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Does this mean I'm a mechanic now?

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mojo_13

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Just picked up the Actron 9180 that I ordered from advancedautoparts.com for what I think is a pretty good deal. I am just a diy guy (oil changes, spark plugs, tires, etc) but have always wanted to mess around with one of these. First thought was wow it has alot of features I need to figure out but I hooked it up to mine and my girlfriends cars and ran a test and pulled a code on hers and her CES light wasn't even on.

It will be fun to mess around with this and figure out all the features. Oh and I know this definately doesn't make me a mechanic, I will never be to that level, just a guy who likes to mess around with tools:bounce:

EDIT: I was not trying to say this made me a real mechanic it was just a bad joke, I apologize for my bad humor.
 
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mojo_13

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mooman said:
What was the code and what did you do about it???
Click to expand...

It was a P0341 on my girlfriends Saturn. Said it was a Camshaft Position Sensor which her car does not have. Read up on it and found that it can be a few different things one of which could be plugs and wires (which I had in the garage waiting to be put on) so I switched them out and the code is gone, at least for now.
 
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MechanicNamedJohn

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mojo_13 said:
What do you mean? I know that the scanner will do live data also just don't know enough about the unit to know how or why to use it.
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Live data will be your best friend. It will really help with diagnosing a problem. Example: DIY'er who's trigger happy with the parts shotgun. He has a misfire, no vacuum gauge, but a can of carb cleaner, no vacuum leaks found. Cocking backing on the fore-end of the parts shotgun. Bang, bang, new plugs and wires. Still misses. Bang, bang; new fuel filter, and fuel pump. Still misses. Bang, bang. new distributor/coil packs. Still misses. After that, he takes it to a mechanic.

Mechanic uses live data, see that ecm thinks the coolant temp is -30degrees. Replaces $8.00 dollar sensor, and give DIY'er a bill for $150.00.

Bang, slug to the head, because he just wasted over $500 in parts. LOL
 
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jay50

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We call people like you, "scanner techs". LOL
Those types are dangerous to themselves and waste a lot of money because they don't know that codes are just like a compass; they point you in the direction of the problem.

Actron scanners are toys, I've got over $12000 in professional scanners alone, not counting updates.
 
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bmxr4life87

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Exactly what john says all too often "mechanics" will sling parts quicker than any diyer sad part is we are encouraged to use live datascanners at work but only a few of us do! I love it personally it makes it super easy to diag those itermittent problems
 
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Coach James

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mojo, congrats on the new tool. Enjoy using it. Read up all you can, understand the limitations of the scanner and it can certainly be helfpul. I have a similar one, Innova 3150, and it has helped me several times. It didn't always tell me exactly what was wrong, but it gave me a point in the right direction so I was looking at four possibilities instead of twenty. Mine was money well spent.

And don't let the downers make you think you made a mistake. Your Actron can make your repair jobs easier.

Coach
 
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mtkst19

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it is good you bought it. However, just like any other tool now you need to learn how to use it properly.

as mentioned, there is a lot of techs at shops who dont know how to use them too. i dont know how many times i have gotten a car w/ a bad air flow meter that another shop replaced the 1st o2 sensor on due to a bank 1 02 sensor fault.

in this instance of a bad mass air flow meter, a quick road test w/ the live data will tell you the problem. the air flow meter should be .8 % of the horsepower of the car a top end. so a 100 horsepower car, at wide open throttle pull, should be around 80 grams/sec air flow.

to further pinpoint the issue, after the road test i would go into short term and long term fuel trims to see how much they are + or -. you should never be at zero, as no car is perfect. however, you should have a +/- of 5, maybe even up to 10 % before the check engine light comes on. if one of these readings are way off (in this instance, long term would be way off), it just helped solidify my case to replace the maf.

in the end, you got the tools, now you need the knowledge. i imagine it came w/ a book. read it front to back. it has to tell you what different things do and give you tips/pointers on what to look for.
 
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GeorgiaHybrid

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The scanner will give you the info from the ECU. The "live" data is the info from the sensor BEFORE it gets to the ECU. It is often called "Front Door" (sensor data) and "Back Door" (ECU scanner data). You can do the same thing with your Actron and a digital multimeter and I know a LOT of guys that are very good with them.

