Does cost REALLY dictate quality?

[Iluvbeer]

In today’s world, people are CONSUMED with how much they spend on something. They think if they have a more expensive car, motorcycle, tool, clothes, etc etc etc, that they have something better than the next person that paid for a lesser brand. But, is this really true????
I don’t believe it is...

What started this post was I was just on one of my hunting forums that I frequent and seen a feller make a post searching for an expensive brand of knife. Well... this knife he was searching for happens to be about a $250 knife made by a brand if knifes I carry every day. I have carried the same $60 knife for about 10 years now and abuse it daily and it still functions flawlessly. I guarantee nobody uses their EDC knife any harder than I do unless theyÂ’re pounding it with a sledgehammer. Soooo, it got me to thinking why in the heÂ’ll would anyone soend $250 on a knife when there are knives that can and will so the same thing and hold up just as well, for a fraction of the cost?

This relates to tools, too, because I know from experience that you can buy a lesser known tool brand that holds up just as well and pay a hell of a lot less for the same tool.

I’m sorry, but my honest “OPINION” is that today’s society is way too hung up on image than bang for your buck. ItÂ’s all about who can spend the most $$$ for a product who either lives on past reputation or the biggest marketing budget. Truthfully, I think todayÂ’s society is all about who spends the most money.

I’m not trying to start an argument amongst us all, just attempting to open your mind to the possibility that in today’s world that yesterday’s reputation, and today’s marketing budgets shouldn’t really have a heavy weight on the purchasing decisions you make today. Research for yourself, weigh the data, and make a logical decision without the products NAME in consideration. A name is useless other than for show.

 

[Yarpo]

Diminishing returns. There's certainly things that cost and quality do correlate, but at some point the return on your dollar diminishes and you're paying more for status at that point. A 250 dollar knife might be better quality than a 100 dollar knife, but not 2.5 times better, maybe 25 or 30% better (Random numbers, I don't know knifes) but you get the idea. You can see this with tools, TVs, computer parts, etc.

 

[rsanter]

I am all about bang for your buck
I am happy to spend more on something that will last much longer.

I think it is easier than ever with the Internet forums and customer ratings to be able to buy better quality/deal stuff and stay away from the junk

 

[M6erfan]

To me, the key word is VALUE. Something expensive can be a great value, just like something cheap can be a terrible one.

I don't buy $400 Wolverines or a $15 pair of socks to impress others

 

[Negen]

I am not sure you can buy two knifes from sir Tekeshi Saji that are the same.
They range in price from 250-1000$ most are made to order. I do not even believe a pneumatic hammer is used. In some knives completely old world. In a world where skill is forgotten and cost is high. Holding a knife like that every time one cannot help but to think of the skill and time it takes to make such a tool. Although for some reason false Damascus style knifes are being produced by some of the great knife makers this is not a traditional style and is used because it is cool and it sells. It would be nice to are truly folded Damascus knives but I believe the old method is lost. Most are acid etched I believe. A Sukenari ZDP189 is a beautiful knife and if I was in the market and had the money I wouldn't even blink at the 1390 usd price tag.

Tekeda knives are more my price range and still high compared to what wall mart sells.

Takayuki knives are some of the finest in the world and in my mind are priceless. It is amazing what 600 years of traditional blacksmithing can achieve.





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[xin]

If you think a Professional is Expensive ---- Try hiring an AMATEUR.

 

[tanukiboy]

No. But on the other hand, I've always agreed with the saying: "You don't always get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get."

 

[gtsgarage]

I am all about bang for your buck
I am happy to spend more on something that will last much longer.

I think it is easier than ever with the Internet forums and customer ratings to be able to buy better quality/deal stuff and stay away from the junk

This is exactly how I feel, I love quality and bang for the buck.

