mrholeshot
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The biggest feature you need to look for is a live data stream.
Does this mean I'm a mechanic now?
- Thread starter mojo_13
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The biggest feature you need to look for is a live data stream.
Ya I am going to have to figure out the live data thing then I will probably be playing with it alot, I wish I could have gotten a scanner that did ABS but the next model was alot more so I went with the 9180 figuring if I ever really needed to I could upgrade but I think this will keep me busy for a while.
I'm going to be doing all the reading I can. I have seen AllData.com but never really heard much about it. Is it a good source of information? I looked through the site but its hard to tell on the sample car.
mrholeshot
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I have had AllData (aka SomeData) and I switched over to Mitchell On Demand back in 93. AllData has tried several times to get me back and sent me several free one month trials over the years. I like Mitchell much better. The only thing better about AllData is they now have color wiring diagrams. It's a hit or miss on the color but they are easier to read. The information in Mitchell is better IMO. I pay about 150 a month for it. I was paid up for a good while when I closed my shop. When it expires I'm on my own. Ive come to depend on it so much I doubt I'll be able to put brake pads on without it. lol
Tarheelgarage
Well-known member
To gain an understanding of engine controls, I recommend you get a copy (3rd edition or newer) of ADVANCED ENGINE PERFORMANCE DIAGNOSIS by James D. Halderman.
Read this book cover to cover and this will help you understand what the datastream is telling you about various sensors and actuators, etc.
Check online fleabay or other used online book source.
This book is money well spent.
Do you feel that either would be better for the "beginner" mechanic. I know my way around a car but am not totally familiar with all equipment etc. Just making sure the Mitchell is not better for a full time mechanic but would confuse the hell out of me.
To gain an understanding of engine controls, I recommend you get a copy (3rd edition or newer) of ADVANCED ENGINE PERFORMANCE DIAGNOSIS by James D. Halderman.
Read this book cover to cover and this will help you understand what the datastream is telling you about various sensors and actuators, etc.
Check online fleabay or other used online book source.
This book is money well spent.
Thanks for the heads up I will look into that book, like I have said I will take any and all suggestions on material, books, websites to read up on. Learning what the live stream is telling me will be great!
GeorgiaHybrid
Well-known member
I use the AllData DIY site where you can buy a subscription to a single car for anywhere from 1 to 3 years. Once you have one or two bought, you can get a nice discount on additional cars. It is not as nice as Mitchell from what I hear but then again, it's not $150 a month either.....
It has always worked out well for me for everything that I have needed to find out on my cars. Everything from timing belts to sun visor removals to engine management systems and emission control systems were easy to access on line with a small laptop in the car.
It has always worked out well for me for everything that I have needed to find out on my cars. Everything from timing belts to sun visor removals to engine management systems and emission control systems were easy to access on line with a small laptop in the car.
Wow I didn't realize that Mitchell was that much. I looked into all data and I can get the 5 year subscription for both of our cars for $75 even if it isn't quite as thorough for the savings I can take it to a mechanic
mtkst19
Well-known member
man, im the exact opposite. i think mitchell ***** and all data is 100 times better. mitchell is difficult because they dont put the pictures inline with the text, and everything seems to be out of order in general. to mitchell's credit, they do have labor times and info on some 09/10 models that all data does not. if mitchell online was setup like their books, id have no issue. as their books are easy to read/follow. for me, wiring diagram in color or just black is not an issue. read a diagram the same none the less. just give me a key that lets me know color and im happy.
as for codes-- http://www.trouble-codes.com/ will help you out w/ what a code is. In addition, i know it is a vw/audi tool, but vag-com actually gives you a decent probable cause/solution to look for. http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Category:Fault_Codes the 1st number is vw/audi specific. second number will be the p-code, that is standardized across all makes/models. you will see some manufacture specific numbers dont have a p-code. thats why shops end up buying big dollar scan tools-- to know what those codes are. i dont think you will see p-codes listed untilpage 2 on the wiki site. still, a good source of info worth book marking.
as for codes-- http://www.trouble-codes.com/ will help you out w/ what a code is. In addition, i know it is a vw/audi tool, but vag-com actually gives you a decent probable cause/solution to look for. http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Category:Fault_Codes the 1st number is vw/audi specific. second number will be the p-code, that is standardized across all makes/models. you will see some manufacture specific numbers dont have a p-code. thats why shops end up buying big dollar scan tools-- to know what those codes are. i dont think you will see p-codes listed untilpage 2 on the wiki site. still, a good source of info worth book marking.
