To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Does this welding class look good?

Jacobson

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Messages
1,482
Local college

30 hours for Arc Welding 1.
Tack and flat and vertical position. Rods. Oxy cutting.

30 hours for Arc Welding 2.
Pipe welding. Overheard and vertical. Oxy cutting.

20 hours for MIG/TIG Welding.
****, tee, corner.

They must be taken in that order. Each is $500.

Does this seem worthwhile?
I've always wondered about basic welding.
It would be nice to know a little more.

What would I buy for basic light duty home auto work?
(Weld on a new rocker, or replace a support panel, etc)
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Bigblue&Goldie

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 12, 2009
Messages
10,672
Location
AZ
I wouldn't bother. No reason to spend $1,000 and 2 semesters learning how to stick weld if all you want to do is mig weld. There are plenty of good instructional videos online that will teach you what you will learn in that class. Take that $1,000 and put it towards a good quality welder (Miller, Lincoln, Esab, etc).
 
OP
J

Jacobson

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Messages
1,482
So, basic auto body stuff is MIG/TIG welding, but not Arc?
Like cutting out part of a rusty panel and fusing a new sheet on?
Or like removing spot welds (tack?) and reinstalling some support brace?
Or maybe welding an exhaust pipe...

Can you point me to some common models that are a good value for the casual DIY'er that can handle these situations ? In other words, not SnapOn, but GearWrench, C-man, and maybe even HF. I might use it once every few years.
 

sz0k30

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
883
Location
SE Michigan
I took a community college welding class @ 10 years ago. My school didn't require any prerequisites for the "Basic Class" which included: gas, arc, MIG & TIG all in one semester. I loved it. Got to try all the 4 types of welding. If you are just a home welder/hobbyist all I would want is the 3rd class. The 1st 2 Arc classes will be pretty useless. Very unlikely you will be doing any overhead pipe welding at home.

If all you are going to do is play around and do a little sheet metal and thin steel a MIG welder is what most guys probably have & use.

Look for another school and save yourself a bunch of money.
 

Bigblue&Goldie

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 12, 2009
Messages
10,672
Location
AZ
You will likely only being doing thin sheet metal, which will primarily consist of a series of tack and spot welds. To cut out old stuff you will probably use an air saw or a grinder. As far as a welder goes, you get what you pay for. DON'T BUY SOMETHING THAT ISN'T SUPPORTED BY YOUR LOCAL WELDING SHOP. Brand isn't as crucial, but stick with one of the major names. A 110v is all you will need. I prefer having a mig with a gas bottle vs. a Flux core which doesn't use shielding gas. Miller's website has some good charts showing the various models and their intended uses and capacities. Don't worry about tig at this point.
 

Brad J.

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 6, 2015
Messages
70
Pretty much all body shops use mig.

I'm a restorer so I use mig very little and a lot of tig. Tig is slower and more of a workable weld to planish and such.

Arc would be pretty useless unless your welding 3/8 or thicker plate. More of an industrial type application.

Biggest thing they want you to learn is pushing a molten puddle with any of the three types of welding. Save your money for a good Mig welder, welding book, youtube and you have the basics to learn yourself. Not a fan of the 140 range 110 welders for much of anything other than sheetmetal. Look for a 220 range machine.
 

trackwelder

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 22, 2005
Messages
2,608
Location
n.y
I wouldn't bother. No reason to spend $1,000 and 2 semesters learning how to stick weld if all you want to do is mig weld. There are plenty of good instructional videos online that will teach you what you will learn in that class. Take that $1,000 and put it towards a good quality welder (Miller, Lincoln, Esab, etc).

No offense but no way in hell is a video going to replace actually time in a booth with an instructor.

If you really want to learn to weld take the class, it's money well spent.
 

Bigblue&Goldie

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 12, 2009
Messages
10,672
Location
AZ
No offense but no way in hell is a video going to replace actually time in a booth with an instructor.

If you really want to learn to weld take the class, it's money well spent.