 

[M6erfan]

I am not sure you can buy two knifes from sir Tekeshi Saji that are the same.
They range in price from 250-1000$ most are made to order. I do not even believe a pneumatic hammer is used. In some knives completely old world. In a world where skill is forgotten and cost is high. Holding a knife like that every time one cannot help but to think of the skill and time it takes to make such a tool. Although for some reason false Damascus style knifes are being produced by some of the great knife makers this is not a traditional style and is used because it is cool and it sells. It would be nice to are truly folded Damascus knives but I believe the old method is lost. Most are acid etched I believe. A Sukenari ZDP189 is a beautiful knife and if I was in the market and had the money I wouldn't even blink at the 1390 usd price tag.

Tekeda knives are more my price range and still high compared to what wall mart sells.

Takayuki knives are some of the finest in the world and in my mind are priceless. It is amazing what 600 years of traditional blacksmithing can achieve.
/QUOTE]

210 Gyuto... Get it while it's hot!

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/sudazdgy21.html

 

[danielbuck]

Diminishing returns. There's certainly things that cost and quality do correlate, but at some point the return on your dollar diminishes and you're paying more for status at that point. A 250 dollar knife might be better quality than a 100 dollar knife, but not 2.5 times better, maybe 25 or 30% better (Random numbers, I don't know knifes) but you get the idea. You can see this with tools, TVs, computer parts, etc.

I agree. The same goes with "How long will this take to make?" Well, if you give me the bare minimum amount of time, I'll make it and it will work. If you give me 2x that amount of time, it will work just as well (and maybe a bit better), but it will also be made better and possibly last longer and look better. If you give me another 2x time to make it... it'll be a work of art.

I use a lot of cheap tools, and a lot of mid range tools, and some expensive tools. I pick and choose where I spend my money.

 

[sk farmer]

If you think a Professional is Expensive ---- Try hiring an AMATEUR.

and this has what to do with the topic at hand?

and yes the use of bold print used with sarcasm.

 

[zendriver]

I’m sorry, but my honest “OPINION” is that today’s society is way too hung up on image than bang for your buck. ItÂ’s all about who can spend the most $$$ for a product who either lives on past reputation or the biggest marketing budget. Truthfully, I think todayÂ’s society is all about who spends the most money.

I believe it's none of my business, what other spend their money on and vice-versa, but to answer the question, IMO not necessarily.

There was a discussion here about a $35,000 pair of bonsai trimming scissors. It's doubtful they're 1000x better than a $35 pair, but if someone wants a pair and can afford it, who cares?

Most expensive tools (e.g. Snap On) have a usually large price markup - for various reasons, so "cost vs quality", is pretty hard to figure out anyway. Are they twice the quality, as another brand, that cost half as much? Probably not, but it does not matter, they are good tools and the people that want them, are willing to pay the price.

 

[gtsgarage]

Seriously go to a watch forum value doesn’t play into the discussion.

 

[BK13]

I’m going to come across as a *****, but when I start getting worked up about what somebody else spent their own money on, that’s an indicator that I should quit paying attention.


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[rsanter]

Years ago a study was done (odds are it was a government funded thing) where they were looking at the difference between people with money (rich people) and the average or below average joe/Jane
Primary was how they spend their money ...etc

After throwing out the whole filthy rich thing where they just piss the money away and it doesn’t matter because so much keeps coming in....

What they found was that people with money tended to buy height quality items that lasted longer ( like furniture and other hard goods) and they they kept them longer because they did not wear out or break.

Another difference was that they went out and bought actual artwork to decorate their houses. After a bunch of years when they got tired of it they sold it and actually made money.
Average/below average people bought a $30 art print at a department store and when they were tired of it it was yard sales for $1

Bob

 

[zendriver]

Years ago a study was done (odds are it was a government funded thing) where they were looking at the difference between people with money (rich people) and the average or below average joe/Jane
Primary was how they spend their money ...etc

After throwing out the whole filthy rich thing where they just piss the money away and it doesn’t matter because so much keeps coming in....

What they found was that people with money tended to buy height quality items that lasted longer ( like furniture and other hard goods) and they they kept them longer because they did not wear out or break.

Another difference was that they went out and bought actual artwork to decorate their houses. After a bunch of years when they got tired of it they sold it and actually made money.
Average/below average people bought a $30 art print at a department store and when they were tired of it it was yard sales for $1

Bob

Seems like a flawed study.

People with money, have a choice, to buy cheap, or expensive stuff.

Poor people really don't.

 

[sberry]

Lots of stuff made today that starts as white box and gets branded, sold in different venues at different prices.

 

[isb cornbinder]

Someone used "Honest opinion". Does this mean that person is suggesting they have dishonest opinions?
There is a point where the additional cost for a machine is dictated by the cost to build a better machine. I run into this situation often in the buy and sell business. Money is made on the purchase price. Selling price has many variables, one of them being the maximum the market will pay. This is where the better quality dictated by reputation of the machine gets a higher price or the better reputation will sell sooner.

So, I would say yes to the original question.

 

[Kev442]

I asked myself the same question today staring at an ad for Milwaukee ratcheting wrenches for $189. It's not like they built their own factory to make them, they are probably Taiwanese, but I wouldn't know.

 

[JUNK-MAN]

I agree. I have been using the same pair of great neck needle nose pliers everyday for 5 or 6 years, i bought them at the dollar store, i have no need or desire for a new or more expensive pair as they have served me well and still do serve me well. On the other side of the coin I would not want any other brand combo wrench than a snap on. The factors that go into me buying something are quality, comfort and availability. Weather it be a tool, a knife, or clothing, and weather it be expensive or cheap.


P.s. love youre avatar!!

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[James-W]

I would say that cost plays a part in everything that is manufactured. The more money someone is willing to pay, the more quality can be put into the item. But that is not to say some items are not overpriced. I think a lot of items that people buy are overpriced. This is just my opinion but I would say many times people buy items simply because of the advertising that went into the ads promoting the item. Certain ads just make you want to buy the product no matter what the cost.

 

[Vvmvbb]

The definition of quality is: "what the customer expects".
If something costs a lot, a lot more is expected.
Corollas and Carreras are both high quality.

 

[MUD DAWG]

The smart money knows best value is found in quality items, without the hype of a brand name.

If you know this, and practice it, then who cares what the other guy does with his money. Like they say, a fool and his money are soon parted.

 

[M6erfan]

Some of the best value and quality are in the off the radar brands. The opposite is found in some of the best known brands.

 

[woody 73]

I have no idea how to answer that question from the op; but I seem to remember either watching or reading somewhere the following. A man has just built a super fantastic Man cave and he filled it with all snap on tools in order to work on his Italian sports car. (keep in mind we are talking tens of thousands in dollars here just for the snap on tools). So the guy invites a couple over to view his Man cave and the other man holds up his head and gives the owner a filthy dirty smug look, (you know that look) and he says you got an Italian sports car and no Italian tools to work on it shame on you!

Take it for what you want...

 

[kctyphoon]

The answer is yes and no. Every item should be evaluated on its own merit. Some items can come cheap and still be made great, some items that are expensive can still be junk. Branding, production volume, amount of competition, supply and demand - will all play a role. Things cost what they cost and in return you get what you get. There is no “rule” that will apply to everything all the time.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

Lower quality goods will usually sell for less..
Better quality goods will usually sell for more.
There are lower quality opinions, and better quality opinions.
There are high price and low price opinions.
Throw this in a mixer, and set the timer for a lifetime.
If You want this stuff to blend; You have best pour plenty of booze into that mixer.

 

[achirdo]

Can't forget about craftsmanship in this discussion. The amount of craftsmanship in a product will also dictate price. For knives for example, sure you can get a $20 knife that cuts halfway decent. You can also spend $2000 or $20000 on a blade that is a beautiful work of art that few people in the world are capable of making.

Rolex watches, rolls royce cars, both have levels of craftsmanship that blow away 99% of other brands and you pay through the nose for it.

Some people buy things solely for the appreciation of the craftsmanship that goes into it.

 

[C4RBON]

Different people have different priorities. If all you see in an object is "utility", your definition of value is utility divided by cost.

Some people place value in other aspects of a purchase. Availability, country of origin, manufacturing ethos, brand image, collecting, etc.

 

[byoungblood]

Truck brand tools are the poster child for this topic. Not to say they aren’t high quality tools, but you’re paying a lot for a business model and for “service” that you may only seldom use.

Diminishing returns sets in around the Wright, S-K, Williams, Proto level.

 

[Rogers954]

I think people should more stock in what they perceive in being quality not the opinions of the masses, but that is up to the person and what they feel is quality

If snap on is what you perceive as being quality and you can afford it then buy it and enjoy, but if you can’t and you have to budget or be more picky about the items you buy because financially you have less options you should not define what you got as being less quality or junk.

I can’t afford snap on tools, i mean i could but it would take me a very long time to get the same amount of tools that i do now, and that wouldn’t help me tomorrow when i need a tool to fix my truck or house. I don’t think the tools that i have now are cheap quality, some of them yes but i went into the purchase expecting that because of the price i paid perfect example a lot of harbor freight tools that i have owned. Do they work? Yes are they quality? Some but defiantly not all by a long shot.

Quality doesn’t always mean cost i think quality more so comes down to the user and what you think is quality. If i bought a tool that i didn’t expect to last long (Hf) and it breaks its easy for me to write it off as cheap, but i knew when i bought it (one time use) that i wasn’t getting the best “quality”

Don’t get me wrong I’d love to have an entire garage full of snap on tools i do think that they are very high quality tools because i have used them for the last 17 years as an Air Force aircraft mechanic, i just can’t justify it because I’m a diy home mechanic. So what it really comes down to is how do i (you) perceive quality for example if say my $10 wrench last me years and always does the job i need it to then I’m going to call it quality, i don’t call it junk just because it’s 1/3 the cost of the same snap on wrench and im not going to care if someone with said Snap-on wrench thinks mine is junk it does what i need it to do so for my money it’s quality.

This is the one thing i love about being a member here when i am looking at a new tool purchase i come here first if members write that it does the job and does it well them to me thats quality, and before joining here i probably thought like a lot of other people brand X must be the best because it’s the most expensive and it has such a big following, i have bought a ton of tools on here that i would have otherwise questioned because of the price, oh it’s only $ and not $$$ it must be junk. Again Hf prime example as a kid i thought all there tools must be junk because they were so cheap and my grandpa always shopped there (he was very frugal) because of real reviews on here i have bought a bunch of there tools that i truly enjoy using


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[MattT]

Quality dictates manufactured cost. It costs more to develop and manufacture a higher quality product.

Once things get to the retail level things can get fuzzy. You've got to make sure you're paying for higher quality rather than an expensive marketing campaign.

 

[michelin]

Cheap, quick, quality - pick two.

Quality made stuff is rarely cheap. Granted you can come across a bargain but to me the high price I pay for something is usually justifiable. Of course there’s opposite as well - corporate greed. So you have to exercise caution and not just buy everything you see. This site helps with that. I wish other communities were as good in this regard but then I don’t care much for quality cutlery, curtains or bath towels. It’s wife’s department and to me ‘the cheapest’ would usually do (not to her though).

 

[speed bump]

It all depends on your audience. There are groups dedicated to the best deal, groups dedicated to the the shineiest object, the most expensive and whatever else you can think of.

Personally I am getting past caring about the best deal or the best thing. I just want something that I know will do the job well so sometimes I over spend to get that item and I don't care. The job being done is more important to the path to completion most days.

 

[C2tuck]

Depends on who you ask really...

A co-worker of mine is a crane mechanic. He has a kick *** snap on toolbox that’s loaded down with snap on tools. He’s also got his service truck that is loaded down with snap on as well. I’m sure he’s got over six figures in tools.

I’m a DIY’er and have mainly husky, Milwaukee and some old craftsman tools. I don’t want, nor would I pay for snap on...I simply don’t use them enough.

But my buddy that makes over $200k a year, that literally has multiple tools in his hands every day, it’s worth it to.


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[Citation]

Yes, quality and cost are correlated but only roughly. Sometimes more expensive is just because the vendor can convince you to spend more for the same thing. Certainly a given wrench doesn't lose quality because it's on sale for 50% off. Also, sometimes things cost more because the vendor has an inefficient process/older equipment.

On the other hand, sometimes it costs more due to a more expensive heat treatment or extra deburing step that reduces friction or adding seals to ensure bearings last longer. In those cases extra cost adds to quality.

There is also the question of "overkill" for a job. Sometimes the extra capability doesn't add value when doing a job. I think we can all agree the freebee HF multimeters are junk compared to a Fluke 87, more so if we consider it's bigger (more robust) brother, the Fluke 28-II EX. That's the version that has been rated for use in things like mines and explosive gas environments. Most of us get zero value out of a water tight meter that has potted fuses to ensure no sparks that could ignite coal dust. All that extra quality costs a lot. That's on top of the fact that both Fluke meters have very good accuracy that is probably overkill for things like making sure your car battery isn't flat. The same question of overkill applies when comparing say a cheap Walmart wrench to a Snap-on when assembling Ikea furniture. So depending on the task a higher priced tool may have no extra "quality" even though it costs more.

 

[nelstomlinson]

Cost puts a ceiling on quality; you can't get more than you pay for, but you can easily get less.

 

[egnorant]

One thing I have been teaching my kids (now the grands) is that buying stuff to get others approval is stupid. I was in a situation where a kidling wanted a specific pair of headphones that cost $250. Promoted by a guy named Dr. Dre or something. We looked and listened to some in a box store getting a baseline for quality and value. Then we headed to an audio store to look at some other brands and found 2 brands in the $60 to $70 range that were much better sounding, more comfortable, obviously better built and looked similar. We also found what appeared to be the identical headphones to the $250 ones that were just lacking the large B on the side and cheaper packaging.

Ended up buying the Sennheiser brand.

First day and some poser tried to embarrass and belittle the "not cool" headphones. He was ready with his response of "These sound better!" Just that phrase and a dismissive smile and it was over!

I had a buddy make a face when he borrowed a large wrench and noticed it simply said China on the side. I have the same wrench in Craftsman and Wright but the China wrench has been the go to for years. Part of me thinks it is because I use these in situations where hammering might ensue is part of the equation and I don't want to beat up my "good" wrenches.

Bruce

 

[elmwood]

Diminishing returns sets in around the Wright, S-K, Williams, Proto level.

Pretty much, this. Diminishing returns sets in when the price-to-performance ratio starts to rise at an exponential rise.

Just talking out of my *** here, but let's say the price-to-performance/utility ratio of an old $15.00 made-in-USA Craftsman raised panel ratchet is 1:1 - $1 for 1 unit of tool goodness. The price-to-performance ratio of a $40-$60 Wright, SK, etc might also be 1:1 -- you're paying a lot more for a ratchet, but the day-to-day experience of using it will be better than an old-school 36 tooth raised flat panel Craftsman. The tool truck brands might be 2:1 -- a $140 Snap-on ratchet might be a little bit better than a $60 SK pear head, but is is more than twice as good?

Price-to-performance may also be high at the low end of the scale, too. If you buy a no-name Chinese ratchet from the dollar store, it may be cheaper, but in the long run, you're paying more per unit of tool goodness. If you end up buying six $5 pot metal Happy Lucky Panda ratchets over your lifetime of tool use, instead of one $15.00 USA Craftsman RP ratchet, the price-performance ratio is 2:1 compared to the Craftsman. Probably much more considering the frustration and drudgery of actually using the old-school Chineseium, and that you end up buying something from Lowe's as a replacement.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

If I recall I paid less that $10 for my buck knifes. I carry at least one everyday, usually 2. I've misplaced them, lost them, found them. Dulled them, sharpened them. Bent them and straightened them.
I use them hard, including hitting with a hammer.
I don't recall ever breaking one.