Does every shop have a tech...

[Simplespeed]

I dont understand the guys that think they know it all. I mean, im out there soaking up every piece of knowledge anyone will throw at me. I never sit down. If theres no work for me, im under the hood with our lead tech seein' what hes doing. Dudes got tools iv never seen or heard of and hes showing me how to use them for free. You cant learn that at school.

I started in the auto business a few years ago mounting tires at a custom wheel shop and doing alignments. Then went to a lumber yard mounting tires on tractor trailers. Im always showing the older guys how to properly mount and dismount very low profile tires on very large wheels. When you think you cant learn anything from someone else, your fucked. I also get all the big truck tires that nobody wants to touch as well as certain alignments that some guys are scared of. Its not the greatest skill in the world, i mean, its tires. But im only about 5 years into the auto world so it feels good to be recognized in the shop for something other than the young guy.

Back on topic. Yes, we have "that guy" in our shop. Needs help for everything, which is fine. But when iv showed you how to set the toe using win toe 10 times this week and you still dont get it, the next alignment is mine. No more for you. What? You want to borrow my vacuum bleeder again? Thats like the 12th time. Go buy your own right now or give me the ticket. BUY SOME TOOLS! How can you have an electrical and engine performance ASE and not know how to do an oil change without having at least 2 come backs every week? And what does that tell you about our manager? I hope he replaces an engine before the end of the month. This tech is 42 yrs old and im 26yrs old. I respect my elders so it took a lot for me to finally open my mouth and tell this guy how it is. Freakin corporate world is ridiculous. Im soaking up all the free training i can get and im going to a real shop in a few years.

 

[TruckTech]

Every shop does have that guy/s. But keep in mind, everyone is a ***** to someone, people do have bad days, and good help can be VERY hard to find.

They had an article a few months ago about 2 Army guys fixing some of their equipment. Fixed a leak on a CAT motor. I was thinking, ok these are Army mechanics and that is worthy of a news article?

http://www.jber.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123249502

I have been in the AF for about 10 years and I know MANY people that can't think outside of the box. If the reg or TO doesn't specifically say pick up 1/2" wrench, put it on so and so bolt, they have NO idea what they are doing.
Unfortunately often times those are the people in charge too.

Couple years ago I rebuilt an old Tennant floor scrubber. Had been in storage for years and the mice/rabbits ate the wiring and other parts. I put new batteries, redid the wiring. Spent 2 or 3 days on it. Got it all working good, then was told I couldn't use it to clean the floor because I wasn't trained on how to operate it.
HUH??

For the record, I currently work with several former military mechanics that are extremely knowledgeable.

As for this article, WTF? Seven days to do a gear train? How many smoke breaks are these guys taking? $100,000? Yah, because it makes perfect sense to buy and engine because of leaks. I like the "crankshaft" theyre pulling and inspecting.

 

[Sick Puppy]

He decided it was the headgasket and got the go-ahead as such. He completely disregarded my diagnosis and decided that a cylinder full of coolant must be a blown head gasket.

So, did he at any point realise he was wrong, and did he care?

Financially, does his job leave the business any better off? I mean, his job I imagine takes longer (so more $$$), but the added time could have been spent on other jobs... ($$$ evens out) just makes no sense to me I guess!

 

[Drew_flux]

only one? there are 7 of those guys at my work. trying to tell one today wraping a usb cable around a VIM to store it was not a good work practice. He shakes his head and wanders off.an hour later whilst reflashing an ecu the cable finaly went open circuit and turned the ecu into a brick. just cant tell some people. also the reason i have my own vim and cable set.

 

[diesel research]

A ClassIII leak is one that forms puddles on the ground, and term is used in regular fleetshops as well.

A ClassI is the common seepage found on bottom of older cars, and especially trucks with road draft tubes. A little sheen or wetness to the metal, but no drops or drips or puddles. Usually isn't pinpointable to a single location and takes a long time to redevelop after pressure washing.

A II is when a drop begins to form around something like a pan rail, seal, or threaded plug. Hasn't dripped, but is pin pointable to a specific area.