I've taken those classes, it was about 5 people who gave a **** and 20 kids who were there to **** around. Hands on time was very minimal. Honestly, the most valuable thing I learned in those classes was how to weld with a torch; no better way to learn how to push a puddle. For $1,500 I would find a local fab guy and pay him by the hour to teach you what you want to learn. $1,000 worth of stick welding knowledge will provide you no benefit when it comes to automotive work.
 

trackwelder

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 22, 2005
Messages
2,608
Location
n.y
I've taken those classes, it was about 5 people who gave a **** and 20 kids who were there to **** around. Hands on time was very minimal. Honestly, the most valuable thing I learned in those classes was how to weld with a torch; no better way to learn how to push a puddle. For $1,500 I would find a local fab guy and pay him by the hour to teach you what you want to learn. $1,000 worth of stick welding knowledge will provide you no benefit when it comes to automotive work.

So because you attended a **** show class that means they are all like that?

Arc welding skills will definitely be valuable in some auto repairs and general repairs. Get good training from the start it is the right way to go.
 

Bigblue&Goldie

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 12, 2009
Messages
10,672
Location
AZ
So because you attended a **** show class that means they are all like that?

Arc welding skills will definitely be valuable in some auto repairs and general repairs. Get good training from the start it is the right way to go.

Not just one, every welding/fab shop class I ever took at 13th grade (community college) was a **** show. Let's get serious, what benefit is 60hrs of arc welding going to provide the OP who wants to fiddle with some sheet metal once or twice a year?

When is arc welding the preferred method in automotive work? I literally haven't touched my arc leads since I stopped doing structural work. At home or working on cars I pull out the mig or tig.
 

trentonmakes

Banned
Joined
Aug 29, 2014
Messages
447
I'm with the crowd... Use the money on a good welder
Practice pushing a puddle on scrap!
Youtube is filled with tips, but your learn by doing!
For body work, you'll want a might or tig. Nothing wrong with a stick welder but not for such thin metal.
Practice practice practice
You'll get it[emoji106]

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk
 

WhiffySpark

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
6,252
Not just one, every welding/fab shop class I ever took at 13th grade (community college) was a **** show. Let's get serious, what benefit is 60hrs of arc welding going to provide the OP who wants to fiddle with some sheet metal once or twice a year?

When is arc welding the preferred method in automotive work? I literally haven't touched my arc leads since I stopped doing structural work. At home or working on cars I pull out the mig or tig.

I went to school for it too. Best decision I ever made. Sound like you attended a **** show

I ended up learning tig my first semester. My instructor was invaluable
 

pozidriv

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
343
Location
Belgium
That's crazy expensive, I took a semester lessons (40 hours) for €45! Granted, state sponsored and reduction tariff, but still.
My class was kinda ****** as well, the instructor didn't really explain anything and most of the guys there were just standing around talking all the time. It was cheap though, so I took acetylene and TIG, welding nonstop. I agree the most important thing is just practice, get your hands on a decent machine and some scrap.

edit: I normally don't notice the tags, but who is coralnut and why is he a *****?:headscrat
 
Last edited:

Showkey

"MEMBER EMERITUS"
Joined
Aug 9, 2014
Messages
8,638
Location
Wausau WI
In my former life.......I was an industrial arts instructor in high school.

We use to offer adult night classes in welding, small engine repair, auto repair, auto body and woodworking. The classes were packed with waiting lists. Not sure they still offer classes in the high school but the local vocational school likely does. ( Depending on your local they may fallen under the budget cuts? Thats where many high school vocational classes meant their end) .

Any way we taught a whole lot of adults to weld and fix their John Deere lawn tractor. Nobody was complaining and behavior by young or old was NOT an issue. The young people did not come back to night school to act out or screw around. If they did they would not have lasted long.