Most pros however use a little more expensive tool for the job as the tests can be run faster with hints on what to look for. That speed comes at a cost however and when your diagnostic gear starts running $3,000 to $10,000 for a setup, all but a few of us DIY'ers back off and take the long way around or meet with a pro to get the job done. One thing as noted above, don't take the scan tool for what it says, you need to look at the root cause of the problem.
 
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mojo_13

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Coach James said:
mojo, congrats on the new tool. Enjoy using it. Read up all you can, understand the limitations of the scanner and it can certainly be helfpul. I have a similar one, Innova 3150, and it has helped me several times. It didn't always tell me exactly what was wrong, but it gave me a point in the right direction so I was looking at four possibilities instead of twenty. Mine was money well spent.

And don't let the downers make you think you made a mistake. Your Actron can make your repair jobs easier.

Coach
Click to expand...

Thanks Coach, I will be sure to do alot of reading to me sometimes the research is the most fun. I understand it won't tell me exactly whats wrong but its more help than I had before so I figure it can't be all bad.

mtkst19 said:
it is good you bought it. However, just like any other tool now you need to learn how to use it properly.

as mentioned, there is a lot of techs at shops who dont know how to use them too. i dont know how many times i have gotten a car w/ a bad air flow meter that another shop replaced the 1st o2 sensor on due to a bank 1 02 sensor fault.

in this instance of a bad mass air flow meter, a quick road test w/ the live data will tell you the problem. the air flow meter should be .8 % of the horsepower of the car a top end. so a 100 horsepower car, at wide open throttle pull, should be around 80 grams/sec air flow.

to further pinpoint the issue, after the road test i would go into short term and long term fuel trims to see how much they are + or -. you should never be at zero, as no car is perfect. however, you should have a +/- of 5, maybe even up to 10 % before the check engine light comes on. if one of these readings are way off (in this instance, long term would be way off), it just helped solidify my case to replace the maf.

in the end, you got the tools, now you need the knowledge. i imagine it came w/ a book. read it front to back. it has to tell you what different things do and give you tips/pointers on what to look for.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice and I will be doing a TON of reading to get things figured out a little better. Do you happen to have any sources to start reading up on this type of thing such as what the numbers are suppose to be in your story above or is that just from past experiences. Just looking for a nudge in the right direction.

SpiderGearsMan said:
real mechanics always make the boss buy the scan tools
Click to expand...

I tried but the girlfriend wouldn't foot the bill:lol_hitti


GeorgiaHybrid said:
The scanner will give you the info from the ECU. The "live" data is the info from the sensor BEFORE it gets to the ECU. It is often called "Front Door" (sensor data) and "Back Door" (ECU scanner data). You can do the same thing with your Actron and a digital multimeter and I know a LOT of guys that are very good with them.

Most pros however use a little more expensive tool for the job as the tests can be run faster with hints on what to look for. That speed comes at a cost however and when your diagnostic gear starts running $3,000 to $10,000 for a setup, all but a few of us DIY'ers back off and take the long way around or meet with a pro to get the job done. One thing as noted above, don't take the scan tool for what it says, you need to look at the root cause of the problem.
Click to expand...

I know that the actron does live data and can store it so that I can print it out etc. I figure I can post the data on a "mechanic/garage" forum and have some people point me in the right direction of things to try. The $70 I spent on the scanner is no comparrison to the money they spend but like everyone has said it will be a good tool to point me in the right direction.
 
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Stick Figure

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not sure what type of cars you are going to be using it on, but i know 99% of the time the factory service manuals (at least the ones i've used) will hold your hand pretty well on what all could be the cause of the problem for any give code.
 
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mrholeshot

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SpiderGearsMan said:
real mechanics always make the boss buy the scan tools
Click to expand...

Before I opened my shop I always had my own scan tools. It insured I had work when others didn't. I still own one of the first OTC 1000s, 2000, 4000 (what a money maker that thing was) 4000E and several Genisys. I was just about to pull the trigger on a Pegisys when I had to shut my shop down. I've tried the Snap-On 2500 but wasn't cray about it and all those cartriges. I never had to share a shop owned scan tool with 6-7 other techs.
 
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mojo_13

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Stick Figure said:
not sure what type of cars you are going to be using it on, but i know 99% of the time the factory service manuals (at least the ones i've used) will hold your hand pretty well on what all could be the cause of the problem for any give code.
Click to expand...

I got the Haynes manual for both of our cars, where would I get the factory service manuals. I did a quick search and didn't find anything, I had heard sometimes you could find them on ebay on a burned cd but nothing came up.
 
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MechanicNamedJohn

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Stick Figure said:
not sure what type of cars you are going to be using it on, but i know 99% of the time the factory service manuals (at least the ones i've used) will hold your hand pretty well on what all could be the cause of the problem for any give code.
Click to expand...

Agreed, can't speak for all, but GM's manuals are great.
 
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oldtiger

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mojo_13 said:
Thanks Coach, I will be sure to do alot of reading to me sometimes the research is the most fun. I understand it won't tell me exactly whats wrong but its more help than I had before so I figure it can't be all bad.



Thanks for the advice and I will be doing a TON of reading to get things figured out a little better. Do you happen to have any sources to start reading up on this type of thing such as what the numbers are suppose to be in your story above or is that just from past experiences. Just looking for a nudge in the right direction.



I tried but the girlfriend wouldn't foot the bill:lol_hitti




I know that the actron does live data and can store it so that I can print it out etc. I figure I can post the data on a "mechanic/garage" forum and have some people point me in the right direction of things to try. The $70 I spent on the scanner is no comparrison to the money they spend but like everyone has said it will be a good tool to point me in the right direction.
Click to expand...
Good for you Mojo, as a fellow diy'er of sorts, it's always good to see someone take "the next step" in improving their skills and knowledge.
 
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bgott

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Mojo, you'll save that $70 the first time you or your girlfriend leave the gas cap loose and it sets an evap code.
 
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DavidB

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mojo_13 said:
I got the Haynes manual for both of our cars, where would I get the factory service manuals. I did a quick search and didn't find anything, I had heard sometimes you could find them on ebay on a burned cd but nothing came up.
Click to expand...

I've had good luck with Ebay but if you need it right now you can buy them from the publisher Helm, Inc. http://www.helminc.com

I'm glad some more reasonable folks started posting. I was beginning to think being a mechanic meant you had a huge chip on your shoulder. :bounce:

Edit: Doh Coach beat me to it.
 
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Stick Figure

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DavidB said:
I've had good luck with Ebay but if you need it right now you can buy them from the publisher Helm, Inc. http://www.helminc.com

I'm glad some more reasonable folks started posting. I was beginning to think being a mechanic meant you had a huge chip on your shoulder. :bounce:

Edit: Doh Coach beat me to it.
Click to expand...

Or if you can find a forum dedicated to your vehicles, they can give you some vehicle specific details. For example Honda guys will call them Helm manuals, Toyota MR2 guys nick named them BGB (Big Green Book), that can make it hard to search for it when its under a different names. Worse case give your local parts dept a call, not the cheapest option by any means.

Another good read for you may be the http://www.autoshop101.com/ website. Its Toyota based, but if you aren't familiar with how all the sensors interact with each other that may give you some more info.
 
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Fedwrench

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Strouty said:
Fedwrench, maybe you should read your signature line? LOL no drama just fun!
Click to expand...

That was my point, what good is a scan tool if you don't understand the information it's showing you. Anyway, I think it's great that scan tools have become so affordable. If nothing else, you can least know why the check engine light is on. I wouldn't get too comfortable with flow charts and pinpoint tests though. They'll be around for some time to come but, all of the Domestic OEMs are going to a new repair stategy called lean diagnostics. Basically, a tech is given a wiring diagram and a description and operation of a given system. The tech must then figure out how to fix the concern. Why change? Because in the flat rate world time is money especially for warranty repairs. Right now a tech gets paid based on the time it takes to follow the pinpoint test steps. If there aren't a lot of steps, the payable time goes down hosing the tech and reduces warranty money the company pays.:wtf:
Anyway, enjoy your new tool and practice with it until you know it inside and out.
 
