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Does concrete's weight change as it cures?

Sureshot

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We are looking to move some cured concrete. We know what the mix weighs going in but need to get a rough calculation what it will weigh when set up. My thoughts are it will be 90% of the original weight. This mix is just Portland and water with no aggregate.
 
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brownbagg

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its lighter but not by must, concrete is roughly 145 lbs per cu ft depending on mix design, so fully cure it be about 144.4 lbs per cu ft
 
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Sureshot

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How much does concrete weigh?
Fresh concrete weighs about 3900 pounds per cubic yard using normal weight aggregates. It weighs about 3500 to 3700 pounds per cubic yard when cured.

http://www.aximconcrete.com/default.aspx?pageid=46

So in the case of having aggregate it retains 90-95% of its weight. What is the normal mix of aggregate, cement, and water in a "normal" mix?

This stuff is mixed at 1900kg/m3 and is just cement and water. Since a good portion of the volume is aggregate it is likely that a person would see a 20-30% reduction in weight, possibly more.
 

racingtadpole

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If it has no agg, its mortar. Mortar weighs 2100kg/m3. If it has no reo in it, all I can say is good luck moving it. Mortar has ****** all elasticity and and no strength in any way except in compression.

When we move pre-cast concrete at work we allow 2300kg/m3 dry weight.
 
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buening

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Mortar typically involves sand and often times lime. With only cement and water, it'll just crumble when you try to lift it as it will have very little bond strength.
 
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Sureshot

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It is oilwell cement that is mixed at 1900kg/m3 max to cement pipe in place. Some of it is mixed lighter so I would like to get a percentage to apply to each batch. This is the excess that is waste. It does crumble and has very little strength away from its intended purpose.

I am looking for how much of the water is retained when it hydrates.
 

Hockeyman

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Mixing cement in a wheel barrel i was surprised by how little water was needed. IMO the cement will never be completely without water weight. I think Brownbagg 's answer above at 145#cu.ft. wet and 144.4#cu.ft.dry to be correct but can't find my book to confirm..
 

buening

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The only water that evaporates will be on the very outer layers depending on where the concrete is placed. This evaporation would only occur on a slab exposed to direct sunlight or if the concrete is placed in very dry soil. The change in weight is miniscule and in my opinion should not be accounted for. Common concrete weight is as mentioned above as 145 lb/cu ft.

The chemical reaction converts the water and cement (tricalcium silicate) to calcium silicate hydrate and calcium hydroxide and heat. Essentially, no water is left in the concrete after all chemical reactions have occurred. Due to the law of conservation of mass, no mass in the slurry is lost from the chemical reaction. Thus, assuming the surrounding soil is moist and is not exposed to direct sunlight you should not lose any water initially and definitely none as it cures.
 
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Sureshot

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Thanks. That was my thinking as well. What is the source of the humidity in a building when you place concrete? Would it be some evaporation from the heat? Or from the water on the surface to keep it wet?
What then is the purpose of wetting a pad? Strictly to offset evaporation and prevent drying?
Walks us through the science of setting a pad if you would. In this case we are contained in metal.
What could we put on the metal to prevent it from bonding. It would have to be enviromentally friendly. Fluid film or canola oil is our thoughts.
 

buening

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I'm not sure about the humidity in a building other than typically wet forms and the base prior to pouring, which will bring up the humidity.

You typically wet the forms and base to prevent them from sucking moisture from the concrete. You typically want to cover the slab to prevent evaporation from heat, assuming the slab is not in a controlled climate.

Not sure about an environmentally friendly debonder. Adobreak is one formula but it is bituminous base that is applied to the steel to form a sheath. Most debonders are bituminous from what I've found in my industry.
 
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JoeShmoe

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Originally posted by racingtadpole:
"When we move pre-cast concrete at work we allow 2300kg/m3 dry weight."

so since 1m = 39.37 in /(36 in /yd) = 1.09361 yd and 1kg = 2.2 lbs,
then 2300 x 2.2 / (1.09361)3 = 5060 / 1.308 = 3868.5 lbs/ cu yd x (1 cu yd /27 cu ft)
= 143.3 lbs / cu ft dry mix.

Quikrete informs that an 80 lb bag of dry mix yields 0.60 cu ft of concrete.

I use bags of Quikrete that yield 0.75 cu ft (thus 100 lbs /bag) each, for fence posts.
I add about 1.5 gallons of water to each such bag and mix in a wheelbarrow.
The 1.5 gal water adds about (1.5 x 62.4 /7.48) = 12.5 lbs weight to the mix.

Thus, 100 lbs dry mix = 100 /143.3 = 0.7 cu ft and, after adding water,
cures to 0.75 cu ft weighing 112.5 lbs, assuming no evaporation of water (per buening post " you should not lose any water",
ie, 112.5 /0.75 = 150 lbs /cu ft., as widely accepted rule of thumb.

