Does cost REALLY dictate quality?

[finn]

The real irony, is Harbor Freight tools.

They used to be fairly low quality, at very low prices.

Since then, their quality has improved greatly, but the prices for most of their items, has only risen moderately.

Also - added bonus, their good quality - good pricing, has helped drive down the prices, from their real "brand name" competitors.

I have never bought anything from Harbor Freight that could remotely be described as good quality.

Serviceable quality, occasionally, but never good quality.

The last time I was in a HF store (on vacation last summer near Norfolk), I stopped in a HF store specifically to look at their highly acclaimed wrench sets. The broaching on the open end was just plain horrible. It was so bad that I distinctly remember pointing it out to my wife.

For all the ragging here about Craftsman quality, I have never seen anything approaching the garbage I saw, once again, at HF.

I left with my coupon in my wallet.

 

[dogdog]

Seems like a flawed study.

People with money, have a choice, to buy cheap, or expensive stuff.

Poor people really don't.

That is true, but rich people usually tends to be cheap and as well...... a lot of the mentality is that they spend more to get a lot more... you have to meet a few of them and observe them a little to understand that statement... but that opens them to a flaw that preconceive the price dictates quality, which is really not as in the subject of this post.....

There are also those so call "rich" people buy name brand regardless of quality , just because they can show off on it...

 

[reader2580]

There are also those so call "rich" people buy name brand regardless of quality , just because they can show off on it...

I've read about well off people who buy an expensive Prevost bus conversion motorhome who have a good sized Snap-On tool box in the luggage bay with $10,000 worth of Snap-On tools in the box.

The thing is, in most cases, the owner wouldn't know which end of the wrench to use. They just bought the tools to show off. If anything needs repair it is done under warranty or they hire the work done.

 

[dogdog]

I've read about well off people who buy an expensive Prevost bus conversion motorhome who have a good sized Snap-On tool box in the luggage bay with $10,000 worth of Snap-On tools in the box.

The thing is, in most cases, the owner wouldn't know which end of the wrench to use. They just bought the tools to show off. If anything needs repair it is done under warranty or they hire the work done.

LOL yes, and then you'll see those not so rich people who tries to hang with the "rich" people and buy name brand just to keep up, Keeping up with the Joneses.. or what ever they called it now a days... but that is not really on topic, sort of... still relevant though, the conception of brand name cost and quality... If only they tell me that price of that tool more expensive does the job better, I would flock to it in no time when my bank account has more than one zeros...but then again I can have 0000000 and still be poor...

 

[Fishy66]

I think a major thing that is always missing from these conversations is how branding works. We all know that all tool brands have an ever changing scope of quality and manufacture. Investors and parent companies want every ounce of profit they can get out of a brand's reputation before they start seeing negative results.

In order to get the best tools for the money, you have to be brand and YOM fluid. But that is the fun of it IMO.

Simply spending more on whatever is new does not always work.

 

[Shiftless]

I've read about well off people who buy an expensive Prevost bus conversion motorhome who have a good sized Snap-On tool box in the luggage bay with $10,000 worth of Snap-On tools in the box.

The thing is, in most cases, the owner wouldn't know which end of the wrench to use. They just bought the tools to show off. If anything needs repair it is done under warranty or they hire the work done.

That’s why we go to estate sales and try to be near the front of the line before they open the door.

 

[Fishy66]

I've read about well off people who buy an expensive Prevost bus conversion motorhome who have a good sized Snap-On tool box in the luggage bay with $10,000 worth of Snap-On tools in the box.

The thing is, in most cases, the owner wouldn't know which end of the wrench to use. They just bought the tools to show off. If anything needs repair it is done under warranty or they hire the work done.

The few "rich" people I know personally are very goal-oriented and focused on time-management. Researching tools or spending time fixing toys instead of enjoying them with what little "free" time they have is for schlubs like us with more time and less money.

 

[IndyGarage]

I've read about well off people who buy an expensive Prevost bus conversion motorhome who have a good sized Snap-On tool box in the luggage bay with $10,000 worth of Snap-On tools in the box.

