Does cost REALLY dictate quality?

[Wamsutta]

No, that statement very well applies to tools, too.

OK good --- now give me a brand name of tools that you feel the quality doesn't match the price ---

 

[theoldwizard1]

I’m sorry, but my honest “OPINION” is that today’s society is way too hung up on image than bang for your buck.

Are Cadillac and Lincoln worth the big premium they charge over the comparable Chevy and Ford equivalents ? NO !

The list goes on and on ...

 

[theoldwizard1]

I watched a video where an expert woodworker took a cheap HF hand plane and with many hours of work, turned into a tool that he admitted was "usable" to himself.

So is a new Stanley hand plane that costs 4-6 times as much and still likely need "some work" before an craftsman accept it, good value or not ?

 

[Wamsutta]

Fair enough and since you profess to be in-the-know, perhaps you can help explain, to the neophytes.

I recently purchased a 13pc set of Carlysle 6pt wrenches - finely polished presumably quality steel, in a nice pouch - $100, which I thought was more than enough for imported wrenches, especially since I'm used to HF polished wrenches that work just fine, they just don't come in 6pt.

A similar 13 wrench set, can be purchased from SK, finely polished, likely very good steel, but about $160, which is fair enough, since they are American made.

That said, what justifies charging $500, for a similar 13 pc set from Snap On, which is 5x the price of the Carlyles? 5x better steel, 5x better chroming, even a 5x better pouch, does not really add up and the differences in labor will not be 5x, since they are essentially, mass-produced chunks of steel.

There will be one little feature about the Snap-on version that makes me feel like they're worth 5 times the price of the Carlyle; happens to me every time. I might not even know what's wrong with the Carlyle version until I have the Snap-on version in my hands, but there'll be something; there always is.

 

[Rogers954]

But that being said some of the toughest impact sockets were also the cheapest GP, reason being they didnt do Chrome only black so it kept their cost down.

Are you saying that grey pneumatic are the toughest impacts on the market? I’m asking because I’m curious


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[Rogers954]

Cost and quality are a linear function until marketing gets involved, then you start paying for brand image instead of product enhancement.

This point is exactly why i would never own a Harley, do i like some of there bikes? Sure i think some are cool, do i believe they are 10x better than a Japanese or other companies bikes? Sorry but no i don’t

Now I’m a little bias i cut me teeth on Japanese sport bikes for years and i think just about any of the top 4 are high quality machines that do not require a whole lot of wrenching to keep them going

Couple of examples about Harley and why i don’t buy in:

Had a friend come home from a long deployment he saved all his pay while there with the plan of returning home and buying a new cruiser, he went to Harley first told the salesman what he had in funds and the guy said no way i can get you on a new bike in the size you are interested in for that much, i believe he told my buddy “hell for that amount you could barely afford the smallest bike we have in the used department” my friend didn’t want to finance he wanted to pay Cash so he asked the salesman to give him one reason why he shouldn’t take his hard earned money down to one of the 4 Japanese dealerships where he could buy a brand new bike in the size he wanted, only thing the salesman could come up with was this “when you buy a Harley you are buying into a brotherhood” my friends said that’s all you have to convince me? He walked said his money demanded more than a “club membership” and i agree.

2 i was talking with a guy about my Honda 1000 and he said he was a big cruiser guy i told him i had just paid my bike off and wanted to get a cruiser so i could have both, said i really liked the victory bikes and had researched the brand and the customer raising on almost all the motorcycles was very high people praised the reliability of the bikes. The guy says to me “good choice i had a victory and it was the best bike I’ve ever owned” i asked him what he was riding now and he said a Harley and i asked why not a victory, his response....all i guys i ride with ride Harley’s.

I watched a video on YouTube that was comparing Harley to victory’s they took a stator off of both bikes the victory was a very uncommon replacement part because the way the engineers installed the part they put it in a place with less heat thus the part lasted way longer, the Harley engineers put the part in the hottest location they could making it a high failure part and they knew it but simply refused to change the design and why should they? Even if customers knew this they would still pay 5-10x more for there stuff because it’s the “cool club”

Sometimes it doesn’t matter if everyone knows that what they are buying isn’t worth the cost different between there product and company x’s product if you have the popular vote you can get away with charging what you want and that’s ok as said it’s a free market and people can choose where to put there money.

