7018).

 

[64merc]

I took a CE night class at a college a few years ago and it sounds like the class in question is very similar. We spent most of the time on stick, because the instructors said it was much harder to learn (correctly) than MIG, and the class time would be an oportunity to get help. Also, a decent stick welder is fairly cheap so they figured that is what most of the guys would be buying.

 

[Engine]

I took a basic welding class a few years ago as part of an industrial maintenance associates degree.

As I recall, the four month class was organized like this in order of process and amount of time spent on each:
6010 & 7018 beads on flat plate, all positions, 30%;
GMAW, flat plate, all positions, 20%;
gas welding, 5%;
Gas cutting, 5%;
Plasma cutting, 5%;
Air/arc gouging, 5%;
Stick and mig open root beveled **** joint and bend testing, 20%;
Running metal shear, grinder, and bandsaw, 10%.
Messing up = 100% of the time.

 

[All]

Stick weld...but of course. I can't even imagine trying to switch wire out in a mig for many of the smaller welding jobs that pop up. Cast iron, tool steel, hard facing, and structural all benefit from different rods. Got a bolt broken off deep in there, grab a stick of extractalloy and be done with it. Stick welding is just too versatile a solution to die and specialty rods are, well just that, special and damn nice to have. Ed.

Exactly this.

The cost in time to change spools, feed rollers, tips, cups, etc on a mig machine just to do a quick tack on a different material, plus the cost in consumables like shielding gas, just isn't worth the trouble.

Grab the right stick, dial in the heat, done.

 

[Lelandwelds]

I can tig, got one, a 300 synch. Havnt used it in 15 years.

Ooh, thats an oldie but goodie! The old chest of drawers original Syncrowave. I remember when it changed the tig world. Nice!

 

[mbshop]

I can do without all of it except my gas setup. Learned on stick and gas. Had a mig in the shop that collected dust. But it really comes down to what you need to do. But as mentioned, learning the basics is critical.

 

[Lelandwelds]

I enjoy reading these post but I must say a lot of people do not get out of their little corner of the world. The welding world is a lot bigger and more diverse than you realize.

Lots of oddball "obsolete" welding processes are still being done: atomic hydrogen,stir welding, carbon arc, friction welding, thermite, induction hardening, furnace brazing, plasma welding, oxy acetylene powder hardfacing, explosive cladding, etc

Lots of people use the "wrong" process for very good reasons: subarc on a water tower in the field, dual shield mig on a pipeline in the field, solid wire with 98/2 on bridge components, ac mig on deep narrow groove plate, aluminum mig with a conventional mig gun, tandem arc mig with one ac and one dc arc, sub arc on 20 ga water heaters, resistance welding on bridge components, 10,000 amp resistance welders, spot welders with a roller pressure wheel, electron beam, etc.

Dont dismiss the oxyfuel cutting process. One company successfully cut steel thirty FEET thick with oxy fuel..

I think it is tragic so many people own Lincoln tombstones. That is the single most crappy welder I have used. Get a Miller! Or, the Lincoln with the big silver wheel on the front.

How can so many people stand to use self shielded mig wire?

 

[Grimly]

It's true what has been said about MIG being the easiest to learn, at least to some standard of things not falling apart.
In about 1982 I'd never used MIG, and as one poster observed, nobody had one at home, and the only places you came across them were in industry.
Luckily enough, I was working as a generator tech which was right next door to (owned by) a company that made structural cabs for earthmovers. The genset company had a relatively little MIG of its own, but nobody used it, and I suggested that I'd like to learn how.
One of the welders next door spent some time instructing me, on one of the big old MIGs of the day (a Butters or BOC machine, I'm unsure which, but it was probably around 300A max rating). Now, I'd already been used to arc and gas, but this was something else. Woohoo. It was magical.
Those massive old industrial machines were full of huge copper windings and some fairly basic appearing but very cleverly designed controls, and in the right hands (not mine, I hasten to add), they could sing.
Even I, after some initial getting used to it, could cheerfully weld repair sections on thin cowlings without blowing holes everywhere. That was the incredible thing about those machines - they could go from fairy-like tickling of the steel to full-on blasting metal and be very controllable while doing it.
I loved using those old industrial heavy MIGs and have never encountered a home or lighter machine that could come close to them for controllability. Until now - by all accounts the latest breed of fully electronic MIGs can do just about anything the old ones could do, and at a fraction of the cost. Until they break, of course. That's one thing the older machines had, and still have, in their favour - if they break, they can be fixed.
Best of luck trying to get some repair parts for a cheap electronic wonder, and if it's an expensive electronic wonder, the cost of repairs will make your eyes bleed.
That said, after a few years of having a hobby MIG, I've decided to get a fairly decent old-school transformer machine while I can still get one. As it stands, at the moment, the really reliable electronic ones are still priced out of my reach.
I seem to have drifted from the OP's query - I'd say my early gas welding experience helped a lot in picking up MIG skills, and because I'd been using arc for years, it was probably useful too.