Tarheelgarage
Well-known member
Same here; I dumped Mitchells a few years ago; too unorganized and skimpy on operating/enabling conditions. I have alldata and find it gives a better overview of enabling conditions on various systems.
nato
Well-known member
If you want something that's relatively inexpensive that's capable of viewing ""SOME" live data views, I suggest Launch's CReaderV. From what I've read, for you average shadetree, it would be PLENTY. Live data doesn't help unless you understand what you're looking at.
I'm a tech and can tell you from experience, that our high dollar scan tools at my work (Tech2 and 2 OTC Genisys') sometimes aren't worth ****. Take this for instance: we get a Mercury Villager in from time to time. The Genisys can't recognize it to establish communication for what it is. You have to select it's brethren model, the nissan Quest and still, options are limited. Also, even with a smart Cable and sys. 3.0, our Genisys STILL REFUSES to communicate w/ most VW's. Even under the "Global OBD2" options...nada. We got an '01 Bettle TDI in yesterday w/ no forward, yet has reverse gears. Stopped right in the middle of the highway. Can't even scan it to check for a definite mechanical trans hard fault code
Tech2 is uselss unless you know your GM's or unless you always have access to the CORRECT, entire vin.
I almost bought a Launch creaderv just to have at home for my own personal use, but I opted for the Matco "QikScan". $100 and it does live data (no graphing...). So far, it's nice. It's hookup speed is impressive and depending on manufacter, I at least, can diagnose via my driveway. Freezeframe data is also imparitive at times. Just by viewing and understanding other sensor readings that were active at the previous dtc fault time can lead you to a fault fix/diagnosis.
Scanner's that give you a code only are useless IMO. autozone can do that for you. I guess if you know what you're looking at after you get a dtc, you can grab a flow chart if you can understand it. You may be able to fix it. But, that's what we certified folks are here for
ABS is worth it to upgrade to the next level of scan tool. The simple idea of possibly being able to graph a 'dropping out' wheel speed sensor could save you a nice chunk of cash. Sometimes you win and can shotgun a diagnosis, other times, you will HAVE to foot the shop bill.
For what you're doing, I highly suggest not destroying your brain with any ADVANCED engine performance studies...you will see if you undertake them, given what you say your degree of expertise is in the field.
Start out slow. There's plenty of steps-up in the automotive diagnostic world. Some types are good and inexpensive, others are expensive and useless
I'm a tech and can tell you from experience, that our high dollar scan tools at my work (Tech2 and 2 OTC Genisys') sometimes aren't worth ****. Take this for instance: we get a Mercury Villager in from time to time. The Genisys can't recognize it to establish communication for what it is. You have to select it's brethren model, the nissan Quest and still, options are limited. Also, even with a smart Cable and sys. 3.0, our Genisys STILL REFUSES to communicate w/ most VW's. Even under the "Global OBD2" options...nada. We got an '01 Bettle TDI in yesterday w/ no forward, yet has reverse gears. Stopped right in the middle of the highway. Can't even scan it to check for a definite mechanical trans hard fault code
Tech2 is uselss unless you know your GM's or unless you always have access to the CORRECT, entire vin.
I almost bought a Launch creaderv just to have at home for my own personal use, but I opted for the Matco "QikScan". $100 and it does live data (no graphing...). So far, it's nice. It's hookup speed is impressive and depending on manufacter, I at least, can diagnose via my driveway. Freezeframe data is also imparitive at times. Just by viewing and understanding other sensor readings that were active at the previous dtc fault time can lead you to a fault fix/diagnosis.
Scanner's that give you a code only are useless IMO. autozone can do that for you. I guess if you know what you're looking at after you get a dtc, you can grab a flow chart if you can understand it. You may be able to fix it. But, that's what we certified folks are here for
ABS is worth it to upgrade to the next level of scan tool. The simple idea of possibly being able to graph a 'dropping out' wheel speed sensor could save you a nice chunk of cash. Sometimes you win and can shotgun a diagnosis, other times, you will HAVE to foot the shop bill.
