Does anyone have a "nice" breaker panel ?

[ishiboo]

He's thinking in a different paradigm than you. That's why you're not getting it.
You're thinking within the lines of electrical/building code (which is completely reasonable, since codes exist for good reason), which provide a rigid structure for the "right" way to do things. They provide safe boundaries which can accommodate many ends, but are not the only means.
i.e. you're thinking in Erector Set, and the OP is thinking in Lego.

Here's are some examples of why you might want an outlet in your panel:

Say you wanted to test voltage at different points on the bus. An outlet on the panel would allow you to access this without removing the cover.

Or to power a work light for work in the panel (or a night light, status indication, safety warning, who knows what else...).

But the OP (and I) are not advocating to wire an outlet into a conventional panel (and I'm not saying that the above uses are useful to ME, but perhaps they are useful to someone, which is why providing the option makes some sense to me).
He's suggesting that as an example, a manufacturer could make a circuit breaker module with an outlet built in that you could plug into a more universally modular panel system.

I don't see how this is any different than putting an outlet attached to a steel junction box next to the panel.

You want to test the voltage at "different points on the bus"? How would you do this if the outlet is outside the panel without opening the panel to change its location? Unless something is mechanically clusterfucked the bus has the same voltage at all points. Thus an outlet *right next to* the panel is the same as one on the panel.

And for a work light, night light, etc... I don't see any advantage (and only disadvantages) to having it in the panel itself.

This is a solution looking for a problem.

 

[redmondjp]

Good point made by Greg above - if there is a fire which could be traced back to the electrical panel/system, the insurance agency could use unapproved wiring or non-UL-listed modifications as justification for denying the claim. Is it worth the chance?

 

[rlitman]

I can see where the OP is wanting a "tricked out" breaker box and his ideas are cool.......but the readers need to reminded, that the code is specific about what happens inside the breaker box enclosure. Adding a receptacle with any part of the receptacle/box penetrating in to a breaker box that was "not installed as part of the manufacturer's design" ...... gets questionable to the AHJ... Ammeters, CT's, voltmeters, yep, way cool .......

It will not take them long to see unapproved wiring measures/devices on or inside the breaker box...

Except he's not asking to do makeshift modifications to his panel.
And you're right, doing that is just plain nuts, and would clearly not stand up to an investigation after his house burned down. I hope it is clear that I am not advocating such nonsense either.

He's asking why the MANUFACTURERS do not offer more options. The manufacturer certainly COULD engineer such a solution, and have it UL certified, after which point he could buy and install it.

The problem is that as stated above, this is a solution in search of a problem that has already been well solved.
Much of this is an "upgrade" of little value, while at great cost, so if a profit cannot be made on selling it, nobody is going to make it.

 

[Stoshu]

Clean and white. Lots of room left

 

[gpflepsen]

Clean and white. Lots of room left

Ya got a big smudge down there. Other than that, nice brightener upper. [emoji3]

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[3rdgen]

I'm willing to bet you can get a panel exactly the way you want,your just going to have to pay for it. If you can get a hold of a sales rep for a manufacture they will be able to help you out. We get custom panels built all the time with different things added into to them, some of the Eaton ones can even hooked up to your network for real time power usage. It all depends on how much you want to pay. Also the problem with anything out of the normal is getting parts, we had someone a couple months ago with a really weird panel that shouldn't have even passed inspection. Long story short it took 3 days to get a replacement breaker for their heat pump.

 

[rlitman]

We get custom panels built all the time with different things added into to them, some of the Eaton ones can even hooked up to your network for real time power usage. It all depends on how much you want to pay. Also the problem with anything out of the normal is getting parts, we had someone a couple months ago with a really weird panel that shouldn't have even passed inspection. Long story short it took 3 days to get a replacement breaker for their heat pump.

Square D PowerLogic PM800? That's what I have at work in a custom Eaton panel for real time network power usage.

Yeah, it's a nice piece of kit, but you're right, its about as easy to find parts for it, as it is to find plutonium in a corner drugstore. But that's because it is custom. Not a modular system (like a normal panel).