 

[sberry]

I was a career stick welder, I resisted for a long time. Once I used them I had to have one.

 

[Honest Bob]

 

[tarbellb]

I think what may be the issue isnt the class, but what topic you really wanted to learn.


Seems you probably would benefit more from a "Fabrication + Welding" class:

Learn cut, grind, layout, techniques for general metal fabrication with MIG welding (maybe include TIG).

Because really if you are just trying to learn how to MIG weld thats a single day class, its all the other sh*t before you pull the trigger that needs to be learned.

 

[wrenchguy]

********. I've worked in ASME and AWS certified shops and done X-ray MIG work in both. Oshkosh Truck, a defense contractor in this area requires prospective welders to pass an x-ray MIG test to be considered for employment. Innershield was invented to weld ship hulls. Bridges and water towers are partially prefabbed in shops using various MIG processes. You're grossly misinformed.

Any welding process can be subjected to x-ray inspection if the manufacturer or end user determines it to be a critical application.

this guy might laid some pipe in his day!

 

[wrenchguy]

angry pixies outa the wall

 

[stioc]

Started with MIG but picked up a Miller buzzbox...I enjoy stick welding more now, it's way quicker and less fussy (dirty metal, wind, no gas needed etc), though not as pretty, well my welds anyway. My buzzbox will only be replaced if I move up to a stick/tig setup. In fact, I know a few people that can do scratch TIG with the buzz box.

 

[dnschmidt]

Ducksface I am not about to write a "scathing letter" However I did offer three suggestions to the teacher with which he almost entirely agreed. These were:

1) Instead of requiring students to buy 10 pounds each of 6013 1/8" and 3/32" rod they should change this to 5 pounds each of the 6013 and then 5 pounds each of 7018 in the same two diameters. Once you can run a bead of 6013 time to move up to what the real world actually uses is my thought on this. Also a pound each of 6010 or 6011 in both sizes seems like a good idea to me for the same reason as that's what's used for root passes.

2) Instead of requiring two 20ft sticks of 2" wide 1/8" material they should require one stick and another stick of 1/16" material. This would make the gas welding portion of the course less irrelevant since most people are never going to gas weld 1/8" or thicker material when you can use either stick or MIG for that purpose and they are ten times as fast. 1/16" material would be ideal for gas as it would speed things up instead of waiting forever for the puddle to form and the 1/16" material would be great for the TIG portion of the program as well. 1/8" TIG is certainly doable but 1/16" is more in its breadbasket.

3) Increase the MIG to two weeks and cover some out of position welding with Stick as well as MIG. Right now in Arc, MIG, and OX everything is done flat. Well, the ancient Greeks theorized that the world was not flat and welding happens in positions other than flat.

Man that was SCATHING.

 

[earlthegoat2]

6013 is not an electrode I would ever use in a welding class. Is it only included as a confidence booster?

I never touched a 6013 rod until I was well out of welding school. It was all 6010 and 7018 for the entire SMAW class. When I got into general fabrication and equipment repair, 6011 was real easy to start using having used so much 6010.

 

[D1005]

Let's see, I'm not rich like everyone else wants to appear to be, so yes, I stick weld with a 40 year welder the vast majority of the time and use oxy/acetylene of the same age once in a while, but mostly for heating.....

 

[Tennessee Cattleman]

Stick weld with a Miller Thunderbolt AC-DC, sold the Miller Mig. The mig was fussier with rust, wind, maintenance and consumables.

 

[Earp69]

Last place I worked we had 7 or 8 big Lincoln and Miller wire feeds,only 1 Lincoln stick welder that was from 1959. Every ***** in the place would screw up the wire feed welders so if you needed to Weld something up you spent 15 mins fixing the welder. Then the retards would always leave the gas on, so after you fix the welder you gotta change the tank out. I got tired of that real fast and got pretty handy with the stick welder since nobody used it for 1.and for 2 if they did use it there was nothing they could **** up.

