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Done diamond grinding ... should I etch also ??

BIGSHOT

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Hi

I'm doing a Epoxy Coat floor and finished all the grinding part ...

Do I also need to etch the floor ?

Thanks !
 
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dcs Inc

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No..... The spiral grind is good enough profile. Anyway, you really want to keep this as dry as you can. I use denatured alcohol as my water. I use a micro fiber mop head and apply denatured to it. I then wipe up all the fine dust. It may take several fiber heads to get it good and clean.

This way you are not introducing moisture to the slab that 'can" cause you troubles later. The denatured alcohol gets the fine particles off the floor and helps full any more surface moisture out of the slab. gene ec-indy
 

Grumpy365

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No..... The spiral grind is good enough profile. Anyway, you really want to keep this as dry as you can. I use denatured alcohol as my water. I use a micro fiber mop head and apply denatured to it. I then wipe up all the fine dust. It may take several fiber heads to get it good and clean.

This way you are not introducing moisture to the slab that 'can" cause you troubles later. The denatured alcohol gets the fine particles off the floor and helps full any more surface moisture out of the slab. gene ec-indy

I like the idea of not introducing moisture. I always think people don't take enough care or concern about moisture. I am believer in the anhydrous calcium chloride test, and I am always surprised it is RARELY if ever mentioned when people are talking about doing floors.

HOWEVER, in using alcohol, how do you handle the concern with flammability. I would be so concerned with the place going BOOM, I don't know if I could do it.
 

Edger

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You either acid etch or diamond grind to open the top surface. Do not acid etch after diamond grinding because diamond grinding is better.
 

dcs Inc

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Good catch on the flammable concerns. It is heavier than air so it's not like xylene gathering and increasing it's % on the ceiling till static electricity sparks it off. I've used denatured alcohol on thousands of square feet of concrete. I pour just a little onto the micro fiber head to get it damp, then wipe it on the floor to catch dust. A 1/2 gallon can will last me a couple thousand sq. ft. Don't pour out gallons of it onto the floor.....

You are right about testing the moisture levels in concrete. I've had a couple go belly up on my because of poor/no testing. I've stepped up to rapid RH (relative humidity testings) for more accurate (and quicker) results. The anhydrous kits I sell take 60-72 hours for results. That takes time when you're next project is on the other side town. I like drilling a hole and finding the results right away.

The poor man's plastic test, taking a sheet of plastic, say 2'x2' and taping it on all sides to the floor, waiting a minimum 24-36 hours and then checking to for sweating or darkened concrete. Floor has to be clean. This will tell you if you need to have a test kit to tell you exactly how much moisture is transmitting. Normally over 3 pounds pressure will need a vapor barrier primer epoxy applied. These vapor barrier epoxies have different ratings on how much they can hold back. We have one that's suppose to hold back 12 lbs. I tell my students to use it for up to 6 lbs. per thousand sq. ft.

Here are a couple of sites to check out on testing.

http://www.vaporgauge.com/

http://www.wagnermeters.com/concretemoisture.php

gene ec-Indy
 

dcs Inc

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The problem with acid etching is you need to neutralize it and wash, wash, wash off the residue. You are adding a lot of moisture to that slab that may bite you later when applying the epoxy. Never power wash a slab. You are driving water deep into the concrete.
Moisture causes major out gassing. gene ec-Indy
 
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Edger

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For many years I pressure washed concrete floors the day before epoxy coating with 6,000 psi via a rotary jet that looked like a lawnmower and never had an adhesion problem.

I spent time with a wet vac to remove any free water from joints etc. afterward and the next day it was always white and clean and dry. If there was oil in the floor which was often on the jobs I specialized doing, I would spread a strong water-based alkaline cleaner over the floor, brooming it in and using a ride on scrubber for larger floors, vacuum it up, then rinse and vacuum, then rinse and vacuum once more, for larger floors we used a fire hose for rinsing. Next day it was always white and dry.

I found that you have to use 3,000 psi plus to remove the acid etch white residue and the jets have to be close to the floor.

I found that 6,000 psi did not penetrate more than one sixteenth of an inch and that moisture in concrete was from the bottom up and slowly wicked to the surface over a long time, you cannot force water in quickly which is why pavements dry quickly after rain.

If you wash you have to clean out the joints thoroughly or else you will have wet mud sitting there and the concrete along the joints will remain wet for a few days.

Diamond grinding is dry and better, but I always washed, broom agitated and wet vacuumed after diamond grinding to remove the dust. You could then eat off the floor no problem it was so clean.

These were not garages, they were industrial plants with forktrucks whizzing in and out 24/7 with no adhesion problems. Just two coats of 100% solids epoxy.
 
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BIGSHOT

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Thanks guys ! A lot of information. I had a coat of floring paint before but with the diamond grind the ciment looks new !

I just need to fix a couple of little cracks and I'm good to go for the application of the Epoxy coat. Will keep you posted.
 

dcs Inc

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Well I guess Edger we have to disagree on this particular topic. I have washed many a floor myself with water but wait a minimum 48 hours before applying epoxies. I also run a dehumidifier in the area to lower the humidity levels so the air would not be completely saturated to be able pull more moisture out of the concrete. Even with these precautions, I've had moisture problems when applying. An opened slab is thirsty and will absorb a large amount of water. Even if the surface looks dry, there's moisture just under the surface. We don't normally use a primer as our epoxy is self priming but will use water based epoxy primer if water has been introduced to the slab. This tends to lock down the concrete offering less problematic top coat applications. gene ec-Indy
 

Edger

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Well I guess Edger we have to disagree on this particular topic. I have washed many a floor myself with water but wait a minimum 48 hours before applying epoxies. I also run a dehumidifier in the area to lower the humidity levels so the air would not be completely saturated to be able pull more moisture out of the concrete. Even with these precautions, I've had moisture problems when applying. An opened slab is thirsty and will absorb a large amount of water. Even if the surface looks dry, there's moisture just under the surface. We don't normally use a primer as our epoxy is self priming but will use water based epoxy primer if water has been introduced to the slab. This tends to lock down the concrete offering less problematic top coat applications. gene ec-Indy

Hi DCS,

Perhaps it was the epoxy I used. Sika always assured me that their epoxy would bond to damp concrete and it did, although I never coated until the surface was dry.
 

dcs Inc

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If it was a water based product it would adhere without any adverse effects. I'll look up Sika's product line to see just what we are talking about. Was this product a high build epoxy? Most all water borne epoxies are low build. There's so many product lines out there I don't even try to keep up. gene ec-Indy
 

Edger

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If it was a water based product it would adhere without any adverse effects. I'll look up Sika's product line to see just what we are talking about. Was this product a high build epoxy? Most all water borne epoxies are low build. There's so many product lines out there I don't even try to keep up. gene ec-Indy

Before Sika I used Epirez, here is a data sheet. http://www.epirez.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=77&Itemid=169. I cannot find the Sika product I used to use, it was several years ago now and both were solvent based, not water based.
 
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