A III is actively leaking to the ground like a rock through the oil pan or busted rad hose.

______________________________

Agreed fully with what you said. The level of maintenance that can be done by a mechanic is determined by the unit and organization. Four IIIRC) basic levels are unit, Direct Support, General Support, and Depot. The most any Army mechanic will every be able to do is change a few basic maintenance items, and do PMs. When it's time for some serious diagnostic or repairs, they will call in the DD/Allsion, or Cummins, etc contractors to do the job. Most major posts have the contractors assigned full time stateside and overseas.

So close, but so far off. Operator would be the first level. He is responsible for pre/post tripping and installation of various parts up to tires/track pads, some lights, ect ect. Fluids are his job.

Unit level does PMs like AVIs or services. They will also do work to the outside of powertrain, along with rest of vehicle, so long as it doesn't take fabrication or serious indepth removal. They will also "prep" a vehicle if more extensive repairs are required such as engine overhaul or removal. That would be taking care of hoses, front clip, rad, ect ect.

DS/GS is heavy line. This is removal of major powertain components, cylinder heads, injection pumps, differentials, ect ect. The GS guys rebuild some components (injection pumps, starters, alternators), light fabrication ect ect.

Depot is a mostly contract work and is typically a "frame-off restoration" type shop that refurbishes worn vehicles to like new condition. Bumper to bumper. This is also where powertrain remanufacturing takes place. Similar to when you install a goodwrench crate engine. A lot of these are assembly-line type operations.

A contractor would rarely be called on site, except for specific technical equipment or when time/manpower is not available.

For example, an M1 abrahms has complaints of low power. Has worn turbines. The driver will take basic steps in engine removal prep. A direct support guy will do most of the engine disconnecting, and removal. He will install the new "crate turbine" or pack, and the old one is canned up and sent off to a depot.

 

[housey]

Theres only 6 guys including me working where I work and everyone except one are good or great workers. The one that isn't certainly isn't bad, he is still a hard worker and generally does quality work, just shows no initiative to the point where even as a first year apprentice I often end up telling him what job to do or he just sits on his ***.

We are a small store with the companies main operations done in a larger shop where all the employees seem to be "that guy". We sent them a $300,000 job to build a VSD unit for some rather large fans, portable office building arrives on the back of a truck looking neat except for one of the walls was visibly bulging out. We opened it up to find they had secured 3 top heavy panels, about 3 tonnes in total in place with 1 length of unistrut, a few hardware store spec bookshelf brackets and 6 teck screws. Unsurprisingly they all toppled over in transport. We are in the middle of testing but it looks like atleast some of the electrical gear inside is stuffed

 

[TheGrooveking]

I have argued with Human Resources countless times when they schedule an interview for a new tech that the set it up for 1/2 hour. I request 3 hours, they balk, what, why so long, and even after multiple times of explaining they don' get it. I need to prove to myself that this person is capable of doing the job, not giving my stock answers they read somewhere.

I've interviewed Maintenance Supervisors/Manager for 2 or 3 days for some of our largest plants. Some candidates where great up until the 2nd or 3rd day when they let their guard down and reveal some scray info. For instance - tell me about some cost cutting iniatives you've successfully implemented? Reponse - well I tried some generic air / oil separators for our rotary screw compressors, they saved us over $300 a pieice, which annuallized out to $6,000". When I asked how they worked out, what was the feedback from the installing techs and did you see any changes in the results coming back from the compressors' oil analysis? The guy responds well we found out the hard way that the OEM separators had staples in them around the rim of the top of the unit that were not on the generic units. We found out the hard way that they were there for grounding since compressors build up huge electrostatic charges in their separators, one unit exploded and almost burned down the whole East side of the building."

Had I not asked the right question and had not taken the time to get the guy to open up I would never had known that he didn't know enough about his equipment to be making important decisions.

I had another guy who on the thrid day started using foul language when referencing his previous subordinates, this showed me that he would be probably abusive to the new guys had I hired him. So as previously mentioned it goes back to interviewing skills.

TheGrooveking

 

[Moose-LandTran]

well it does for me.and that's all that matters to me.and i believe that by asking specific questions that you can absolutely weed out some of the fakes.

Can you give us some examples then?

I dont understand the guys that think they know it all. I mean, im out there soaking up every piece of knowledge anyone will throw at me.

Same here, unfortunately there are lots of mechs out there who are of the opinion they know it all or think "I've made it this far on what i know, i don't need any more." They're totally unwilling to put any more into themselves. The other mech i work with is like this, he thinks i'm the idiot when i spend time trying to learn more using my multimeter and scopemeter. Sees it as a waste of time. His idea of testing an ABS sensor is seeing if it throws a fault code.

I spend hours every night reading books and articles on electrics so i can get better. I'm not sure this guy has ever even picked up a book.

Problem for me at work is that the boss is no different. Doesn't want me "wasting" time doing proper diag. Pull codes, if there's a code it must be faulty and needs to be replaced. If you get a code, he doesn't want you spending time testing the part. In many cases he isn't even aware that you can test certain parts.

We have an apprentice at work, in two and a half years he really hasn't done much at all. He does brakes and services, little things. Never done a clutch, never done a cam belt, today did his first headgasket. (constantly assisted by the other mech.) But says he wants to progress. He shows no willing, he doesn't tell the boss he wants to do certain jobs, he doesn't make any effort to better himself or learn, he just says he does. He also doesn't own any of his own tools. Not even a flashlight.

He's holding himself back, in this time he hasn't done much work or gained much experience. The boss doesn't have the confidence in him to let him do those jobs, i believe, partly because he doesn't show he wants to do them. I'd been a mech for about 2 weeks before i did my first cam belt, without assistance. (I did ask another mech for a couple pointers, and had Autodata timing instructions.)

So, did he at any point realise he was wrong, and did he care?

Financially, does his job leave the business any better off? I mean, his job I imagine takes longer (so more $$$), but the added time could have been spent on other jobs... ($$$ evens out) just makes no sense to me I guess!

Oh no, he does no wrong. Not in his own eyes anyway. Me, if i screw up (and i have) i'll own up to it. If i'm wrong, i'll admit it. But not him, and there's no use in tryring to argue your point, you won't get through. That particular job is done now. ~£900 instead of ~£80.

Numerous times he's accused me of wrecking something or doing something wrong and every time it's either turned out to not be my fault or that he was wrong and no damage was caused. Did he apologise? Never.

I replaced a cam on a Vauxhall not long ago, i wanted to get oil up to the head before starting the engine so i turned the cam so all the valves were on no or very little lift, checked very carefully by hand there would be no valve collision then used and air ratchet to spin the engine and pump oil. He startings screaming that i'd bent all the valves and ruined the engine, etc.

Oh yeah, that thing pushed over 200psi on the compression test and started right up. Didn't get no apology either.

only one? there are 7 of those guys at my work. trying to tell one today wraping a usb cable around a VIM to store it was not a good work practice.

Please excuse my ignorance, but what does that mean?

 

[tool_enthusiast]

Hey moose, you sound like you're one of the better mechanics out there. Keep up the great work ethic!

When you think about it, the slackers in the work-place probably even apply to professional sports. The All Stars probably have a harder work ethic than the bench guys which is why they become All Stars. The guys sitting on the bench probably don't take pride in their work as much. It's funny how every industry probably has that "guy" who everyone can see right through.

 

[ZRX61]

Every shop has one, if you don't know who it is in your shop.. it's probably you

 

[ZRX61]

I turned wrenches on heavy jets in the Navy for 5 years.....

Heavy? in the USN? According to who?

 

[ZRX61]

WTF?? I just read the link about the 2 US Aarmy guys who have been put forward for a medal for changing a ******* head gasket???

So if they get a boo-boo while changing the head gasket do they get a Purple Heart?

WTF?? seriously, just WTF???

 

[petefixer]

ZRX61,

My thoughts exactly! I have roughly 12 experience and have done numerous in frame rebuilds and never received my medals! The army was advertising for a diesel mechanic so I checked on it, met a recruiter and found out that even with my experience and certifications I wouldnt likely not end up being a mechanic. Infantry is more what there idea was. Are you kidding me????

 

[diesel research]

ZRX61,

My thoughts exactly! I have roughly 12 experience and have done numerous in frame rebuilds and never received my medals! The army was advertising for a diesel mechanic so I checked on it, met a recruiter and found out that even with my experience and certifications I wouldnt likely not end up being a mechanic. Infantry is more what there idea was. Are you kidding me????

If you are good enough (not experience, general intelligence/technical) you can demand any job you want (as long as you have clean record)

If he told you this AFTER taking the entrance test (asvab), that typically means a low score.

If he tells you this w/o ever taking the test, he is just pulling the wool over your eyes and trying to fill slots.

 

[mrb]

...who other fellow techs wonder how they got the job in the first place?

I'm not in the auto repair field, but in my job which is technical by nature (telecommunications), we have some people who just don't know what the (fill in the blank here) _______ they are doing. I wonder how they got this far in their job when they clearly lack basic technical skills. Probably their manager won't have a clue because managers are not expected to be technical, but their peers can all see right through them.

Was just wondering if the same thing applies in the auto repair or contractor business.

I hear you. a couple weeks ago I repaired a DS1 circuit (i dont do this day to day, I overheard it being discussed and offered to take a look) that neither major telco (issue was after the smartjack), or the telecom / IT department of the fairly large company running the place was able to diagnose and fix.

 

[Technic_569]

It looks like this thread has turned out to be more of the "Does every workplace have/has hired a bonehead" thread.

While i don't work specifically in a auto repair shop, i have seen a bunch of boneheads go through the shop that i work at. One of the guys in particular, nicknamed "Flash" was a new guy that came in apparently already knowing how to weld. My boss asked to weld on some mud flap mounts to a car carrier. My boss had to go out on a call leaving this guy and me at the shop. I was working on something completely different but i watched this guy grab a 110 Welder, sit under the bed of the truck without gloves or a welding hood and procede to weld the mounts on!

I walked over and asked him why the F*ck he was doing welding without a hood, let alone gloves. His Reply: "I weld better without a hood than with one"

I repeatedly told him that he was gonna get arc eye and that he would regret this later on tonight. Again His Reply: As long as you don't look directly at the light you are fine.

I would have done something more drastic if I wasn't a good 15 years younger than him and me only being 17.

He left before the boss got back that day, and as it turns out he got Arc Eye and didn't come in for two days. On the third day he came back and promptly got fired.

Oh, and adding on to the story he was asked to take the lugs off a rear truck wheel and he brought out a 1/2 inch ratchet and the correct socket but couldn't get the lugs off. He brought out the torches and proceeded to heat up the lug nuts.

 

[petefixer]

I took the asvab at 19 years old and am now 29. That was 10 years ago and he was still going off of that score. Even then i remember them telling me chances are I wouldnt make it into the mechanic world. They told me this last visit that I would need so much training to catch up to the other techs in the military I might as well not plan on that route. I could be master certified if I renewed, and am one of 2 lead techs at an international truck dealership. And I cant catch up to their techs????

 

[diesel research]

Probably just full of it. There were a lot of former techs in there. Dealer and fleet both. Similar in age as well.

If part of your technical training was in some form of accredited school, you would get advanced from the get go. You would still go through their training.

Once arriving at the training school, you would have the option to challenge any course you felt you could beat, and put yourself several weeks ahead. Wouldn't earn you extra money, but would get you into a shop quicker.

Your senior status would be gone, but might be regained relatively quickly. It could be technically feasible to hold the position mentioned in that article, within 3-5yrs. Not those gasket changers, but the guy who thought there was a need for an award. His position pays around $55k. Well he probably makes 65, but that would be what someone would get paid with a short time in. That may be less than you have now, I don't know.

You wouldn't be at much of any disadvantage over anyone else, except for learning a new curve. Different system, different support routine, different vehicle. Using things like nexiq and doing overheads may become less important, while learning to troubleshoot a TOW missile launcher with a fluke 87 may have more priority or learning to troubleshoot various types of "awd" or mechanical injection systems like on the VT903, 855, gm 6.2, c series, 8v92 (mmm...rack adjustments) ect ect.

Not tryin to talk anyone into it, just clarifying a bit.

 

[Simplespeed]

Im not "that guy" in our shop but i do know that i am known for having a bad attitude and temper. Its something im working on and i constantly apologize to the other mechanics if i make them uncomfortable. None of my negativity is ever directed at them but the pos service advisors and managers.

What i dont understand is why they are so content with making their same little bitty pay check every week. I mean dont we wanna get further? Sell bigger jobs and do more in depth work? Make more money? Buy more tools and giant tool boxes? I always get this" Nah man if thats what you want this isnt the place. They want lube techs and one lead tech" Just do you oil change and shut up or they will get rid of you."

Unfortunately this seems to be the attitude in most shops around these parts. And it mostly comes down to hiring people who have no sales aptitude or experience as well as mechanics with no mechanic ability and no drive to make a better life for themselves.

After Hurrican Katrina, Houston has become a sad hopeless place.

 

[Toolhorder]

ZRX61,

My thoughts exactly! I have roughly 12 experience and have done numerous in frame rebuilds and never received my medals! The army was advertising for a diesel mechanic so I checked on it, met a recruiter and found out that even with my experience and certifications I wouldnt likely not end up being a mechanic. Infantry is more what there idea was. Are you kidding me????

Wow totally the other way for me. Went to a Marine place to sign up and I took the ASVAB or whatever they call it and they wanted me to sign as a light vehicle diesel mechanic. Said they never had a kid past the mechanical portion of the test 100%.
I was already working at a dealership then though and knew my way around an engine with a wrench.

 

[diesel research]

Im not "that guy" in our shop but i do know that i am known for having a bad attitude and temper. Its something im working on and i constantly apologize to the other mechanics if i make them uncomfortable. None of my negativity is ever directed at them but the pos service advisors and managers.

What i dont understand is why they are so content with making their same little bitty pay check every week. I mean dont we wanna get further? Sell bigger jobs and do more in depth work? Make more money? Buy more tools and giant tool boxes? I always get this" Nah man if thats what you want this isnt the place. They want lube techs and one lead tech" Just do you oil change and shut up or they will get rid of you."

Unfortunately this seems to be the attitude in most shops around these parts. And it mostly comes down to hiring people who have no sales aptitude or experience as well as mechanics with no mechanic ability and no drive to make a better life for themselves.

After Hurrican Katrina, Houston has become a sad hopeless place.

Do you work at a dodge dealer?

 

[ZRX61]

Wow totally the other way for me. Went to a Marine place to sign up and I took the ASVAB or whatever they call it and they wanted me to sign as a light vehicle diesel mechanic. Said they never had a kid past the mechanical portion of the test 100%.
I was already working at a dealership then though and knew my way around an engine with a wrench.

That's because the guys with 100% on that part are all in the Air Force

 

[petefixer]

Probably just full of it. There were a lot of former techs in there. Dealer and fleet both. Similar in age as well.

If part of your technical training was in some form of accredited school, you would get advanced from the get go. You would still go through their training.

Once arriving at the training school, you would have the option to challenge any course you felt you could beat, and put yourself several weeks ahead. Wouldn't earn you extra money, but would get you into a shop quicker.

Your senior status would be gone, but might be regained relatively quickly. It could be technically feasible to hold the position mentioned in that article, within 3-5yrs. Not those gasket changers, but the guy who thought there was a need for an award. His position pays around $55k. Well he probably makes 65, but that would be what someone would get paid with a short time in. That may be less than you have now, I don't know.

You wouldn't be at much of any disadvantage over anyone else, except for learning a new curve. Different system, different support routine, different vehicle. Using things like nexiq and doing overheads may become less important, while learning to troubleshoot a TOW missile launcher with a fluke 87 may have more priority or learning to troubleshoot various types of "awd" or mechanical injection systems like on the VT903, 855, gm 6.2, c series, 8v92 (mmm...rack adjustments) ect ect.

Not tryin to talk anyone into it, just clarifying a bit.

That is all old technology...it would be relaxing! I guess maybe i need to shop some more recuiters. The money is about what i am making now. I am just looking for better benefits and sooner retirement! Boot camp is gonna blow! I am so out of shape!

 

[diesel research]

That is all old technology...it would be relaxing! I guess maybe i need to shop some more recuiters. The money is about what i am making now. I am just looking for better benefits and sooner retirement! Boot camp is gonna blow! I am so out of shape!

Yes, you are absolutely correct, most is old technology and almost all are non emissions. Unfortunately, with old technology, comes forgotten methods. It also means the nexiq and insite which is there to help you currently, is gone. The cat 3116/3126 is one of the few exceptions. Using the TechII on trannies is another exception.

Means less motorwork in general, as there are relatively few failure points. the proper tools are probably not available. the sweeney gauge is no where to be found, there isn't going to be a compression tester in sight, and dang sure no one has heard of the diesel timing light. Plenty of auto ****** work day in and day out. Usually not overhaul type unless parts can be sourced easily. Then you have your normal day to day IPs, water pumps, ect ect. Along with a lot of strange accessory equipment. Lots of working outside or at night time in a variety of weather.

The average guy ends up in unit level maintenance and couldn't change a headgasket on the typical fwd car in a dealership. On the other hand, the average tech in a dealership, may be very likely to DIE or be seriously injured from the seemingly simple task of removing/dismounting a wheel/tire. Only because they may not have encountered split rims, daytons, or multi piece rims, and many people mistake the rim clamp bolts for lug nuts. What I mean is it's not if one is necessarily more skilled than the other, rather just differing skill-sets. tool selection could range from amazingly awesome (preiously posted picture) to down right dismal and archaic. Some have air, some don't. Something that a lot of people take for granted.

 

[Simplespeed]

Do you work at a dodge dealer?

Nope.

 

[diesel research]

Nope.

Where is this bad dealer or shop, so I can avoid them?

 

[ZRX61]

A ClassIII leak is one that forms puddles on the ground, and term is used in regular fleetshops as well.

A ClassI is the common seepage found on bottom of older cars, and especially trucks with road draft tubes. A little sheen or wetness to the metal, but no drops or drips or puddles. Usually isn't pinpointable to a single location and takes a long time to redevelop after pressure washing.

A II is when a drop begins to form around something like a pan rail, seal, or threaded plug. Hasn't dripped, but is pin pointable to a specific area.

A III is actively leaking to the ground like a rock through the oil pan or busted rad hose.

Curiosity got the better of me....

19
What is a class 1 leak?
Seepage of fluid not great enough to form drops
20
What is a class 2 leak?
Seepage of fluid great enough to form drops, but not great enough to cause the drops to fall during inspection
21
What is a class 3 leak?
Seepage of fluid great enough to form drops and drip during inspection

 

[Moose-LandTran]

Hey moose, you sound like you're one of the better mechanics out there. Keep up the great work ethic!

Well, trying to be anyway. I do what i do, learn what i can and put it to use when i get the opportunity. Unfortunately where i work many things are fixed properly the second time around.

Every shop has one, if you don't know who it is in your shop.. it's probably you

Many of "those guys" think everyone else is "that guy". Other mech at work does, he's all experience and no brain power. Decent on parts changing, useless on (majority of) diag.

[Welding Story]

One of the donuts at work thinks he can weld, but it's all tack welding, never pushed a single bead. I've seen him weld in a piece, which i then pulled off by hand. First time i ever used a MIG machine i did an infinitely better job and still think it was ****! (I was quite proud of it though..)

So, did he at any point realise he was wrong, and did he care?

Financially, does his job leave the business any better off? I mean, his job I imagine takes longer (so more $$$), but the added time could have been spent on other jobs... ($$$ evens out) just makes no sense to me I guess!

Here's a couple more for you, from today.

Passat fails its MoT (safety inspection) yesterday, one thing being washers not working. I'm told to clean the pump filter screen. Now, i know that VW don't use filter screens on washer pump pickups, but remove the pump and check it anyway.

Test the pump, works fine, blow through the pipes, there's a blockage. Boss reckons it's the pump, i tell him it isn't but he's convinced. Replace the pump, obviously no change. I check the pipe up by the bonnet hinge, sure enough it's kinked. Cut out the kinked section, replace with rubber vacuum pipe, washers work!

Customer gets to pay £28 (+ labour) for unneeded washer pump.

Corolla comes in with intermittant ABS fault. (Lights goes on and off.)

Apprentince pulls codes ("Initial diag" £47.) "C0215 Rear left wheel speed sensor no signal." Boss says it must be the ABS wheel speed sensor, order one from Toyota. (@ £122.) I replace the sensor, and clear the codes, as instructed. Car is road tested, light still goes on and off, fault code "C0215 Rear left wheel speed sensor no signal." Retrieved.

Check sensor with scopemeter, checks out fine, perfect waveform, checks out same as rear right sensor. Join ABS sensor plug terminals with a paperclip, connect multimeter to rear left sensor wires at the ABS pump, set multimeter to continuity mode, find a faulty connection where the ABS sensor wiring joins the main wiring harness, by the rear door. Clean up the connections, check again, check with scopemeter at the ABS pump end. Connect diag machine and carry out road test (z0mg! our crappy diag machine actually does live data for Toyota!) and find all sensors working fine, all speeds matching and no fault codes.

Total cost to customer ~£300.

 

[diesel research]

Yes, and as you may have noticed, "dripping during inspection" is actively leaking.

 

[tool_enthusiast]

Here's a couple more for you, from today.

Passat fails its MoT (safety inspection) yesterday, one thing being washers not working. I'm told to clean the pump filter screen. Now, i know that VW don't use filter screens on washer pump pickups, but remove the pump and check it anyway.

Test the pump, works fine, blow through the pipes, there's a blockage. Boss reckons it's the pump, i tell him it isn't but he's convinced. Replace the pump, obviously no change. I check the pipe up by the bonnet hinge, sure enough it's kinked. Cut out the kinked section, replace with rubber vacuum pipe, washers work!

Customer gets to pay £28 (+ labour) for unneeded washer pump.

Corolla comes in with intermittant ABS fault. (Lights goes on and off.)

Apprentince pulls codes ("Initial diag" £47.) "C0215 Rear left wheel speed sensor no signal." Boss says it must be the ABS wheel speed sensor, order one from Toyota. (@ £122.) I replace the sensor, and clear the codes, as instructed. Car is road tested, light still goes on and off, fault code "C0215 Rear left wheel speed sensor no signal." Retrieved.

Check sensor with scopemeter, checks out fine, perfect waveform, checks out same as rear right sensor. Join ABS sensor plug terminals with a paperclip, connect multimeter to rear left sensor wires at the ABS pump, set multimeter to continuity mode, find a faulty connection where the ABS sensor wiring joins the main wiring harness, by the rear door. Clean up the connections, check again, check with scopemeter at the ABS pump end. Connect diag machine and carry out road test (z0mg! our crappy diag machine actually does live data for Toyota!) and find all sensors working fine, all speeds matching and no fault codes.

Total cost to customer ~£300.

But if the diagnostics turned out to be something else, the customer still has to pay for the unneeded part that got swapped out, like in the case of the washer pump? So are you saying the bad techs can cause the customer extra money?

 

[Moose-LandTran]

But if the diagnostics turned out to be something else, the customer still has to pay for the unneeded part that got swapped out, like in the case of the washer pump? So are you saying the bad techs can cause the customer extra money?

Yes, they still charge the customer for the part. They also don't tell the customer that it wasn't that part at fault. Now, i know that all these parts can be tested, one way or another, they don't think that and believe in "process of elimination" part replacement.

Yes, the incorrect diagnosis and ignorant/arrogant boss cost the customer extra money. I try in vein to explain things to him, but i get nowhere. I hate it, but until i secure another job i'm stuck in it.

 

[tool_enthusiast]

Yes, they still charge the customer for the part. They also don't tell the customer that it wasn't that part at fault. Now, i know that all these parts can be tested, one way or another, they don't think that and believe in "process of elimination" part replacement.

Yes, the incorrect diagnosis and ignorant/arrogant boss cost the customer extra money. I try in vein to explain things to him, but i get nowhere. I hate it, but until i secure another job i'm stuck in it.

Man, that sure ***** for the customer then. You should open up a shop and be that "honest" mechanic people go to. You will surely get a lot of business from word of mouth.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

Man, that sure ***** for the customer then.

It does. And for me, i hate that aspect of it. When i do my own work i am liable for incorrect diag, i don't throw parts at something unless i know they're faulty, and should i be wrong they're paid for out of my pocket. Changed a clutch for a friend a while back, (labour) for free. Broke the reverse light switch while doing it, paid for the replacement myself.

You should open up a shop and be that "honest" mechanic people go to. You will surely get a lot of business from word of mouth.

That's the plan. I do my own work and get my work through word of mouth, got me a pretty decent reputation among my customers.

 

[diesel research]

Are you not confident enough in your diagnostic skills to defy your foreman's "orders"? I understand that could result in termination, but unless he is specifically looking over your shoulder every moment, how would he know? Unless he pre-diagnoses all vehicles for you?

 

[Moose-LandTran]

Are you not confident enough in your diagnostic skills to defy your foreman's "orders"? I understand that could result in termination, but unless he is specifically looking over your shoulder every moment, how would he know? Unless he pre-diagnoses all vehicles for you?

If i do the initial diag, then the whole thing is (pretty much) in my hands. If our apprentice/other mech puts the diag machine on it, and it comes up with ABS sensors then between him and the boss they will arrange to get one and often i'll be the one fitting it, then fixing the actual problem shortly after.

If i do the initial diag, find a problem, do my further diag and such then i get it all my way and replace what's needed instead of taking stabs in the dark. When i do the diag from the off i get left to identify the problem, because i'm the only one there who's actually capable of it.

I do argue with him over incorrect diagnosis all the time, but he doesn't listen and once he's got his mind set that something needs changing he wants it changed and it will get changed. I have defied him before and it went down very badly and put my job at risk. If i didn't have rent and a credit card to pay i wouldn't worry about that though.

 

[diesel research]

So how does it turn out if his pre diagnosis does not fix the problem?

 

[Moose-LandTran]

So how does it turn out if his pre diagnosis does not fix the problem?

I get to diagnose the actual problem, fix/replace what's needed and (usually) the customer ends up paying for that as well. I don't really deal with customers so i don't know what's exchanged between them and the boss.

Example, if this car today got a new ABS sensor, light went out and customer paid and took the car. Then returned later on with the light back on and same codes i'd then do my diag, find and fix the problem and the boss would tell them they also had a wiring fault.

 

[diesel research]

Oh sounds like you never have to do a rework for free.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

Oh sounds like you never have to do a rework for free.

To be honest, i don't know how often the customer ends up paying or how often the shop swallows the cost, as i don't deal with much admin stuff. As far as i know, it's usually the customer who ends up paying.

 

[Simplespeed]

Where is this bad dealer or shop, so I can avoid them?

Its a firestone in houston. When i go to district training all the techs are happy and say theyre making good money. I believe our stores location and the change in the type of people in the area after hurrican katrina coupled with our crappy store manager are going to have this shop shut down in less than 5 years. From what i hear though, alot of techs love working for firestone. Just not this store. We get made fun of for always being last in the district as far as profits because it was once one of the highest stores.