The thing is, in most cases, the owner wouldn't know which end of the wrench to use. They just bought the tools to show off. If anything needs repair it is done under warranty or they hire the work done.

I know a few rich people who would give some mechanics a run for their money with tools. Rich people that earned their own money (instead of the old fashioned way - inheritence) are incredibly focused, hard working and don't quit when things get hard. They will figure out how to fix things when nobody else can. Yeah they might take it to the dealer for convenience, but if they need to, they will be right in there doing what it takes.

 

[larry_g]

The above is a video of Jerry Clower who explains this subject very well. Start listening at the 8:02 minute mark.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[ngk22r]

In today’s world, people are CONSUMED with how much they spend on something. They think if they have a more expensive car, motorcycle, tool, clothes, etc etc etc, that they have something better than the next person that paid for a lesser brand. But, is this really true????
I don’t believe it is...

What started this post was I was just on one of my hunting forums that I frequent and seen a feller make a post searching for an expensive brand of knife. Well... this knife he was searching for happens to be about a $250 knife made by a brand if knifes I carry every day. I have carried the same $60 knife for about 10 years now and abuse it daily and it still functions flawlessly. I guarantee nobody uses their EDC knife any harder than I do unless theyÂ’re pounding it with a sledgehammer. Soooo, it got me to thinking why in the heÂ’ll would anyone soend $250 on a knife when there are knives that can and will so the same thing and hold up just as well, for a fraction of the cost?

This relates to tools, too, because I know from experience that you can buy a lesser known tool brand that holds up just as well and pay a hell of a lot less for the same tool.

I’m sorry, but my honest “OPINION” is that today’s society is way too hung up on image than bang for your buck. ItÂ’s all about who can spend the most $$$ for a product who either lives on past reputation or the biggest marketing budget. Truthfully, I think todayÂ’s society is all about who spends the most money.

I’m not trying to start an argument amongst us all, just attempting to open your mind to the possibility that in today’s world that yesterday’s reputation, and today’s marketing budgets shouldn’t really have a heavy weight on the purchasing decisions you make today. Research for yourself, weigh the data, and make a logical decision without the products NAME in consideration. A name is useless other than for show.

It’s their money, why is it such a big deal for you what theybspend it on good or bad?

Are you happy with the tools you bought and their coat? Then that is all that matters then.

 

[mudflap]

This point is exactly why i would never own a Harley, do i like some of there bikes? Sure i think some are cool, do i believe they are 10x better than a Japanese or other companies bikes? Sorry but no i don’t

Now I’m a little bias i cut me teeth on Japanese sport bikes for years and i think just about any of the top 4 are high quality machines that do not require a whole lot of wrenching to keep them going

Couple of examples about Harley and why i don’t buy in:

Had a friend come home from a long deployment he saved all his pay while there with the plan of returning home and buying a new cruiser, he went to Harley first told the salesman what he had in funds and the guy said no way i can get you on a new bike in the size you are interested in for that much, i believe he told my buddy “hell for that amount you could barely afford the smallest bike we have in the used department” my friend didn’t want to finance he wanted to pay Cash so he asked the salesman to give him one reason why he shouldn’t take his hard earned money down to one of the 4 Japanese dealerships where he could buy a brand new bike in the size he wanted, only thing the salesman could come up with was this “when you buy a Harley you are buying into a brotherhood” my friends said that’s all you have to convince me? He walked said his money demanded more than a “club membership” and i agree.

2 i was talking with a guy about my Honda 1000 and he said he was a big cruiser guy i told him i had just paid my bike off and wanted to get a cruiser so i could have both, said i really liked the victory bikes and had researched the brand and the customer raising on almost all the motorcycles was very high people praised the reliability of the bikes. The guy says to me “good choice i had a victory and it was the best bike I’ve ever owned” i asked him what he was riding now and he said a Harley and i asked why not a victory, his response....all i guys i ride with ride Harley’s.

