Franz©
Banned
Hey Tox lay the specsheet for 6013 and 7018 side by side and compare the numbers.
Most spatter is caused by improper technique with 6013.
Most spatter is caused by improper technique with 6013.
Does this weld look okay?
- Thread starter OctaneMotorsports
- Start date
Franz©;161156 said:
I've welded with 6010, 6011, 6013, 6022, 7014, 7018, and 308L (for the stainless jobs). While my job primarily calls for 7018, I have cheated in the past using 601x to fill bad gaps when fitters are on the job, and the inspectors aren't looking. While i find it (601x)easy to weld with, I feel that 7018 lays down a nicer bead, and is somewhat easier to control. I don't know JMHO, or because it's (7018) what I've used the most over the past 12 years it's what I'm more profficient with.
But for argument's sake, and for those who don't know, let's decipher the meaning of a SMAW electrode number Let's use E7018H4R as an example.
E- electrode
70xx- weld tensile strength in thousands of pounds. So 70= 70,000 psi
1- The "1" designates an all position electrode, "2" is for flat and horizontal positions only; while "3" indicates an electrode that can be used for flat, horizontal, vertical down and overhead.
18The last 2 digits taken together indicate the type of coating and the correct polarity or current to use.
18-iron powder low hydrogen-AC or DC+
H4The "H4" is the diffusible hydrogen designator, which indicates the maximum diffusible hydrogen level obtained with the product.
R"R" stands for the moisture resistant designator to indicate the electrode's ability to meet specific low moisture pickup limits under controlled humidification tests.
E6013
This all-position, AC electrode is used for welding clean, new sheet metal. Its soft arc has minimal spatter, moderate penetration and an easy-to-clean slag. Lincoln Fleetweld® 37 is most common of this type.
E7018
A low-hydrogen, usually DC, all-position electrode used when quality is an issue or for hard-to-weld metals. It has the capability of producing more uniform weld metal, which has better impact properties at temperatures below zero. The Lincoln products are typically Jetweld® LH-78 or our new Excalibur® 7018.
Information obtained from Lincoln Electric's website here: http://www.lincolnelectric.com/knowledge/articles/content/awsclassification.asp
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Britt
Member
Back in the 70's I went to VoTech for welding and also worked in a local shipyard in Florida and as I learned;
Actually the: E-6010/ E6024 / E-7018 E7024 / E8011 / E-9011 / E-10011 / E-12015
"E" is for "Electric Welding"
the second # "60-70-80-90-100-120 etc. is for tensile strength x1000
the third #
"1"= All positions
"2"= Horizontal & Flat
"3"= Flat only
the fourth # 0-9
Shows special characteristics of the rod like; polarity, rate of depostiton, penetration, even bead characteristic (convex-concave),etc.
In addition to this, there is also color coding by different manufactures.
I don't stick weld much any more, mainly just TIG and some MIG, but I have been at it for 30+ yrs.
Actually the: E-6010/ E6024 / E-7018 E7024 / E8011 / E-9011 / E-10011 / E-12015
"E" is for "Electric Welding"
the second # "60-70-80-90-100-120 etc. is for tensile strength x1000
the third #
"1"= All positions
"2"= Horizontal & Flat
"3"= Flat only
the fourth # 0-9
Shows special characteristics of the rod like; polarity, rate of depostiton, penetration, even bead characteristic (convex-concave),etc.
In addition to this, there is also color coding by different manufactures.
I don't stick weld much any more, mainly just TIG and some MIG, but I have been at it for 30+ yrs.
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Franz©
Banned
Tox, if you look at the old Murex book instead of Lincoln's book there are some interesting realitys. You sound like a pipe weldor from the statement about sloppy fitters.
6010 & 11 or 5P and 5P+ are both fast freeze, and excellent for filling in gaps. Neither are comparable to 6013 or 7018.
6013 & 7018 are capping rods in the pipe business put there for additional mechanicle strenght. The root pass itself should be sufficient to keep the liquid or gas inside contained.
The as welded strengths of 6013 and 7018 come up very close to each other, and 7018 falls below the 70,000# as welded. 7018 ia also a LoHy rod, and a pain in the *** rod unless oven stored.
I contend the majority of people in the US burning 7018 are doing so as a result of advertising, and not for any good reason. That includes "engineers" specing 7018, after all no "engineer" is going to risk deviating from what 1000 "engineers" before him have speced.
In Europe the capping rod speced for pipeline work is 6013. They don't seem to be having a lot of problems from it.
6010 & 11 or 5P and 5P+ are both fast freeze, and excellent for filling in gaps. Neither are comparable to 6013 or 7018.
6013 & 7018 are capping rods in the pipe business put there for additional mechanicle strenght. The root pass itself should be sufficient to keep the liquid or gas inside contained.
The as welded strengths of 6013 and 7018 come up very close to each other, and 7018 falls below the 70,000# as welded. 7018 ia also a LoHy rod, and a pain in the *** rod unless oven stored.
I contend the majority of people in the US burning 7018 are doing so as a result of advertising, and not for any good reason. That includes "engineers" specing 7018, after all no "engineer" is going to risk deviating from what 1000 "engineers" before him have speced.
In Europe the capping rod speced for pipeline work is 6013. They don't seem to be having a lot of problems from it.
Naw, bridge/structural Ironworker. Hence the overuse of 7018. The 60xx trick I learned from a pipefitter who worked with us.Franz©;161285 said:
Actually, while they say it should be oven stored, I was just welding with 3/32" 7018 wire ,today, that has been out of the can for about 3 years. No ovens, no problems. It's what I'm used to burning.Franz©;161285 said:
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Franz©
Banned
Oh doG a fugitive from a SubArc shop. No wonder you're easily confused.
Franz©
Banned
If you never ran a SubArc, be very very happy. Sub is making a comeback again, and there is a hell of a lot more being used today than there was back in the 80s.
As long as you ain't the poor buzzard with the broom & shovel it ain't a bad process.
CAT retired all the old guys from their cylinder plant because the new MBA was sure there was a better process than sub, and now their failure rate on cylinders is 50 times what it was back when them old farts subed them. They even went with 5 robot plasma welders to solve the problem cause the brilliant engineers & salesmen said it would. The plasmas got sold off as surplus, and they still can't make cylinders in Illinois.
Them MBA fellows have their finger on the pulse of the situation though.
As long as you ain't the poor buzzard with the broom & shovel it ain't a bad process.
CAT retired all the old guys from their cylinder plant because the new MBA was sure there was a better process than sub, and now their failure rate on cylinders is 50 times what it was back when them old farts subed them. They even went with 5 robot plasma welders to solve the problem cause the brilliant engineers & salesmen said it would. The plasmas got sold off as surplus, and they still can't make cylinders in Illinois.
Them MBA fellows have their finger on the pulse of the situation though.
jklingel
Well-known member
You are doing OK for a beginner, but I would caution your use of 6013. It is a lower-penetration "sheet metal" rod; its bead can look pretty good, but it does not, by design, penetrate real deep. If I may suggest, run 6011 (on AC) or 6010 (on DC) if you need penetration, (and you usually do). With practice, you will smoothen out the weld with these rods and in the meantime, IMO, get a better product. Just be careful to not leave "wagon tracks" with 6010/11 (unfilled valleys along the edges of the weld) by running along too quickly, and keep your arc as short as you can. Their arc can blow molten metal around pretty well and make a mell of a hess. The wagon tracks are evidence that it is penetrating. Compare the arc you get (visual and auditor) w/ 6010/11 vs 6013. Are you running DC +? Here is one link you can check out. Keep enterprising!
http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/weldrod.html
http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/weldrod.html
Franz©
Banned
JK, care to get specific with what you define as shallow penetration, and sheet metal?
While you're at it, kindly explain how you comingle fastfreeze rods into the same category as 6013?
While you're at it, kindly explain how you comingle fastfreeze rods into the same category as 6013?
jklingel
Well-known member
F: No, I can not provide a definition of penetration, as I do not do scientific research on electrodes. I just go by (1) experience, (2) what other welders say, and (3) what "the literature" says, like the link I provided that states "mild penetration". Here is a quote from PART OF Lincoln Electric's data on 6013: "Here’s a terrific all-position electrode for low amp welding on sheet metal..." By all means call them and ask for a definition; to me, it means "thin stuff that you don't want to burn holes in", and that is good enough for me. I encourage anyone interested to research thoroughly whatever they do, part of that being reading banter on internet forums. As far as "comingling" (however you spell that) I was only offering a caution about a particular electrode for a particular application, and did not intend to get into a thorough investigation of all aspects of all electrodes. That is a rather large topic. I hope this clarifies my interest in offering an opinion. Pls feel free to recommend whatever electrode you so desire; it's a great, free country, ain't it? Have a happy. j
Franz©
Banned
First, yo ought to learn what Sheet Metal is. 1/8 6013 in the hands of a weldor can deliver a full penetration weld on ¼" sheet.
6010 & 6011 are fast freeze electrodes primarily used for root pass on pipe work and in situations with crappy fitup.
They are all position, not all purpose, and both are miserable rods for a beginner to try learning with.
While I'm thinking of it,
""Just be careful to not leave "wagon tracks" with 6010/11 (unfilled valleys along the edges of the weld) by running along too quickly, and keep your arc as short as you can. Their arc can blow molten metal around pretty well and make a mell of a hess. The wagon tracks are evidence that it is penetrating""
BULLSHYT!
What you call wagon tracks are a sign of excessive current and an inexperienced operator. They are a guarandamnteed reject of any weld displaying them, and can easily be seen on Xray. Oh, just so you can run tell the so called Welders you learned from, the problem isn't called Wagon Tracks in the welding industry.
6010 & 6011 are fast freeze electrodes primarily used for root pass on pipe work and in situations with crappy fitup.
They are all position, not all purpose, and both are miserable rods for a beginner to try learning with.
While I'm thinking of it,
""Just be careful to not leave "wagon tracks" with 6010/11 (unfilled valleys along the edges of the weld) by running along too quickly, and keep your arc as short as you can. Their arc can blow molten metal around pretty well and make a mell of a hess. The wagon tracks are evidence that it is penetrating""
BULLSHYT!
What you call wagon tracks are a sign of excessive current and an inexperienced operator. They are a guarandamnteed reject of any weld displaying them, and can easily be seen on Xray. Oh, just so you can run tell the so called Welders you learned from, the problem isn't called Wagon Tracks in the welding industry.
jklingel
Well-known member
Boy, you don't mince words, do you? That's OK; I'm a big boy. Nice to have access to an expert; I will pass this info on. Take care. john