One thing i noticed was the older i got from being a kid into my 30’s the less and less i care about what people think about what i spend my money on, I’m not here to win a popularity contest i want quality for my money if you can prove your product is 10X better than one i am lookin at then i will consider saving up to afford the difference but you are not going to sell me on the 10x “cooler aspect”



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[Danglerb]

The short answer is that its not easy being a consumer these days. Price is in plain view, quality and utility take some to a lot of digging. Given a choice I wish all my tool buying had as much pleasure as picking up an ancient Utica set of pliers in great shape for a buck at the swap meet.

 

[Nineeightyone]

"The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money.

Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles.

But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that’d still be keeping his feet dry in ten years’ time, while the poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet.

I think this more or less sums up what we're trying to get at here. A poor quality tool may cost you ten times its value in what steps it causes you to need to take in order to perform a repair, where a higher quality tool will do the job correctly, time and time again.

As an anecdotal example, I buy relatively inexpensive tools for many jobs, because those tools hold up just fine for me. But I'm gearing up to do brake lines on my daily driver, and rather than buy the inexpensive flare nut wrenches that I hear spread and round, I'm going to spend the extra coin to get the Blackhawk/Proto ones (only because Snap-On are very much out of my price range, unless I buy a single wrench).

 

[sberry]

Skip the wrenches and get 7 and 10R vise grips. Ha

 

[danb35]

Having owned a tool truck I was ask that a lot.

There's so much wrong here, I don't even know where to start. So I'll just point out that, yes, the shiny "good" tools are chromed--not just the cheap tools. I have a set of Snap-On end wrenches--they're chromed. I have a Snap-on ratchet and socket set--those pieces are chromed too. I'm certainly willing to believe that the chroming process is different than is used for cheap tools, resulting in a better/longer-lasting finish, but to state that they're "polished not chromed" is simply nonsensical.

 

[IndyGarage]

Are Cadillac and Lincoln worth the big premium they charge over the comparable Chevy and Ford equivalents ? NO !

The list goes on and on ...

Not to you, but obviously to some people they are.

Do both types of vehicles transport the owner to and from work? Yes they do. If all you want is transportation, then any will work and the Chevy/Ford would be a better value.

Do you want additional comfort features, style and "jones factor" when you go to/from work? - well then the Cadillac/Lincoln beats Chevy/Ford every time.

However if you want the absolute best value to get you reliably to/from work, you wouldn't look at Chevy or Ford. You would look at a used Toyota.

Which of the bunch is the best quality - only you get to decide.

If you work with tools every day, the one that costs more and breaks less is always a better value. Your downtime is worth more than the tool is. That's why mechanics buy Snap-on or Matco. It's a brand with a reputation of being the best or nearly the best in every category. Can you find something else that works as well - yeah probably, but if you buy a known quality brand, you generally don't have to worry about it.

Is a Rolex Watch better than a Casio watch? Well, as far as basic timekeeping is concerned it's hard to beat Casio. The $17 one on my wrist is more accurate than anything Rolex makes, it is easier to read, and it costs less than getting a band pin replaced on a Rolex. Then why would anyone buy a Rolex? Ever?

Well, if you are walking into a business meeting selling something to a CEO, you wouldn't wear a Casio. The Rolex is a universal symbol of success in business - as are may other premium brands. Does it guarantee competency? Nope. But it does guarantee you've had some success somewhere in the past. The same thing goes for $5,000 purses and Rolls Royce cars. If you possess one of those things, it's almost assured you are much more competent than average - at something at least. Are those things higher quality than their cheaper counterpart? It depends on the buyer's perspective. If the Rolex is part of an outfit that you use to close a $50 million deal, is it worth it? You decide.

 

[sberry]

If you work with tools every day, the one that costs more and breaks less is always a better value. Your downtime is worth more than the tool is. That's why mechanics buy Snap-on or Matco.

Only true if it actually does break less.

 

[6PTsocket]

I think there is no clear cut answer if the question is applied across the whole spectrum of goods. In some cases the expensive item is largely snob factor and in others the price is justified for better quality,and in some cases it is a little of both. Some actually believe that simply applying a well respected label assures top quality. Traditional hand craftsmanship comes at a high price and there is definitely pride of ownership but bang for the buck is another story. It is hard to generalize with so many products and variables. In some cases the same product is sold at widely differing prices so it is worth the lowest price.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[lakelandcat]

There's so much wrong here, I don't even know where to start. So I'll just point out that, yes, the shiny "good" tools are chromed--not just the cheap tools. I have a set of Snap-On end wrenches--they're chromed. I have a Snap-on ratchet and socket set--those pieces are chromed too. I'm certainly willing to believe that the chroming process is different than is used for cheap tools, resulting in a better/longer-lasting finish, but to state that they're "polished not chromed" is simply nonsensical.

I had a Matco franchise, our wrenches were polished, forged wrenches, its called a jewelers finish, I agree ratchets are chrome, but chrome on a cast wrench will always crack if enough torque is applied, chrome does not bend. If they chromed your snap on they are prob a forged wrench, its just cheaper to give it a smoother finish and make it easier to clean. To state that your snap on wrenches are the same as your blue point would be a stupid statement, so you tell me what the difference is.

 

[lakelandcat]

Are you saying that grey pneumatic are the toughest impacts on the market? I’m asking because I’m curious


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Not I can't say that, because I haven't used every different impact. Bang for the buck they work real well, I had less returns from the GP especially the smaller sizes, the only complaint I had was they were thicker than other truck brand. They kept the cost down because that was all they did was impact. (they may have changed, its been about 14 years).

 

[lakelandcat]

Lakelandcat,
I'm not disputing much of what you said but forgings often have a rough surface finish. Look at a RP Cman wrench or ratchet. Those are definitely forged yet have surface finish not unlike cast. I think I understand what you are saying about polishing but again I'm not sure I agree with the detail. I've got a set of polished Kobalt box end wrenches. As compared to my 20 year old Cman RP combo wrenches the Kobalts seem like the obvious winner. They feel nicer in the hand, they look nicer, the extra length makes them easier when the going is hard and the open end is just a bit lower in profile. But, having used both the Cman wrenches are actually better quality in my book. The Kobalt's mfr seems to have achieved that nice finish by electropolishing the **** out of those wrenches. The net result is the edges of the jaws where the blank was broached are rounded from the factory. The Cman wrenches have less finish work and thus are more square and have better defined jaws. One of the differences I see with Snapon vs others is SO seems to have started from a better blank that had a closer to net finish prior to broaching. Once the jaws were formed the tool needed little cleanup prior to polish and finishing. That level of finish costs more. There seem to be two ways to deal with that cost. One was the direction Sears picked, go with a rougher final finish. The other was what Kobalt picked, accept the rounded edges etc that come when you try to use a fast/cheap polishing process. Incidentally I first noticed this sort of "fast polish" when looking at the differences between the band links in a Rolex vs low cost Rolex looking watch.

Put a test to your wrenches, take a hardened bolt and try to twist the head off. You prob. won't but see now much torque you have to put on each, if it slips any or rounds the corners its a cast wrench, a hardened forge tempered wrench will stand up, cast won't. Your Kobalt are a step up from Craftsman, the company claimed their QC was to be 15% better quality, I still think they are a cast tool. Watch the show Forged in fire and thats a good example of the difference. If I understand correctly your wrenches have a rounded corner. That was designed into the wrench to take the stress from the point of the bolt and put the torque on the flat edge.

 

[lakelandcat]

Guys Im not trying to promote one tool over another, just the process they are made and material they are made out of. I have 6 tool boxes myself and they are all full of all kinds of tools. My favorite screwdriver is a Craftsman I have had for 42 years. The handle is loose and its have burnt up. but its always my go to. I have China made and broken snap on. I have a 5# coffee can full of busted sockets, boxes of broken impact wrenches IR-CH, ratchets that look like they came from Walmart, now I'm getting old and don't do a lot of heavy mech. work but I have been using tools all my life. I have seen Taiwan tools go from **** to ok. Bought Matco wrench set the first year they were in business, paid $90 for a set of 10, pawned them for $10 so I could buy gas. Buy what you want and believe what you will. My point is the only bad tool is the one you need and don't have. Mike

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

OK good --- now give me a brand name of tools that you feel the quality doesn't match the price ---

here are a few dozen examples

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=249851

 

[sberry]

I think it's easy to be impressed by the best but my has some rear view to it now and so much of the cheap stuff has worked so much better than we ever thought it would. We bought things we expected to use little, still working 20 years later and purchased with 2 in mind.
Works 10 times better than we thought it would. That's why the true "value" is on the bottom end anymore. Decent stuff available today for a fraction of the price of the Sears of old.

 

[Doc995]

This entire thread somewhat reminds me of a woman who works in my office. Hands down-she is the most pretentious people I've ever met. She puts people down from everything-down to the detergent that you may use (I use Tide, and was called "ghetto" by her, lol) to the brand of toilet paper that you buy (don't even want to go there).
Anyway, she used to drive a very nice Toyota Camry to work every day. From day 1 she NEVER had an issue with that car, ever. It was a very "pedestrian" car. Too "pedestrian" for her. She goes out and gets an Audi Q5 to impress other people on the road (her words). She's had that car in the shop for a minimum of 1 week out of every month since she's bought it and it's still not right. Guess she should never have gotten rid of the Toyota...

 

[sberry]

It may be made in China but it is as good as Sears has been for the last 40 years. You could change the made in label and would never know th difference by using it. I bought the same tools in the 80's for 400 is 200 today. Maybe less and maybe better especially failed sockets.
Ain't no wonder Sears went bust, in sets any cheaper and they pay you to carry it to the car.

 

[James-W]

This may not apply today, I have no idea, but I recall when wearing Calvin Klein jeans was the ONLY "cool" jeans for women to wear. I really don't think Calvin Klein jeans were any better quality than the much less expensive jeans, but the name on the jeans was what was important. You couldn't be cool unless you were wearing them so young women bought them. I tend to think that is pretty much true for other things as well.

 

[sberry]

Saw beautiful Stanley pro wrench set at Wally, 26$, 1/2 socket set, flawless same price. Hillbilly and redneck tested with a HF breaker bar.
As good or better than off brand in a parts store 40 years ago and would have cost 50$.
Can buy it 24/7 off the shelf for good lunch money. Own it without debt or insurance.

 

[zendriver]

The real irony, is Harbor Freight tools.

They used to be fairly low quality, at very low prices.

Since then, their quality has improved greatly, but the prices for most of their items, has only risen moderately.

Also - added bonus, their good quality - good pricing, has helped drive down the prices, from their real "brand name" competitors.

 

[Negen]

The real irony, is Harbor Freight tools.

They used to be fairly low quality, at very low prices.

Since then, their quality has improved greatly, but the prices for most of their items, has only risen moderately.

Also - added bonus, their good quality - good pricing, has helped drive down the prices, from their real "brand name" competitors.

I guess proto didn't get the memo that prices should be going down.

Sent from my G8141 using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[Citation]

Put a test to your wrenches, take a hardened bolt and try to twist the head off. You prob. won't but see now much torque you have to put on each, if it slips any or rounds the corners its a cast wrench, a hardened forge tempered wrench will stand up, cast won't. Your Kobalt are a step up from Craftsman, the company claimed their QC was to be 15% better quality, I still think they are a cast tool. Watch the show Forged in fire and thats a good example of the difference. If I understand correctly your wrenches have a rounded corner. That was designed into the wrench to take the stress from the point of the bolt and put the torque on the flat edge.

What you are proposing is to see how hard the metal is. I've seen the German wrench review that floated around here. No doubt that some, Snap-On included, are stronger than others. But that doesn't mean the Cman isn't forged. Unless you are saying Sears was lying when they say "Forged in USA" on the side of the wrench, I would say they are forged, not cast. Other than the absolute cheapest garbage I can't think of any cast wrenches I've run across.

My Kobalt wrenches are not a step up in quality from my Cman wrenches. Given that you haven't seen either I'm not sure on what grounds you are making your claim. The rounding I'm talking about is not the large round between the two flats (the round opposite 'SW' in the illustration below). No, it's the top and bottom edges. These are the ones that you would like to be crisp and well formed.

The edge I'm thinking of would be the top and bottom edges of the 'SW' opening. It's the one between the surfaces indicated by 'T' and 'SW'. It effectively reduces the working contact surface of the wrench on the nut without actually reducing 'T'. Speaking of 'T', in general I would want no tapering of 'T' from the root to the tips of the jaws. My Cman wrenches have little taper but the Kobalts have quite a bit. Again, I suspect in an effort to create a nice polished finish they over buffed and over electropolished which rolled off edges etc.

So while the Kobalts look and feel nicer, in use they don't work better due to compromises made to give a low cost wrench a nicer finish.

 

[Ben86]

Do I want to spend $35 on a computer power supply, but wonder why my computer randomly crashes for the next few years and spend hours trying to figure it out or spend $150 on a quality power supply and use it for the next decade.

Do I want to spend $400 on some work boots that cost $150 to resole once every 2-3 years and fit like a glove or purchase $60 work boots that hurt my feet and have to replace them every 3-6 months.

Do I want to spend $30 on a belt that looks like **** after 3 months and falls apart after a year or spend $80 on a high quality leather belt that will outlive me?

On the other hand.

Do I want to spend $100 on an anti-stick pan that will need to get replaced after 2 years, a $30 anti-stick pan that will need to get replaced after 6 months or a $20 Lodge cast iron once and take the time to season it.

Do I want to spend $250 on a Columbia thin warm winter jacket that looks a little stylish that will lose its water resistance after 1-2 years, the stitching will start to go, the zipper will jam, and the Velcro will stop sticking. Or a $150 Carhartt that is slightly more bulky and a bit plain looking, but wear out before it breaks. And that takes a long time.

 

[La Petite Tools]

Do I want to spend $250 on a Columbia thin warm winter jacket that looks a little stylish that will lose its water resistance after 1-2 years, the stitching will start to go, the zipper will jam, and the Velcro will stop sticking. Or a $150 Carhartt that is slightly more bulky and a bit plain looking, but wear out before it breaks. And that takes a long time.

And if it breaks Carhartt will send you the parts to fix it.

 

[AreYaSerious]

Do I want to spend $250 on a Columbia thin warm winter jacket that looks a little stylish that will lose its water resistance after 1-2 years, the stitching will start to go, the zipper will jam, and the Velcro will stop sticking. Or a $150 Carhartt that is slightly more bulky and a bit plain looking, but wear out before it breaks. And that takes a long time.

Or better yet get a Schmidt or Dri duck that is just as warm and last just as long as Carhartt. Still between the Columbia or Carhartt, I'd buy Carhartt all day long, I just wanted to share more options.

Here's one. Do I wanna buy Coors with vertical mountains or Keystone with sideway mountains. Owned by the same company, taste close to the same, both get you drunk. I'll save money and go with keystone.

Evan Williams or Jack Daniels, close in taste (To me anyway) Evan Williams is half the price.

Okay now I'm sounding like an alcoholic... I'm going to stop.

 

[ZRX61]

Takes a while for some people to realize that the only reason Snap On is priced way high is because when you bought the original tool, you also paid for 3 *free* replacements at the same time...

 

[M6erfan]

Takes a while for some people to realize that the only reason Snap On is priced way high is because when you bought the original tool, you also paid for 3 *free* replacements at the same time...

Well yeah. There is a "value add" component to S-o pricing with the warranty and tool truck service (for the shops)

 

[lakelandcat]

What you are proposing is to see how hard the metal is. I've seen the German wrench review that floated around here. No doubt that some, Snap-On included, are stronger than others. But that doesn't mean the Cman isn't forged. Unless you are saying Sears was lying when they say "Forged in USA" on the side of the wrench, I would say they are forged, not cast. Other than the absolute cheapest garbage I can't think of any cast wrenches I've run across.

My Kobalt wrenches are not a step up in quality from my Cman wrenches. Given that you haven't seen either I'm not sure on what grounds you are making your claim. The rounding I'm talking about is not the large round between the two flats (the round opposite 'SW' in the illustration below). No, it's the top and bottom edges. These are the ones that you would like to be crisp and well formed.

The edge I'm thinking of would be the top and bottom edges of the 'SW' opening. It's the one between the surfaces indicated by 'T' and 'SW'. It effectively reduces the working contact surface of the wrench on the nut without actually reducing 'T'. Speaking of 'T', in general I would want no tapering of 'T' from the root to the tips of the jaws. My Cman wrenches have little taper but the Kobalts have quite a bit. Again, I suspect in an effort to create a nice polished finish they over buffed and over electropolished which rolled off edges etc.

So while the Kobalts look and feel nicer, in use they don't work better due to compromises made to give a low cost wrench a nicer finish.

Craftsman had a Pro line of wrenches that were forged, but the General Public line was cast. I really couldn't tell you if they still make them. I quit buying Craftsman when they started giving me a hard time with the lifetime warranty. They had a toolbox that was decent, ball bearing slides, well buil I have a top/bottom. Bought a Craftsman tape measure the other day, might as well throw in in the garbage, won't stand out 4'. Lowes now carries Cman and its going to interesting to see how it effects their Kobalt line(if they will even carry Kobalt anymore) old Craftsman was a better made tool than today. I have old ratchets that I have used and abused, guts are still good but bent the handle with a cheater bar. That wouldn't happen today, its cheaper to fix them than replace. By the way the matco guts fit the craftsman ratchets

 

[James-W]

Do I want to spend $35 on a computer power supply, but wonder why my computer randomly crashes for the next few years and spend hours trying to figure it out or spend $150 on a quality power supply and use it for the next decade.

Do I want to spend $400 on some work boots that cost $150 to resole once every 2-3 years and fit like a glove or purchase $60 work boots that hurt my feet and have to replace them every 3-6 months.

Do I want to spend $30 on a belt that looks like **** after 3 months and falls apart after a year or spend $80 on a high quality leather belt that will outlive me?

On the other hand.

Do I want to spend $100 on an anti-stick pan that will need to get replaced after 2 years, a $30 anti-stick pan that will need to get replaced after 6 months or a $20 Lodge cast iron once and take the time to season it.

Do I want to spend $250 on a Columbia thin warm winter jacket that looks a little stylish that will lose its water resistance after 1-2 years, the stitching will start to go, the zipper will jam, and the Velcro will stop sticking. Or a $150 Carhartt that is slightly more bulky and a bit plain looking, but wear out before it breaks. And that takes a long time.

So when do we get the answers to your questions?

 

[lakelandcat]

Takes a while for some people to realize that the only reason Snap On is priced way high is because when you bought the original tool, you also paid for 3 *free* replacements at the same time...

Bingo I had a friend that has had a truck for over 15 yrs. he told me he had over $250K in skips. Some times that plays in.

 

[Citation]

Craftsman had a Pro line of wrenches that were forged, but the General Public line was cast. I really couldn't tell you if they still make them. I quit buying Craftsman when they started giving me a hard time with the lifetime warranty. They had a toolbox that was decent, ball bearing slides, well buil I have a top/bottom. Bought a Craftsman tape measure the other day, might as well throw in in the garbage, won't stand out 4'. Lowes now carries Cman and its going to interesting to see how it effects their Kobalt line(if they will even carry Kobalt anymore) old Craftsman was a better made tool than today. I have old ratchets that I have used and abused, guts are still good but bent the handle with a cheater bar. That wouldn't happen today, its cheaper to fix them than replace. By the way the matco guts fit the craftsman ratchets

So they misspelled "cast" on the side of the wrenches. They spelled it "forged".

 

[driftpin]

One thing I have been teaching my kids (now the grands) is that buying stuff to get others approval is stupid. I was in a situation where a kidling wanted a specific pair of headphones that cost $250. Promoted by a guy named Dr. Dre or something. We looked and listened to some in a box store getting a baseline for quality and value. Then we headed to an audio store to look at some other brands and found 2 brands in the $60 to $70 range that were much better sounding, more comfortable, obviously better built and looked similar. We also found what appeared to be the identical headphones to the $250 ones that were just lacking the large B on the side and cheaper packaging.

Ended up buying the Sennheiser brand.

First day and some poser tried to embarrass and belittle the "not cool" headphones. He was ready with his response of "These sound better!" Just that phrase and a dismissive smile and it was over!

I had a buddy make a face when he borrowed a large wrench and noticed it simply said China on the side. I have the same wrench in Craftsman and Wright but the China wrench has been the go to for years. Part of me thinks it is because I use these in situations where hammering might ensue is part of the equation and I don't want to beat up my "good" wrenches.

Bruce

Hah, a good comparison about the headphones. Your method is what a rational prospective purchaser would use to arrive at a purchase decision. However, the marketplace is driven by snob-appeal, hinted-at in numerous posts. The start-up Payless Shoes store, re-branded as something vaguely-Italian is a good example. The snobs thought the materials were "high-quality, I can tell!" and said the construction was too, they must have-been shocked when the reality was revealed. At that point, having been shown-up, I bet none of them considered buying Payless, because if any of their Prada-wearing friends were to see them in Payless, the sniping comments whispered behind their backs would begin. However, Sam Walton drove an old pick-up, and was secure in his behavior because he didn't care what "the Joneses" thought of his transportation.

Back in the 1960's/early 1970's, the best value on the market for headphones was the Koss Pro 4-A headset, which encapsulated the ears. They were heavy, if it was hot, they would become uncomfortable, but they did deliver great sound, and they were reasonably priced. Sennheiser came to-market with a radically-different approach to headphones. They were worn on-top of the ear. They were made of plastic. They were very lightweight, compared to the Koss Pro 4-A's. However, they were pretty-close to the Koss headphones in price. I used friends' Koss headphones, and I liked them for their sound. But when I finally bought a pair for myself, I chose the Sennheisers. They took a bit-more time to position correctly for use, so the sound would enter the auditory canal more-directly, and they rode on the pinna (the outer ear) so you had a bit of ambient surrounding noise that might intrude, if the noise was loud-enough. But they were sonically to my ears the equal of the traditional Koss design. I still have them, and they still work fine, though I rarely use them.

My Wright 3/8" socket set and wrenches I asked my parents for, when I turned age 16, are still serving me well, over 50 years later. I've broken a couple sockets, and some of them have peeling chrome after a half-century of continuous use, but they still work. The ratchet is a 'tootsie-roll' model, and every time I pick it up, I think of my parents, both long-time deceased.

I've bought HFT wrenches, but most of my hand tools acquired over the last 50+ years are venerable brands, made in USA. I have a few Snap-On tools but with a few (very) rare exceptions, those S-O tools have been purchased used.

The marketplace is about "willingness to pay." Some people want to start with the best, or they work their way into being able to afford them. They pay a premium. Whether or not their tools actually last-longer, with fewer issues in the workplace (rounded fasteners, peeling finishes, broken tools) is something they will individually-discover.

There is a considerable market for the lower-priced tools, the proliferation of HFT stores is proof of that. But there are many threads on-here now about HFT offering higher-quality tools, but with only moderate price increases. For many customers, who aren't using their tools for their livelihoods, HFT is "good-enough." Good-enough to get the job done, to purchase, and if they rarely use that tool again, it did what they needed, at a price they could afford.

I recently treated myself to a new set of Wright 1/4" and 3/8" 6-point sockets and ratchets during their 40% off sale I saw here on GJ. I also bought a set of metric and SAE flare-nut wrenches. I expect to hand these tools to a grandson one day, whoever shows the most-interest in doing things for themselves. The cost of ownership was significant, as I'm not a professional mechanic, and the cost of going Snap-On was above my "willingness to pay." However, I expect these Wright tools to last my lifetime, and to serve the next generation to receive them as-well.

 

[davethorik]

So they misspelled "cast" on the side of the wrenches. They spelled it "forged".

I wondered if anyone else caught that. No wonder the RP wrenches sucked...they were made of cast iron!

 

[MuhThugga]

I've been burned by cheap things and I've been burned by expensive things. It's tough finding that balance of value.

 

[MJO]

I’m not trying to start an argument amongst us all....

Sure you are. Fact is in most cases you get what you pay for when buying quality products from the USA, Germany, the UK, etc. With the Asian stuff (excluding Japan) it's a **** shoot.

 

[Rabid Badger]

So they misspelled "cast" on the side of the wrenches. They spelled it "forged".

Don't forget this gem:

Also forged wrenchs are polished not chromed, thats a extra step, and you never have to worry about running a piece of Chrome under your fingernail.

Riiiiiight.