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[86turbodsl]

I am a career welder. Its different than wanting to do hobby maintenance stuff. I could really do about all the work I do with a 200A feeder. I use stick for other reasons, field work, pull up on the apron, sometimes just cause I can. Great overhead.
But hard wire and gas isn't used on bridges, Innershield is. Its like 7018 on steroids with turbo boost. The quality can be even better, don't have to stop in bad places, can run way more power, rod doesn't change as it burns off. Lots of pipe done with it too. I talked to a carny guy, had a new TB and said its great but could have done without the feeder that became an expensive piece to haul around.
I don't have feeder on my service truck and use a Maxstar where I can. I havnt used gas weld in decades, wire feeder is so much easier faster and cheaper. I kind of agree, some classes could give up a week on it for mig. I agree for a young sprout wanting to be a career welder with field work and construction it pays to be a good stick welder that can pass tests.
This is still my go to shop stick unit, has a stinger that reaches a booth and the bench, has leads to work outdoor.

Jeez, a career welder and your stick welder of choice is a Lincoln tombstone? Really?

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[Crazyjake8493]

90% of what I do is TIG, the other 10% is Stick on thicker/dirty/rusty metal for tractor attachments and heavy frames. I've MIG welded twice in my life, but my goal this year is to do some more MIG work, it would make small repairs quicker and easier.

 

[86turbodsl]

I still use stick a lot. Built a trailer last summer with 7018. It's my go to process. Have a Miller 330 a/bp 450a machine.

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[Fender1325]

I've been welding for 3 years. Self taught and now I do auto restoration, but I only have MIG. I'd love to try stick, gas and Tig

 

[lis2323]

I still have the Forney buzz box my dad bought off the Snap On truck for the farm in 1966 I was 15 at the time and it is all I used for 35 years.

Here it is restored:



I never use it anymore now that I’m retired and have more “modern” welders.

 

[readhead]

When I was doing rework on navy ships I would carry three sizes of 7018 to adjust my heat. When you are working six decks down and half a ship from the machine it isn't practical to adjust the machine to "just right". We would use rods to cut off interference if a torch wasn't handy. I have two stick machines at home that get regular use.

 

[Jim c]

My welding is very basic high school arc welding kind of stuff. But I have found that my stick welders Lincoln tombstone and a small 110 stick welder have been pretty much indispensable. Actually the little 110 is very convenient and works pretty well if I use the skinny little arc welding rods. Guess I have never had experience with other welders tig mig.. heard of them and wondered about them but never needed them.

 

[wrenchguy]

i don't make excuses when i fire up my 2 300 dc amp stick welding machine. i been stick welding 50 years and it still has its place in industry.
video below.







special built 1955 caterpillar welding machine video.

 

[3 Gun Shooter]

i don't make excuses when i fire up my 2 300 dc amp stick welding machine. i been stick welding 50 years and it still has its place in industry.
video below.







special built 1955 caterpillar welding machine video.

I love it, been around Cats for most my life and never remember seeing a Cat welder.

 

[readhead]

It's a Lincoln SAE300 welder. Well two actually.

 

[Roberts210]

..................................I think it is tragic so many people own Lincoln tombstones. That is the single most crappy welder I have used. ..................

They can have my Lincoln tombstone when they can pry it from my cold, dead hands.

 

[86turbodsl]

They can have my Lincoln tombstone when they can pry it from my cold, dead hands. [emoji38]

I agree with Leland. The day I sent my tombstone down the road was a very good day.

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[Alchymist]

I enjoy reading these post but I must say a lot of people do not get out of their little corner of the world. The welding world is a lot bigger and more diverse than you realize.

Lots of oddball "obsolete" welding processes are still being done: atomic hydrogen,stir welding, carbon arc, friction welding, thermite, induction hardening, furnace brazing, plasma welding, oxy acetylene powder hardfacing, explosive cladding, etc

Lots of people use the "wrong" process for very good reasons: subarc on a water tower in the field, dual shield mig on a pipeline in the field, solid wire with 98/2 on bridge components, ac mig on deep narrow groove plate, aluminum mig with a conventional mig gun, tandem arc mig with one ac and one dc arc, sub arc on 20 ga water heaters, resistance welding on bridge components, 10,000 amp resistance welders, spot welders with a roller pressure wheel, electron beam, etc.