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737mechanic

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mojo_13 Your doing what every single mechanic on this board has done so don't think you should not have gotten that scanner. NONE of these guys on this forum started out as professional mechanics, they all started out tinkering with mechanical mechines just like you are doing so keep it up. These guys have learned a few things and now they look down on the diy mechanic who's only crime is wanting to learn stuff for himself and prevent from being ripped off from you guessed it the professional mechanic.

Keep up with your tinkering and learning and you will save yourself more than you cost yourself in the longrun.
 
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mojo_13

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737mechanic said:
mojo_13 Your doing what every single mechanic on this board has done so don't think you should not have gotten that scanner. NONE of these guys on this forum started out as professional mechanics, they all started out tinkering with mechanical mechines just like you are doing so keep it up. These guys have learned a few things and now they look down on the diy mechanic who's only crime is wanting to learn stuff for himself and prevent from being ripped off from you guessed it the professional mechanic.

Keep up with your tinkering and learning and you will save yourself more than you cost yourself in the longrun.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that I appreciate the encouragement, I know when it comes to something major (engine rebuild etc) I'll be taking it to a mechanic but I like to do as much as I can by myself. It saves money and is fun/satisfying for me.

I have been looking around at some books I could read up on and found this

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1563926121/?tag=atomicindus08-20

The reviews look pretty good and was just wondering if anyone had any experience with this book at all or if you thought it would be a worthwhile read. It looks like HF carries it also so I could use my 20% coupon :bounce:
 
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ImportTuner

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mojo_13 said:
Thanks Coach, I will be sure to do alot of reading to me sometimes the research is the most fun. I understand it won't tell me exactly whats wrong but its more help than I had before so I figure it can't be all bad.



Thanks for the advice and I will be doing a TON of reading to get things figured out a little better. Do you happen to have any sources to start reading up on this type of thing such as what the numbers are suppose to be in your story above or is that just from past experiences. Just looking for a nudge in the right direction.



I tried but the girlfriend wouldn't foot the bill:lol_hitti




I know that the actron does live data and can store it so that I can print it out etc. I figure I can post the data on a "mechanic/garage" forum and have some people point me in the right direction of things to try. The $70 I spent on the scanner is no comparrison to the money they spend but like everyone has said it will be a good tool to point me in the right direction.
Click to expand...

Hey mojo .. good all around scanner. I have the Actron 9145 and have been very happy with it. Most DIY'ers don't have the kind of money to spend for a fancy Snap On scanner.
 
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lipadj46

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mojo_13 said:
Wow I'm starting to think I shouldn't have even gotten this.
Click to expand...

Don't let the guys bust your balls. For the DIYr a scanner that reads live data is a great tool to have. Congrats on the new tool. I guess some people like to brag about their $12000 diagnostic scanners that they is debt up to their eyeballs to the truck man and put down those of us who get by with basic scanners that cost less than our vehicle. Have fun with your new tool and get used to using the live data stream. When I got my scanner (a land rover specific scanner that does ABS, SRS and programming) I drove around with it hooked up so I could play with it.
 
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GeorgiaHybrid

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lipadj46 said:
Don't let the guys bust your balls. For the DIYr a scanner that reads live data is a great tool to have. Congrats on the new tool. I guess some people like to brag about their $12000 diagnostic scanners that they is debt up to their eyeballs to the truck man and put down those of us who get by with basic scanners that cost less than our vehicle. Have fun with your new tool and get used to using the live data stream. When I got my scanner (a land rover specific scanner that does ABS, SRS and programming) I drove around with it hooked up so I could play with it.
Click to expand...

I have an Actron CP9180 that I keep at work for the folks that come up and ask "Can you tell me what the check engine light means?". I used it for a while along with a cheaper digital meter to check a lot of cars. They do work and work well but you still need to learn what the data is trying to tell you.

I eventually moved up to a Fluke multi-meter and then bought a Solus Pro that has been replaced now by a Modis. They all still work the same although the Modis does have a nice help area as well as quite a few features that the Actron scanner and cheap multi-meter never had.

They are also a LOT more expensive than then the tools I started with.... The bottom line? Get a manual or go online with something like AllData to get some good trouble shooting info and start learning. The money you save might be your own.....

If you get stuck and can't figure something out, you still have the "take it to a pro" option
 
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