I watched a video on YouTube that was comparing Harley to victory’s they took a stator off of both bikes the victory was a very uncommon replacement part because the way the engineers installed the part they put it in a place with less heat thus the part lasted way longer, the Harley engineers put the part in the hottest location they could making it a high failure part and they knew it but simply refused to change the design and why should they? Even if customers knew this they would still pay 5-10x more for there stuff because it’s the “cool club”

Sometimes it doesn’t matter if everyone knows that what they are buying isn’t worth the cost different between there product and company x’s product if you have the popular vote you can get away with charging what you want and that’s ok as said it’s a free market and people can choose where to put there money.

One thing i noticed was the older i got from being a kid into my 30’s the less and less i care about what people think about what i spend my money on, I’m not here to win a popularity contest i want quality for my money if you can prove your product is 10X better than one i am lookin at then i will consider saving up to afford the difference but you are not going to sell me on the 10x “cooler aspect”



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Alot of what you say is true.. both about Harleys, and with whats available in tools these days, SO , aside from a few of their offerings have been relegated to "Vanity" tools . A new rice grinder does cost less, is more reliable for longer, costs less to maintain, gets better mileage, costs less to insure. On paper..i can think of no reason to buy the Harley, except maybe resale. You cant give away a 10 yr old jap bike, a 10 yr old Harley is still worth something. But that hardly makes up for all it's disadvantages. That said..i have been riding Harleys for over 30 years..and not 1 time have i thought to myself " i sure do wish i was on a jap bike right now"... Maybe you wouldnt know..but something about coming out of a small town on a country road in a pack of Harleys when you all roll into the throttle..just thinking about it gives me goose bumps. Or the ragged idle, or the pipes singin to you when your by yourself on an open stretch of highway. If my only option was a jap bike..i would just stop riding..but thats just me..and people like me ..We gladly overlook the Harleys higher price and shortcomings for that fix... Not sure about the "Brotherhood" thing..not all of us are 1%ers.. maybe somebody has been watching too much Sons of Anarchy..? But the sense of belonging to a group of people you can relate to, and that appreciate the same things does feel nice.. And Victory wasnt around long long enough to know if they were reliable or not.

 

[James-W]

I have never bought anything from Harbor Freight that could remotely be described as good quality.

Serviceable quality, occasionally, but never good quality.

The last time I was in a HF store (on vacation last summer near Norfolk), I stopped in a HF store specifically to look at their highly acclaimed wrench sets. The broaching on the open end was just plain horrible. It was so bad that I distinctly remember pointing it out to my wife.

For all the ragging here about Craftsman quality, I have never seen anything approaching the garbage I saw, once again, at HF.

I left with my coupon in my wallet.

I have purchased several things from Harbor Freight that were good quality. For example, the Nitrile Gloves they sell work VERY well for me in the garage. I use them when I have to do some painting, or some staining, or putting a polyurethane finish on a project. I have had a set of impact sockets for several years and never had an issue with them. Granted, I don't use them all that often theses days, but when I do use them they work just fine. I have several clamps from Harbor Freight and they work great, no problems with them all. The 3 ton floor jack I bought from them is several years old, no issues what-so-ever. I also have a low profile floor jack from Harbor Freight, no issues with that one either. I have other stuff as well and I don't have a problem with them. So please don't try to tell us that EVERYTHING Harbor Freight sells is junk. Some things they sell are not real well made, I agree with that. But a lot things they sell are decent quality and for those of us who don't use them all day every day they are a very good addition to our tool collection.

On the other hand, a lot of their small electric hand tools are not very good and they tend to fail fairly quickly, so I avoid buying them. You need to be careful what you buy there, but

 

[kctyphoon]

I have never bought anything from Harbor Freight that could remotely be described as good quality.

Serviceable quality, occasionally, but never good quality.

The last time I was in a HF store (on vacation last summer near Norfolk), I stopped in a HF store specifically to look at their highly acclaimed wrench sets. The broaching on the open end was just plain horrible. It was so bad that I distinctly remember pointing it out to my wife.

For all the ragging here about Craftsman quality, I have never seen anything approaching the garbage I saw, once again, at HF.

I left with my coupon in my wallet.