IOW, mixing in the water and curing adds about 7% in volume (0.75 /0.70)
while adding 12.5% in weight, thus the increase in density from 143.3 lbs/ cu ft dry to 150 lbs wet, set, and cured ... an increase of about 4.5% in density.
 
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Firebrick43

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water is lost to evaporation if it is exposed, corresponding to a loss in strength due to unavable water for hydration. If a slab is exposed and not kept moist, especially in its first 7 days it will lose half its "mixed" strength as a rule of thumb. On the other hand in ICF forms, the foam remains in place and prevents evaporation. 3000 psi concrete will many times test at 4500psi due to a superior enviroment for the concretes chemical reaction. A 6" icf wall is stronger than an 8" formed wall as the forms are typically removed withing a day or two.

Many ultra high strength concrete products are actually cured in a tank, completely underwater after them enter the plastic stage of curing.

Also rememeber concrete is hydroscopic and readily attracts and retains water if it is in contact with the ground or exposed to rainy weather and may add to it weight.
 

Hopey

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It is oilwell cement that is mixed at 1900kg/m3 max to cement pipe in place. Some of it is mixed lighter so I would like to get a percentage to apply to each batch. This is the excess that is waste. It does crumble and has very little strength away from its intended purpose.

I am looking for how much of the water is retained when it hydrates.

Depends a lot on the cement recipe. Usually free water is undesirable in oilwell cementing, as it leads to poor cement bond and does not provide zonal isolation.
Lead and tail slurries have very different properties. If it's the excess, then it's from a lead slurry for a casing string that was run back to surface (I'm assuming). If it's conductor slurry, then typically these are low density and can have extenders, bonding agents and even nitrogen in them to lower density. If it's from intermediate on lower strings it will have higher compressive strength and also higher weights when wet to deal with hydrostatics associated with well control and formation pressures... 1900kg/m3 isn't a normal oilfield measurement...you in Canada?
 
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brownbagg

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no, not really, you could make the argument of the water evaporation, but it going be less than a quarter pound per square foot
 

Milton Shaw

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It is a lot heavier cured, it's in one piece, before it was by the bucket/wheelbarrow/shovel. LOL
 

Duker

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I offer no meaningful contribution to this thread other than the observation that concrete weight increases are highly correlated to increases in age..... the latest observation I offer as proof was this weekend trying to move 80lb Quikrete which I previously used to toss into the back of my truck with ease now take some effort.....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 

theoldwizard1

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it should be lighter by the weight of the water

NO ! The water does NOT evaporate ! It is part of the chemical reaction that takes place as the concrete cure. This chemical reaction is why the concrete gets warm as it cures.
 

MikeF2316

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There's no doubt that some of the water evaporates, as anyone who's ever done concrete repair in the winter knows by the condensation on their windows!
 

Marctrees

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Obviously some water evaporates, some "water" stays, much of it by chemical change.

This is a perfect example of a query that should have been originally Googled, to find the answer in like 10 minutes.

With attention to tech articles, not like "Houzz" or whatever.

Marc
 

mmb617

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I offer no meaningful contribution to this thread other than the observation that concrete weight increases are highly correlated to increases in age..... the latest observation I offer as proof was this weekend trying to move 80lb Quikrete which I previously used to toss into the back of my truck with ease now take some effort.....

Hey I've noticed that too! Over the years I went from buying the 80# bags to the 60# bags and am now at the 40# bags. They better soon start making it in 20# bags.
 

Marctrees

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From Google search results first page search term - "concrete hydration weight loss"

NORMAL CONCRETE WEIGHT LOSS
By Concrete Construction Staff
Q.: I am working on providing material for crane counterweights. What is considered a normal weight loss (in pounds per cubic foot) for concrete, from say its plastic weight to a normal exposure weight, after perhaps a month or two? My guess would be in the area of a pound or two per cubic foot.

A.: The weight loss will be a reflection of how much water is lost over time. That will depend on the cement content and water-cement ratio of the concrete as well as its service environment.

Consider a cubic yard of concrete with 500 pounds of cement and a water-cement ratio of 0.5, which would include 250 pounds of water. Dividing by 27 cubic feet per cubic yard, we find the water content per cubic foot is 9.25 pounds. Half of that water will go toward hydrating the cement, leaving around 4.5 lbs of water as relative humidity. If you assume that the concrete will still have a relative humidity of 75% to 80% several months into its service life, then you only have about a pound of weight loss.

Remember this estimate is based on several assumptions that may or may not be completely accurate, but in general it supports the conclusion that the weight loss per cubic foot of concrete as a hardened material will be pretty small. Of course, if a small weight change is a concern, you should also remember that if the concrete is exposed to rain, any water it absorbs will increase the weight.
 

joes169

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This is a perfect example of a query that should have been originally Googled, to find the answer in like 10 minutes.

It only took 4.5 years at the Garage Journal to create a muddy answer............:lol:
 

no704

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I poured some 20# weights in cardboard tubes. After cured for a week they came in around 21# after 1 year they were 19.5#.
 
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