As for the OP course ......seems a bit intense, too long and expensive. I am guessing there are better, cheaper and more focused programs. The program mentioned sounds like it a vocational program to take a young person from ground zero with no skills and train them to work in industry as a production welder. Like a private vocational program $$$$$ like the auto, motorcycle or truck mechanic programs $$$$$
 
Last edited:

trackwelder

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 22, 2005
Messages
2,608
Location
n.y
Not just one, every welding/fab shop class I ever took at 13th grade (community college) was a **** show. Let's get serious, what benefit is 60hrs of arc welding going to provide the OP who wants to fiddle with some sheet metal once or twice a year?

When is arc welding the preferred method in automotive work? I literally haven't touched my arc leads since I stopped doing structural work. At home or working on cars I pull out the mig or tig.

Sounds like your college of choice sucked, doesn't mean they all do. I never said it was a preferred method only that you can use it, but I agree wire is the way to go.
 

LumpyMusic

Well-known member
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
492
Location
Phoenix Arizona USA
I would not spend $1500 and three semesters if what I wanted to do was MIG weld sheet metal. I sure might if I was entering the trade.

I've taught HS and college in several states over the last half a century. I've NEVER seen a class, vocational, avocational, teens or adults, that wasn't a majority of fuckups that either didn't want to be there, had to be there or thought that they already knew all the material and wanted to make sure everyone knew that. Academic institutions, esp today, aren't in any kind of position to remove the fuckups. They need the tuition. So, just like it's been since the profession of teaching began, EVERY student has to sink to the level of the weakest link.

If each class is, let's say, 2 hrs long...divide that in about half to account for check in, clean up, roll call, lecture, safety reminders etc. Then divide the remaing hour by the number of students in the class. THAT's how much "Teacher to Student" time you'll get. So I call ******** on those wavers who claim "Nothing beats actual time in a booth with an instructor" if they're suggesting this kind of class has anything approaching that.

Go watch Jody and Kevin. Make some puddles and beads. Cut them in half, try and break them. You're not building a space shuttle or the Alaska pipeline.


Sgt Lumpy
 

90zcar

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 8, 2013
Messages
3,254
Do you plan on doing any welding for any future jobs?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

WhiffySpark

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
6,252
I would not spend $1500 and three semesters if what I wanted to do was MIG weld sheet metal. I sure might if I was entering the trade.

I've taught HS and college in several states over the last half a century. I've NEVER seen a class, vocational, avocational, teens or adults, that wasn't a majority of fuckups that either didn't want to be there, had to be there or thought that they already knew all the material and wanted to make sure everyone knew that. Academic institutions, esp today, aren't in any kind of position to remove the fuckups. They need the tuition. So, just like it's been since the profession of teaching began, EVERY student has to sink to the level of the weakest link.

If each class is, let's say, 2 hrs long...divide that in about half to account for check in, clean up, roll call, lecture, safety reminders etc. Then divide the remaing hour by the number of students in the class. THAT's how much "Teacher to Student" time you'll get. So I call ******** on those wavers who claim "Nothing beats actual time in a booth with an instructor" if they're suggesting this kind of class has anything approaching that.

Go watch Jody and Kevin. Make some puddles and beads. Cut them in half, try and break them. You're not building a space shuttle or the Alaska pipeline.


Sgt Lumpy

Our class was 3 hours with 10 people limit. No issues like you said there is. I guess every area is different :confused:

First week was classroom the. Everyday we were welding as soon as we came In
 

ZRX61

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 15, 2006
Messages
28,716
Location
Solar Blight Valley, SoCal
No way in hell I'd recommend those 3 classes for your situation. Someone who knows their *** from their elbow could have you sorted out with the basics on a MIG in an hour. After that it's practice/videos/books.

On a related note:
Miller just redesigned their 211 & made it even smaller & weighs 35lb. Sounds about idea for you once you get yourself in the zone if you want something shiny new.. Until then look for a used Hobart 185/187 or a Miller 190.

prices here:
http://store.cyberweld.com/migwelders.html
 
Last edited:

trackwelder

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 22, 2005
Messages
2,608
Location
n.y
I would not spend $1500 and three semesters if what I wanted to do was MIG weld sheet metal. I sure might if I was entering the trade.