What highly acclaimed wrench set would that be?? I fail to see how someone can say hf pro sockets aren’t “good quality”. You pay pennies on the dollar compared to the most expensive brands available and they will disassemble an entire car just the same.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

What highly acclaimed wrench set would that be?? I fail to see how someone can say hf pro sockets aren’t “good quality”. You pay pennies on the dollar compared to the most expensive brands available and they will disassemble an entire car just the same.

no no;; Harbor Freight is only allowed two points, which must be saved for the new tool boxes.

 

[pepi]

I'm guessing an individual's definition of quality determines that one.

For cheapskates, if it's cheap, low ball it's quality. HF ***** em in like a whirlpool in the ocean .....

Others judge the quality using function & design as the bench mark....

So YES cost is an important aspect of quality ....... and why ....... there ain't no free lunch .

 

[dogdog]

I'm guessing an individual's definition of quality determines that one.

For cheapskates, if it's cheap, low ball it's quality. HF ***** em in like a whirlpool in the ocean .....

Others judge the quality using function & design as the bench mark....

So YES cost is an important aspect of quality ....... and why ....... there ain't no free lunch .

Not really.... Profit is the important aspect of quality

 

[zendriver]

Perhaps part of the huge success with Harbor Freight,is that people buy their tools to use them - to get something done, more so than a extension of a quest for perfection..

I used a bunch of them recently, to complete a bearing and brake job on my pick up. When I was done I wiped them all off and put them away for the next time.

They seem to get the job done and that's about what I expect them to do. If they were not "flawless" really made no difference to me.

A good quality tools when it gets the job done time after time.

It's the fine quality tools that are made to perfection






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[BDT/NWMN]

When tool shopping;
What are You willing to pay for the quality that satisfies You?
Some people are satisfied at a lower cost. Hello Harbor Freight and the other dime stores who serve their crowds well.

Hello middle road; lead Me to Proto, SK, and Wright for My price and satisfaction.

Hello again high road to Snap-on. I travel you often without regret.

 

[James-W]

I don't see the point of spending a ton of money on a tool you rarely use. If it is a tool you use all the time, that's one thing, but for those tools you very seldom use, why spend so much money on it when a less expensive tool will do the job? For example, I have a Skil jig saw that I have used for about 3 minutes one time in the past two years. Why do I need the best jig saw money can buy when I use it for three minutes every two years? My thinking is that for tools you use all the time, it pays to buy a tool of real good quality. For tools you rarely use, any tool that can get the job done is all you need. Also, I would say that if you make your living with the tool, then get a real good one.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

My thinking is that for tools you use all the time, it pays to buy a tool of real good quality. For tools you rarely use, any tool that can get the job done is all you need. Also, I would say that if you make your living with the tool, then get a real good one.

So many outside of the professional world lack the experience to accurately draw this conclusion.

 

[visionguru]

I have never bought anything from Harbor Freight that could remotely be described as good quality.

Serviceable quality, occasionally, but never good quality.

The last time I was in a HF store (on vacation last summer near Norfolk), I stopped in a HF store specifically to look at their highly acclaimed wrench sets. The broaching on the open end was just plain horrible. It was so bad that I distinctly remember pointing it out to my wife.

For all the ragging here about Craftsman quality, I have never seen anything approaching the garbage I saw, once again, at HF.

I left with my coupon in my wallet.

Who told you HF wrench sets are "highly acclaimed"?

You should avoid the wrench isle, most HF wrenches are low quality "made in India".

 

[Shane6377]

I have never bought anything from Harbor Freight that could remotely be described as good quality.



Serviceable quality, occasionally, but never good quality.



The last time I was in a HF store (on vacation last summer near Norfolk), I stopped in a HF store specifically to look at their highly acclaimed wrench sets. The broaching on the open end was just plain horrible. It was so bad that I distinctly remember pointing it out to my wife.



For all the ragging here about Craftsman quality, I have never seen anything approaching the garbage I saw, once again, at HF.



I left with my coupon in my wallet.

I have several things of high quality from HF. The first that springs to mind is my chainsaw sharpener. Had it for years and sharpened hundreds of chains.

The issue I see with HF is not quality, it's quality CONTROL. I've heard others report that their sharpeners didn't last a week yet mine has been great.

I don't own any of the wrenches but would venture to say the same is true since some people rave about them and others have had a bad experience.


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