For what you're doing, I highly suggest not destroying your brain with any ADVANCED engine performance studies...you will see if you undertake them, given what you say your degree of expertise is in the field.
Start out slow. There's plenty of steps-up in the automotive diagnostic world. Some types are good and inexpensive, others are expensive and useless
So for AllData if I get a code will it show me things to look for that could possibly cause that code? Or is it just about how to tear things down? Thanks for all of the help on this, AllData is looking like a go for me.
Tarheelgarage
Well-known member
For DTCs, Alldata will list the steps to troubleshoot, usually involving a DVOM or other test equipment. Can get quite detailed; you will get a lump in your throat when you are at the end of diag and it says..."Replace PCM"= $$$$$$
Alldata covers all the vehicle systems: engine, ac, ABS, steering/suspension...etc.
jeepnut24
Well-known member
Thanks. Its a non-factory swap with all used sensors so I figure that will help diagnose problems more quickly.
jeepnut24
Well-known member
To gain an understanding of engine controls, I recommend you get a copy (3rd edition or newer) of ADVANCED ENGINE PERFORMANCE DIAGNOSIS by James D. Halderman.
Read this book cover to cover and this will help you understand what the datastream is telling you about various sensors and actuators, etc.
Check online fleabay or other used online book source.
This book is money well spent.
Is the 4th edition better??? The reviews show that it doesn't cover PCM, any books that do cover it?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0135036887/?tag=atomicindus08-20
Jeep I have been doing along of reading and it looks like the Service Manuals have what the values (when you do live data) are suppose to be so you can compare from there. But I am also interested in the difference between the 3rd and 4th edition.
Tarheelgarage
Well-known member
Computerized engine controls by Delmar Pulishers is another good book I used in tech school. It is updated every 2 years to keep up with changes.
It all depends on how much and how deep you want to go in driveability repairs. If you don't go deep enough with the book knowledge, you will be no better than Joe shade tree: Parts changer, down the street.
Automotive Electricity and Electronics (tech One) by Al Santini is another good book we used for the electrical side.
As you can tell, I am a firm believer is gaining a solid foundation with book knowledge and applying it in repairs. Sadly, this seems to be missing in a lot of folks these days.
Computerized engine controls by Delmar Pulishers is another good book I used in tech school. It is updated every 2 years to keep up with changes.
It all depends on how much and how deep you want to go in driveability repairs. If you don't go deep enough with the book knowledge, you will be no better than Joe shade tree: Parts changer, down the street.
Automotive Electricity and Electronics (tech One) by Al Santini is another good book we used for the electrical side.
As you can tell, I am a firm believer is gaining a solid foundation with book knowledge and applying it in repairs. Sadly, this seems to be missing in a lot of folks these days.
Thanks for the suggestions. I love the research part of it so I will be reading whatever I can to find out everything I can . I may not be able to understand it and then I can just ask questions. I think I'm gonna need a bookshelf now lol.
jethro29
Well-known member
yeah jay fifty,i'm right there with you,vantage pro,solus pro 10.2.verus,genisys and the old brick. not to mention the new bartec 400. but i think it's cool for a diy er to want to learn how to do some stuff. learn what live data is and should be.it is a wondeful thing,also learn what fuel trim is and what it means,those are key for the diy person.and also remember that a code is like a fire in a fifty story high rise it might tell you what floor the fire is on but you have to determine which room.the code is not always the problem,it is usually a symptom of the problem.
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jeepnut24
Well-known member
Computerized engine controls by Delmar Pulishers is another good book I used in tech school. It is updated every 2 years to keep up with changes.
It all depends on how much and how deep you want to go in driveability repairs. If you don't go deep enough with the book knowledge, you will be no better than Joe shade tree: Parts changer, down the street.
Automotive Electricity and Electronics (tech One) by Al Santini is another good book we used for the electrical side.
As you can tell, I am a firm believer is gaining a solid foundation with book knowledge and applying it in repairs. Sadly, this seems to be missing in a lot of folks these days.
Thanks for the suggestions. Im also a big believer in book knowledge along with experience. Ive earned a few pieces of paper now over the years, just not in Automotive work...
Gotta start somewhere though.