I've taught HS and college in several states over the last half a century. I've NEVER seen a class, vocational, avocational, teens or adults, that wasn't a majority of fuckups that either didn't want to be there, had to be there or thought that they already knew all the material and wanted to make sure everyone knew that. Academic institutions, esp today, aren't in any kind of position to remove the fuckups. They need the tuition. So, just like it's been since the profession of teaching began, EVERY student has to sink to the level of the weakest link.

If each class is, let's say, 2 hrs long...divide that in about half to account for check in, clean up, roll call, lecture, safety reminders etc. Then divide the remaing hour by the number of students in the class. THAT's how much "Teacher to Student" time you'll get. So I call ******** on those wavers who claim "Nothing beats actual time in a booth with an instructor" if they're suggesting this kind of class has anything approaching that.

Go watch Jody and Kevin. Make some puddles and beads. Cut them in half, try and break them. You're not building a space shuttle or the Alaska pipeline.


Sgt Lumpy

Did you teach welding any welding classes during your time teaching? Do you know how to weld? I have seen first hand how difficult it is to retrain people who think they know how to weld without any training. Does this guy need to attend a welding training program to weld a few rockers on, absolutely not? Would he benefit greatly from completing a course, absolutely!!

You as a teacher should know education is just as valuable as tools and equipment.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

ZRX61

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 15, 2006
Messages
28,716
Location
Solar Blight Valley, SoCal
Also: what's your location?

If you have the $1500 burning a hole in your pocket:

Hobart 190 or 210 (dual voltage on the 210), Miller 190 or 211 (dual voltage on the 211).

Any of those 4 leaves you $$$ for the other stuff you need: bottle of C25 & safety gear etc.
 

ZRX61

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 15, 2006
Messages
28,716
Location
Solar Blight Valley, SoCal
Did you teach welding any welding classes during your time teaching? Do you know how to weld? I have seen first hand how difficult it is to retrain people who think they know how to weld without any training. Does this guy need to attend a welding training program to weld a few rockers on, absolutely not? Would he benefit greatly from completing a course, absolutely!!

You as a teacher should know education is just as valuable as tools and equipment.
The issue is what he wants to do & what those 3 classes actually teach. It makes no sense to take those particular classes for his needs.
 

WhiffySpark

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
6,252
The issue is what he wants to do & what those 3 classes actually teach. It makes no sense to take those particular classes for his needs.

I took it and don't even own a welder. Education is valuable. :thumbup:
 

ZRX61

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 15, 2006
Messages
28,716
Location
Solar Blight Valley, SoCal
I took it and don't even own a welder. Education is valuable. :thumbup:

I know it is, I'm always taking classes at the local college that interest me. Now I have the *counselors* mad at me because I don't want to take the *foo foo* classes that bore me to death to get the wallpaper. What really boils their piss is that if I took the foo foo classes (history, philosophy, some ******** art class etc) I'd end up with another 5 or so Associate degrees.
 
OP
J

Jacobson

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Messages
1,482
What is "pushing a puddle" mean?

It sounds like ARC is not for me, as I am interested in hobbyist welding for auto sheet metal, realistically. This is not for a job.

I will read more about MIG/TIG. I agree that all learning is good, but this is not high priority, and sitting through 50 hours of $1000 ARC classes just to see MIG seems inefficient. Driving to and from the class is also a time drain, on a fixed weekly schedule. Just doesn't seem worth it, based on the practical negativity in the responses.

I liked the idea of simply paying someone for a few hours of time to show me what I want to learn about welding cars. I will keep my eye open for a used MIG/TIG welder, as well.
 
Last edited:

Ign

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2006
Messages
12,769
Location
Butte Peak ND
I'm astonished at people saying stick is a waste of time. It's the foundation of all of it, which is why they start w it. If you're excellent w stick you can't help but be good w other processes.

That said, around here $1500 would be high. Find a small school, avoid Wyo and UTI. And who cares if the other kids **** around?? Go to learn and you will.