It's also not residential sized by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Dragfluid]

B Y O or B R BL both in one panel hurts my head for some reason.

Im not a sparky

Hugh?

 

[3rdgen]

Square D PowerLogic PM800? That's what I have at work in a custom Eaton panel for real time network power usage.

Yeah, it's a nice piece of kit, but you're right, its about as easy to find parts for it, as it is to find plutonium in a corner drugstore. But that's because it is custom. Not a modular system (like a normal panel).

It's also not residential sized by any stretch of the imagination.

I honestly couldn't tell you I usually just get to bolt the pieces together and mount everything and makes sure it works, I believe it was was all Eaton though as we don't use square d much unless speced. And as for residential size last year we installed at 1200amp 120/240volt service in a house. ( wasn't allowed to take pics) but that's the first 1200 amp 120/240 service I've ever seen

 

[Stuart in MN]

Another possibility is one of the meters from https://electroind.com I've used their Shark 200 on a couple applications.

 

[MikeF2316]

You can always tell a Canadian panel by the lack of a door on the larger ones.

Is that a code thing? Or are they just not required in Canada so they don't include them to save a few bucks? Mine has a homemade wooden door that covers a recess that the panel is in and hides its unsightlyness. But the door (made by the previous homeowner) does not really look much better.

 

[redmondjp]

Hugh?

He is referring to the color codes used for the different phase conductors.

B Y O = Brown, Yellow, Orange, used for 277/480V 3 phase

B R Bl = Black, Red, Blue, used for 120/208V 3 phase

You would not see these colors in the same panel, unless you were at a transformer.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Beat me to it!

 

[rlitman]

I honestly couldn't tell you I usually just get to bolt the pieces together and mount everything and makes sure it works, I believe it was was all Eaton though as we don't use square d much unless speced. And as for residential size last year we installed at 1200amp 120/240volt service in a house. ( wasn't allowed to take pics) but that's the first 1200 amp 120/240 service I've ever seen

Sorry, I was thinking of a Schneider custom panel here with the Square D PowerLogic.
Eaton is CH (must have gotten the two mixed up in my head). I have a couple of panels from Eaton/CH with custom Kirk Key interlocks, but no CTs inside those (only downstream) ...

1200A residential?!? Hot damn!

Another possibility is one of the meters from https://electroind.com I've used their Shark 200 on a couple applications.

I've got a few of their Nexus meters (model 1272, TOS revenue and power quality recording). SWEET gear, and REALLY nice people to deal with! I got a tour of their factory and training by their engineers when we bought them a few years back. They engineer AND build everything on Long Island in Westbury NY, and the revenue quality meters they sell (at least) all individually go through a rigorous burn-in and calibration there.

 

[Norcal]

Is that a code thing? Or are they just not required in Canada so they don't include them to save a few bucks? Mine has a homemade wooden door that covers a recess that the panel is in and hides its unsightlyness. But the door (made by the previous homeowner) does not really look much better.

American & Canadian main breaker panels seem to differ on a couple of things, 1) Canukistani panels having a separate compartment for the main that branch circuits are not permitted in, 2) they also seem to lack doors for reasons unknown to me.

I would like to see some guarding of the main lugs ahead of the circuit breaker for service entrance applications but the way it's done in Canada is way over the top for me, the lack of a door may be because they are sometimes mounted sideways which is strictly forbidden in the US by the NEC.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

b y o or b r bl both in one panel hurts my head for some reason.

Im not a sparky

b-o-y 480/277,b-r-bl 208

 

[Dragfluid]

Is that a code thing? Or are they just not required in Canada so they don't include them to save a few bucks? Mine has a homemade wooden door that covers a recess that the panel is in and hides its unsightlyness. But the door (made by the previous homeowner) does not really look much better.

The reason is quite simple, really.
If a breaker trips during a hockey game, killing the TV, seconds count! Why have a pesky door in the way?!

 

[Dragfluid]

He is referring to the color codes used for the different phase conductors.

B Y O = Brown, Yellow, Orange, used for 277/480V 3 phase

B R Bl = Black, Red, Blue, used for 120/208V 3 phase

You would not see these colors in the same panel, unless you were at a transformer.

I'm assuming you're talking about my panel? The "classic" one doesn't have much color at all, save for a little red in one conductor.
I must be pretty dense then, because I don't see those colors (colours for up nort) in there.

 

[MikeF2316]

American & Canadian main breaker panels seem to differ on a couple of things, 1) Canukistani panels having a separate compartment for the main that branch circuits are not permitted in, 2) they also seem to lack doors for reasons unknown to me.

I would like to see some guarding of the main lugs ahead of the circuit breaker for service entrance applications but the way it's done in Canada is way over the top for me, the lack of a door may be because they are sometimes mounted sideways which is strictly forbidden in the US by the NEC.

I just have a metal shield that is held in place with 2 screws over the main lugs. It doesn't seem too over the top to me.

So what's with mounting a panel sideways? Mine is what I consider upside down, with the main breaker at the bottom. Also breaker #1 is the bottom right!

The reason is quite simple, really.
If a breaker trips during a hockey game, killing the TV, seconds count! Why have a pesky door in the way?!

 

[Norcal]

I just have a metal shield that is held in place with 2 screws over the main lugs. It doesn't seem too over the top to me.

So what's with mounting a panel sideways? Mine is what I consider upside down, with the main breaker at the bottom. Also breaker #1 is the bottom right!

"Upside down" is where the feed is at the bottom and the main lugs / breaker is at the top or vice-versa, leaving a excess amount of cable in the gutter.

 

[gjbuilder]

I can see where the OP is wanting a "tricked out" breaker box and his ideas are cool.......but the readers need to reminded, that the code is specific about what happens inside the breaker box enclosure. Adding a receptacle with any part of the receptacle/box penetrating in to a breaker box that was "not installed as part of the manufacturer's design" ...... gets questionable to the AHJ... Ammeters, CT's, voltmeters, yep, way cool .......but ?

I think many will agree that most times whenever there is a fire that destroys a home to the extent that it takes a thorough investigation by the fire investigation AHJ....., they go to the electrical systems first to look for the source of ignition.....

It will not take them long to see unapproved wiring measures/devices on or inside the breaker box. Nor will it take them long to find out if the box was the original or had been replaced with all the approved permits and inspections.... or not. All evidence that can/will be given to the owners insurance agent for their review if requested. Being too much of a worry wart here ? Maybe. But not totally void of the possibility of it happening. Why risk "tricking out" ones breaker box ? Just get one custom built by Sq. D if it has to be, with all the tricks listed above installed and UL listed and approved. JMO though

(op here)

Absolutely agreed. I would never consider building this myself or having it custom made or jury-rigged. I *know* that can be done ... I am trying to find a higher degree of function and design *within an existing UL/code product*.

The paneltronics products I posted the link to appear to fit the bill, except for the fact that while each individual component is fully UL-compliant, the entire installation (that is, the whole rack) is *not* ... so it probably wouldn't fly.

I appreciate the comments and suggestions, though ... I'll definitely post when I have something installed

 

[jeffmoss26]

I have never seen any rackmount power distribution stuff besides what is used for touring audio and lighting (cam-locks, twistlocks, etc)

 

[sands35]

Finally, there's no indicators for usage or load or ... anything. Sometimes I really do need to know the power draw that the entire house is using, and it's common these days for folks to be measuring electricity usage for various efficiency purposes ... and the only sensible place to do it is right there in the panel. It would be cheap and easy to build that in, but doesn't exist ...

These seem like no-brainers to me ...

Yes there are. Not that expensive - IF you know how to use an Arduino or similar. There are DIY and kick-starter type kits available. But for 99% of home-owners, it just doesn't matter. Maybe if electricity prices are 2-4X what they are now. I guess it would be cool to have an LED in the breaker to shine or pulse or something if current if flowing.

 

[Dragfluid]

Install one of these to indicate current flow.

 

[gpflepsen]

Install one of these to indicate current flow.

I tried that but most of my circuits are too low of voltage.

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