Dont dismiss the oxyfuel cutting process. One company successfully cut steel thirty FEET thick with oxy fuel..

I think it is tragic so many people own Lincoln tombstones. That is the single most crappy welder I have used. Get a Miller! Or, the Lincoln with the big silver wheel on the front.

How can so many people stand to use self shielded mig wire?

You missed a process - laser welding.

And that "single most crappy welder" was designed in 1960 and sold over 3 million units, so I guess they weren't too crappy. Learned to weld on one in 1968, and still have the AC/DC one in the garage. Lincoln has been in business for well over 100 years, so they must be doing something right.

 

[matt_i]

90% of what I do is TIG, the other 10% is Stick on thicker/dirty/rusty metal for tractor attachments and heavy frames. I've MIG welded twice in my life, but my goal this year is to do some more MIG work, it would make small repairs quicker and easier.

This is about where I'm at. I put some structural steel into my shop building and have built some rigging stuff and all of those were 7018-based. The Syncro can do it all. I have a mig welder and if I ever come up with something going into production it will probably get used again

 

[dr_clyde]

You missed a process - laser welding.

And that "single most crappy welder" was designed in 1960 and sold over 3 million units, so I guess they weren't too crappy. Learned to weld on one in 1968, and still have the AC/DC one in the garage. Lincoln has been in business for well over 100 years, so they must be doing something right.

Just because something sells well doesn't make it great. Lincoln would be stupid to stop selling them. If you want a decent old Lincoln for cheap, an Idealarc or a 300/300 is light years better.

The Lincoln buzz box is popular because it's cheap, portable and simple. They sell well because people don't know any better. Perfect machine for farmers, home shop guys and minor welding repairs. There's a reason pro shops don't have them though.

Does it weld? Yes. Can you do good work with one? Absolutely. Are they a great welder? Nope.

My dad has one. I learned to stick weld on one. Then I used pro grade gear and haven't touched the Lincoln in years.

 

[wrenchguy]

I love it, been around Cats for most my life and never remember seeing a Cat welder.

i believe it was a marketing experiment by cat starting in 55, with we think 25 built into the early 60's. the later 1's had a smaller d311h power unit while this 1 is a d315 power unit, same as d4 tractors. i believe with research i done, this unit is number 1 of the production. they were originally placed by crane with it being built on trailer as a option. i had axles built and built a trailer around the skid it came on.

It's a Lincoln SAE300 welder. Well two actually.

yes, 2 ganged together inline special ordered by cat... shipped to cat.... built-completed and marketed by cat.

 

[86turbodsl]

Just because something sells well doesn't make it great. Lincoln would be stupid to stop selling them. If you want a decent old Lincoln for cheap, an Idealarc or a 300/300 is light years better.

The Lincoln buzz box is popular because it's cheap, portable and simple. They sell well because people don't know any better. Perfect machine for farmers, home shop guys and minor welding repairs. There's a reason pro shops don't have them though.

Does it weld? Yes. Can you do good work with one? Absolutely. Are they a great welder? Nope.

My dad has one. I learned to stick weld on one. Then I used pro grade gear and haven't touched the Lincoln in years.

Exactly my experience. I didn't lose money on my tombstone and learned to stick with it. That's all I took away from that experience.

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[Kenskip1]

Yes they still do, and I am now one of them.I just purchased a Alpha ST 160 stick welder.I am just learning how to use it.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

Exactly my experience. I didn't lose money on my tombstone and learned to stick with it. That's all I took away from that experience.

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I learned to weld on an AC/DC tombstone like the ones shown (I barely ever used the AC half) - what do you get out of the better tools? full-wave DC?

my welding abilities haven't outgrown a tombstone, that's a fact.

 

[3 Gun Shooter]

i believe it was a marketing experiment by cat starting in 55, with we think 25 built into the early 60's. the later 1's had a smaller d311h power unit while this 1 is a d315 power unit, same as d4 tractors. i believe with research i done, this unit is number 1 of the production. they were originally placed by crane with it being built on trailer as a option. i had axles built and built a trailer around the skid it came on.



yes, 2 ganged together inline special ordered by cat... shipped to cat.... built-completed and marketed by cat.

I know Cat and their dealers built some very interesting equipment over the years.