I had to take 101 as part of my machining degree, I spent a solid hour each morning in a booth w rods in my hand. Learned a lot, much of the arc out of position I'm afraid I've forgotten. That's my fault for not staying in practice.
 

Ign

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2006
Messages
12,769
Location
Butte Peak ND
What is "pushing a puddle" mean?

It sounds like ARC is not for me, as I am interested in hobbyist welding for auto sheet metal, realistically. This is not for a job.

I will read more about MIG/TIG. I agree that all learning is good, but this is not high priority, and sitting through 50 hours of $1000 ARC classes just to see MIG seems inefficient.

I liked the idea of simply paying someone for a few hours of time to show me what I want to learn about welding cars.

Again, if you can push a puddle w arc, you can push a puddle w anything. It is not a waste of time. You WILL see how it all transfers and related if you're even remotely mechanically inclined. Learn to walk before you run.
 

justanengineer

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 5, 2011
Messages
7,722
Location
Motor City
OP - JMO but most of this thread is terrible advice from non-weldors and wannabes. Ignore them. Trackwelder's correct, a few decent classes are worth their weight in gold.

Unlike many of those commenting here, both myself and SWMBO have taken quite a few college level trade classes in the last decade and can assure you a decent program doesn't tolerate fuckups, shitheads, or those who aren't there to learn like the universities and high schools today do. Unlike the university crowd which contains many self-entitled 18 year olds who don't know what they want in life other than EASY, the community college/trade school crowd is usually a bit older, quite a bit more mature, and full of folks who are paying THEIR OWN way in life, so consequently are a bit more mature. Many start working as a machinist/weldor/other tradesman shortly before or after starting school, THEIR bill is directly linked to passing the class, and THEIR paycheck is directly linked to skills learned.

As for the actual classes, again, ignore the folks above. JMO, but until you get some time on multiple processes using properly set up machines, you wont really know whats best for you and your projects, that's the beauty of taking a couple classes. Contrary to what others claim, nobody was ever a decent welder who was entirely self-taught nor did they become good watching youtube/online videos. One of my teachers said it best - welding is like shooting, the best NEVER welded before they were taught how bc DIY'ing usually leads to bad habits difficult to break (also why women make some of the best weldors and shooters). In a decent class you'll learn the proper industry standard ways of testing welds (other than the hairy eyeball and hammer) using the proper equipment and how to make STRONG welds, not the pretty welds everybody online worries too much about. You'll also learn a ton about metallurgy and joint design as a consequence. The program will also be setup to make it easy to learn. For example, you might never use stick welding again but you will learn a ton of basic technique and knowledge that is directly applicable to other processes, and are easiest taught on that process. Personally, I took separate classes on 1. gas welding, 2. SMAW (stick), 3. TIG, 4. MIG, and 5. inspection. I rarely gas weld, usually use stick for heavy repairs/fab and TIG for light work, and even rarer yet is me using the MIG bc I prefer very high quality welds and find other processes easier. Honestly, I really could never have picked up half of what I know today nor broken the bad habits developed on my own years prior to taking the classes, had I not had a teacher standing next to me in the booth watching me weld.

I don't really have any feelings one way or another about the cost mentioned. Some states have a ridiculously high cost of college while others don't, and a good program is targeted at creating professionals, not teaching hobbyists "just enough" for their auto/garage hobbies. Personally, I would look into the schools accreditation first and foremost bc I'd rather overpay for a good school than attend a free but crappy one....do they offer American Welding Society (AWS), state Dept of Transportation (yes, that DOT), or other certs? The better schools offer certs, often your tuition includes the cost of the cert test. Are there stories in the local paper or on google about their grads doing great things, or how outstanding their teachers are? JME regarding class hours, but the classes I took in NY and those taught by the good schools (we also have terrible ones) here in IN advertise ** hours like the universities do, but the majority of your time is unlisted lab time. Most of my welding classes were 2 hours of "class" time that was mostly in the lab, and another 2-4 of lab time. One summer I took two, "2 hour" welding classes that involved a minimum of 8 hours welding back-back per day, and often stretched to 10-12.
 

trentonmakes

Banned
Joined
Aug 29, 2014
Messages
447
By that logic he should learn brazing,its a dying art after all.

Replacing sheet metal is tacking, your not actually running a bead, well because you'll warp the metal.

If his only interest in welding is patching panels on cars, classes and arc welding and brazing, is a waste, only because it does not benefit the end user in any way he wants.

Granted, if he was interested in welding then there Is a benefit and he should learn them all.

For what he wants, his best bet is to buy a might or tig and start messing around with scrap. Plenty of info on the Web and youtube that should get him up n running in no time!



Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk
 

pozidriv

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
343
Location
Belgium
My god.
The guy wants to weld a few panels for his car as a hobby and you're telling him to take hundreds of dollars worth of 10 hour a day welding classes? In the meantime telling him to ignore all other advice 'from wannabes'???

I could start a pompous and long-winded rant about why your advice ***** balls, but this thread already has one. I think the OP's smart enough to make up his own mind and decide which wannabe makes the most sense here.
 

zkling

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 23, 2007
Messages
16,939
Bluntly, op I think you need a good teacher with a lot of patience be it a school based class or someone that has been around the block a few times. Based on the questions you ask I don't think you really have the gumption to learn on your own. "welding class" can differ greatly, the best ones are those that prepare an individual for a career in the industry. Others are nothing more than a, here's a machine, don't burn the place down.
 

WhoWhatNow

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
1,885
Location
Collegeville, PA
I just weld as a hobby but I would recommend taking take at least the first Arc class. As a few others have mentioned there is much more to welding than just tacking things together. In a decent class you will learn not just how to run a bead but what it takes to get a solid joint. That includes things like proper fit up, clean metal, proper angles, speed, etc. You also have access to an expert who can give you instant feedback. Your instructor can look at you welds and tell you you need to slow down or speed up right away. That is something you don't get from online videos. Also don't discount the fact that the class will provide equipment and consumables. Coupons and welding rod can get expensive.

I was in the same place you were a few years ago. I wanted to learn how to weld so I could replace some rusty panels on a project. I took an Arc welding class at a not so local CC and it was well worth it. I'm not a great welder by any means but nothing I have build has fallen apart. That included a nice welding table, a 3 point weight bracket for my tractor that carries 240lbs and a ripper bar, and a set of dollies that my Bridgeport milling machine sits on. They aren't beautiful but they are solid. Learning the basics is important and good habits will make all of your welding jobs easier regardless of what process you use.

After I took the Arc class I took a TIG class an am glad I did that as well. I have a Lincoln AC225 a Lincoln MIG and an Eastwood Tig. The classes gave me the basic knowledge and the conference to take on any project that has come up. Next up will be front end loader for my garden tractor. Only downside is I haven't actually got around to doing the panel work on the car yet. Maybe this fall....

Btw my classes were about $450 each.
 

trentonmakes

Banned
Joined
Aug 29, 2014
Messages
447
Lol!
And when you get to the car you'll learn fast that it IS tacking pieces together!


Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk
 

Zeke

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
17,176
Location
Long Beach CA, the sewer by the sea.
I'd say if you have plenty of money and time, do it. If you have to stretch either, pass. I took the equivalent of class #1 and #3 and then an advanced #3 (the way you put the classes). If you have oxy/acet bottles you would benefit from Class #1 simply because there is a lot to that side of welding and it never hurts to know how to strike an arc and weld a nice bead.

I suppose there are many self taught weldors but when I finally went to school I learned all what I was doing wrong. No reason whatsoever to start out doing things wrong. Sure, a lot of it is very basic but if you progress and you have a good instructor, he/she can move you along ahead of those that are just not going to make it.

Jody et al are good references but seat time is what gets you in the trade.
 

trentonmakes

Banned
Joined
Aug 29, 2014
Messages
447
He asked about welding and classes lol
Not metal shaping!

I'd he's as clueless with bodywork as he is with welding, then yes I agree, a body shop class would be huge benefit.

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom