Don't Know Jack...

[jeepcoma]

Hi all, long time reader on this site but first time posting. My Crapsman "Professional" 4-ton jack (P/N
00950167000) gave up the ghost after 5 hard years of use. I was disappointed to find that it's not really repairable, and have since read many many threads and reviews about how bad these jacks are these days. So I'd rather not spend ~$100 for a new hydraulic unit only to know it's a ticking time bomb, when I could put that money towards a better unit. After all, quality doesn't cost, it pays.

So with that in mind, after poring through 100s of posts (thanks HiBall for all the knowledge) I've narrowed my selection down but am not really sure on the pros/cons of these models compared to each other, which I can get for the same price ($450) so that's not a consideration.

AC Hydraulics DK20 2-ton
Hein Werner HW93652 3-ton "SUV"

My two main vehicles are a low 95 Camaro and a 91 Jeep Comanche pickup. I really didn't have any trouble with the Crapsman prior to the seals blowing, worked great for both vehicles and also on an older Mustang and Javelin and random other cars. The only potential trouble spot is with the Camaro, the chassis of the jack will just contact the bumper and muffler when rolling in from behind to jack from the differential. Not a big deal as I can drive up the ramps first (which I usually put underneath the wheels anyway for extra safety while I set up the jack stands, regardless of the vehicle), but as I said, a consideration at least.

So assuming I could get them both for about the same price, what would you pick? HW seems to have had a bit of a rocky past through the 80s and 90s, should I be concerned about them going belly up and not being able to get seals or rebuild-able parts in 20 years? Tonnage ratings seem to be mostly marketing gobbledegook, but is one "stronger" than the other (and therefore I would hope more durable at the loads I'll be using most of the time)? The DK though doesn't seem to have many US distributors, should I worry about local support? It definitely seems to win on size though. Is it rebuildable/repairable?

Any other "intangibles" that don't make their way to the spec sheets? Things I should know about? Anyone that's handled both side-by-side? I guess my two main things are, which is the highest quality (most time between rebuilds), and which will last a lifetime (through availability of rebuilding when needed)?

 

[CRTDI]

I like both the AC and HW jacks. I don't think you can go wrong with either one. However, my recommendation is a Milwaukee. I have a model 40, 4 ton unit. Milwaukee has an old proven design that's solid and reliable. Milwaukee jacks are built, and have always been built in the U.S.

A model 20 should be within your range. You will need to call Milwaukee Hydraulics directly to get the best deal. Also, you won't have to press 1 for English, and hopefully you'll speak to a real nice and knowledgeable lady by the name of Caroline.

Link with some specs:

http://www.jackxchange.com/products/20.cfm

Milwaukee Hydraulics link:

http://www.milwaukeejack.com/

Good luck with whatever you get!! Please post up some pics when you get your new jack.

 

[Perryk]

x2 on Milwaukee. I stopped down at a local hydraulic repair shop before I bought mine and they had just finished "restoring" a Milwaukee which was apparently manufactured in the late 50s. They did a clean up, seals and it worked like new.

Lots of guy cant believe I paid $500 for a floorjack then proceed to tell me about their $10 000 tool box...

You'll be buying your last floor jack if you do.

 

[6-Speed]

I don't think the Milwaukee jacks are low profile types. I am in the same boat with 2 of my 3 Harbor Freight jacks having failed after 4 years and the third about to fail. I'm looking for a good low profile jack now.

 

[jeepcoma]

I'll take another look at Milwaukee. I originally dismissed them due to price, but yeah the model 20 is in my range. And honestly, if it's worth it for the near $1k price tag on the model 40, I'll save up for it. I'm through with buying junk. Would the 40 be total overkill for me? What can you really lift with the 20, and at what point would the 40 make more sense? I'm still young and I use my tools a lot, I would hope to get at least 50 years out of it and with that in mind $1000 doesn't seem so bad. Their site lists a service center/distributor near me, would be nice if they have some items in stock to see...

 

[slidehammer]

I don't think the Milwaukee jacks are low profile types. I am in the same boat with 2 of my 3 Harbor Freight jacks having failed after 4 years and the third about to fail. I'm looking for a good low profile jack now.

The Milwaukee Model 20 is low enough to lift a C6 Corvette from the regular jack points or from the subframes, for whatever that's worth.

 

[6-Speed]

The Milwaukee Model 20 is low enough to lift a C6 Corvette from the regular jack points or from the subframes, for whatever that's worth.

Good to know thanks ... looks like a fine floor jack.

 

[jeepcoma]

I got in touch with Milwaukee today and their lead times are 3-4 weeks, for both the model 20 and 40! D'oh! Guess it will give me plenty of time to save up, and also decide which model I really need. The 20 definitely suits my needs now for both price, size, and lifting capabilites, but with the long term in mind the model 40 wins out.

The 20 was priced around what I've seen for the HW 3-ton or AC-2 ton (w/o quick lift), so it's competitive. The 40 is a ways out of the price range of the other models, but it's twice the jack of the 20 at less than twice the price (comparable to the Norco 5-ton quick lift 71500E for reference).

Has anyone here bought a smaller unit, and wish they went bigger? Or vice versa, bought a heavier unit than needed and regretted it? In either scenario I can see having to buy another jack as backup, even a light duty HF unit could do in a pinch or just to get enough clearance.

Is it worth the cost and the wait for either of these models? Or should I just go with the HW 3-ton and call it a day?

 

[mooman]

My Craftsman 3 ton jack just gave up the ghost a few weeks ago and I replaced it with the NAPA professional 3 ton jack that was on sale for $260. Seems to be a nice jack.
I'm just a DIY guy, so I'm guessing this one should last a long time.

 

[graffix000]

I also went through the BS with the crapsman jack a few years ago. Went ahead and bought something else when it would cost nearly the same to fix the jack as it was when I bought it.

I went with the american forge and foundry Model 200T - 2 Ton Speed Jack
"Low Rider" Low Profile Floor Jack

Jack has been great for the past few years and slides right under my lowered M5 and did the same for my m3. no need to jack up the car to hit the center jack point anymore.

I would check on the AC jack with Pelican to see if it is actually available. There was a long period of time that they weren't being brought in to the US due to the poor conversion rate. I initially wanted the same jack you showed with the quick lift feature and it wasn't available. I even contacted AC and they were willing to send it to canada, and then i would have had to have it shipped from there to the US. Wasn't worth the hassle or shipping $$$.


http://asedeals.com/automotive_floor_jacks.html

 

[jeepcoma]

Pelican showed 5 in stock of the AC model DK20, and a nearly $150 price difference for the DK20Q with quick lift lever. No thanks, my arms can pump a few extra times! I did not actually call them though to verify what they've got. The DK20Q lists 26 in stock!

One thing I'm concerned about with AC, is availability of parts. I read a few threads that had the same frustrations you mentioned about even getting a jack in the first place, so I'm not sure what support would be like. I don't know enough about jack hydraulics to know if parts are pretty universally available for things like seals, as long as the unit itself is designed to be repairable. Basically, I don't know enough to know if support will be there if and when I need it down the road for AC, though I'm pretty confident it will be for Milwaukee.

 

[graffix000]

You'll be able to get parts, but who knows how long they will take to arrive if they need to be ordered direct from AC. I am pretty sure their home location is in Denmark. ASEdeals that I linked earlier used to be a big distributor of AC. It's a shame as they are some of the best jacks in the industry.

 

[twincam00]

I would also highly recommend a Milwaukee Hydraulics jack if you dont need a low profile

CRTDI is correct that ordering though Milwaukee gets you the best deal, as of mid january the prices (minus freight) are:

Model 20- $460
Model 40- $787.50

It looks like you can get a 10% discount by referencing their website so that puts the prices at:

Model 20- $414
Model 40- $708.75

 

[twincam00]

I'm saving up for the model 20 right now, hopefully they will let me pick one up in milwaukee so I can save the shipping charges

 

[HIRISC]

My vote: Norco 71232.

I have two of them.. very high quality.

I used to own Crapsman jacks.. absolutely turned to **** about the time K-mart came into the picture. Sears is DOA.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I bought this NAPA jack and stands combo pack (you can get them separate) when it was on sale several years ago. Has worked well and I am impressed with it, considering it is China made.

They put these combo packs on a real good sale about once a year, usually for way less than the jack alone costs, and you get two stands in the process.

NAPA 3½ ton jack and 4 ton stands

Charles

 

[jeepcoma]

I would also highly recommend a Milwaukee Hydraulics jack if you dont need a low profile

CRTDI is correct that ordering though Milwaukee gets you the best deal, as of mid january the prices (minus freight) are:

Model 20- $460
Model 40- $787.50

It looks like you can get a 10% discount by referencing their website so that puts the prices at:

Model 20- $414
Model 40- $708.75

I talked to Caroline and she quoted my the first set of prices. I then asked about the 10% discount and she said those prices were with it already applied.

 

[PeterT]

I always try and buy the USA made products, but these $500 jacks are killing me. I know my life is in the jacks hands when they are being used, but still - $500/ea is too much for me.

I ran across, on another thread on GJB, this beauty

Powerbuilt® 3 Ton Heavy Duty Low Profile Floor Jack, purchased from toolsmithdirect.com:

They are 129.99 a piece and built like a brick **** house. These jacks must weight 100+ lbs and they are built very nice. Low profile, long cushioned handle, nothing cheap about them.

Shipping is expensive, flat rate of $85, so I bought 4 of em.. Now I can rotate my own tires easily enough.

Oh and the jack stands are nice as well for $34.99/set.
Powerbuilt® 6 Ton Jack Stands

 

[mtnwalton]

agreed on the quality of craftsman stuff; but isn't this a lifetiime warranty item? just wondering

 

[Jeeper]

I too had the craftsman ton go bad. I went with a Arcan 3.25 from Cosco. The dilemma is either buy a nice rebuildable jack or plan on replacing a cheap one every few years. I went the latter path.

I am still half tempted to take apart the craftsman to see if I can fix it.

 

[tonym]

after reading all the posts and doing a bit of searching myself...I like the model40..... cant find anything bad on them....a good friend of mine buys them **** 80.00 floor jacks and they last maybe 6-8 months...he wont ever spend the money to get a good 1 so im going to get donations from all the ppls who he helps out and suprise his *** with a milwaukee 40 service jack....hope that price above is good still or very close

 

[CRTDI]

There are two design features I really like on the Milwaukee units.

1) No universal jont or gear to actuate the the hydraulic unit control valve (release needle).

These just have a simple threaded rod (release screw) in the handle that makes contact with a release lever on the hydrailic unit. You'll never have to take the jack out of service for having to replace a worn out gear or a broken U-joint.


2) Easy to store and transport.

The handle assy. is held in place by a quickly removeable set screw (lock button). I actually store the jack below my work bench with the handle removed. With the handle removed, the jack is now small enough to be placed in the trunk of a vehicle for transport.

http://www.milwaukeejack.com/model40.pdf

 

[jwith68]

If you are really looking for a new jack, you've got some good information in this thread. However, if you have any interest in saving your current jack, even as a backup, you might want check out this thread:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51105

 

[tonym]

emailed them for a quote they sent the 787.50 back and a 2 month backorder if you order today

this is todays price.... Milwaukee Model 40 with our 10% Internet Discount is $787.50

shipping is another 170 to N Virginia

 

[jeepcoma]

emailed them for a quote they sent the 787.50 back and a 2 month backorder if you order today

this is todays price.... Milwaukee Model 40 with our 10% Internet Discount is $787.50

shipping is another 170 to N Virginia

That's the same info they quoted me on Monday, only the backorder was stated at 3-4 weeks! Are you going to order one for your friend? I think that's a terrific idea, I wish I had friends like that! After doing some more reading, depending on what kind of work he does, you may find the model 20 to be a better choice. Unless he's working on big dually trucks or buses, or camper vans, the 20 seems to be more than enough for the regular car, van, SUV, or pickup truck. Would love to hear some feedback from model 20 owners, was it the right choice or do you wish you had gone for the 40?

 

[twincam00]

Unless you have a really heavy vehicle the model 20 should suffice, quite a bit cheaper and 70 pounds lighter. The model 40 does lift 4" higher tho

Heres a neat diagram of the milwaukee design compared to the old-school super long jacks

 

[tonym]

That's the same info they quoted me on Monday, only the backorder was stated at 3-4 weeks! Are you going to order one for your friend? I think that's a terrific idea, I wish I had friends like that! After doing some more reading, depending on what kind of work he does, you may find the model 20 to be a better choice. Unless he's working on big dually trucks or buses, or camper vans, the 20 seems to be more than enough for the regular car, van, SUV, or pickup truck. Would love to hear some feedback from model 20 owners, was it the right choice or do you wish you had gone for the 40?

he works on 1-85 ton tow trucks ......mostly f450 550 650

 

[albaran]

Bought my Hein Werner ton and a half about 40 years ago. After all this time of hard use and a pretty bad garage fire, it started leaking. I found a rebuild kit on the internet and now it works like new again. Yes the rebuild kit was the same price as one of the cheap harbor freight jacks, but it was still the principal of the thing.

 

[graffix000]

agreed on the quality of craftsman stuff; but isn't this a lifetiime warranty item? just wondering

They don't warranty the craftsman jacks. Even more, they won't sell you individual parts for them either. They make you buy parts that rebuild the whole thing and are close to the purchase price of another craftsman jack.

 

[I_know_Nothing]

Having the model 20 and 40 (both new) for almost two years and recently selling them, I found that they were not for me for two reasons: the short pump stroke degree and not well suited for a body work environment. Handle has to be fairly low before pump action begins. I encountered multiple times not having enough clearance between two cars, a wall
or anything prohibiting enough space to lower the handle to get lift.

If you work on 4x4s and transfer cases or transmissions and do not have a dedicated ****** jack, the control of raising and lowering to the ideal height while under the 4x4 (yes with quality jack stand) is more difficult, even with a lot of practice.

While picking up my order of supplies, there were two body shops that brought in their milwaukee 40 for service. They did not look that old. I was informed by one of the employees that due to the nature of the design of the floating pivot ram, and how the fluid circulates it is easy to get a build up of particulates. With no u-cups or wipers, just o-rings it is more prone to failure in these types of environments. I mentioned my experiences and he pretty much completed my sentences and recommended the HW 3 ton, with instructions on how to make a shorter handle for tight spots. The first time I used the HW 3 ton to replace a clutch, it was so easy without the handle to raise and also adjust by turning the u-joint release valve to open or close with my fingers.

At the 1:20 mark you can see where the lift begins and stops. Handle is almost parallel to the ground before lift occurred. Was not necessary to raise handle as high as he did.

 

[jeepcoma]

Just got a call at work that my shipment arrived, so I went and got it (sorry for the crappy cell phone pics but that's all I've got with me). I ended up snapping the Milwaukee model 40.

Can't wait to get home tonight and unpack!

 

[jeepcoma]

Unpacked today after work, please enjoy the pics.


"Where you goin? NO where!"




Built to last I hope.


Some grease in the handle assembly.






The saddle is massive.


As soon as I opened the box these two bugs landed on it and started making out. Who knew made in USA jacks had that effect?


The guts.




Casters seem nice. Not sure if that's a geaseable spot, will have to check the manual. The front wheels are for sure though (see the saddle pic).


The handle. Already some grease inside.



Test lift!


Drum roll please. Here we go, maiden voyage!


Look ma, no hands!


First of many battle scars.


Quality vs Craftsman wreckage. The silver jack in the middle is rated at 3 tons and the others at 4. I'll trust the Milwaukee to actually lift 4.




First impressions? It's quality you can see and feel throughout. Despite weighting more than the old 4-ton, it feels like less weight. Why? The handle is so solid and sturdy it just moves the jack without flexing, and the T-handle aids so much with maneuverability I never would have believed it without trying it. The wheels and casters are just better; smoother and stronger. Jacking up was a piece of cake, and letting it out was smooth as butter. There was no "jumping" or "grittiness" that I was used to from every jack I've ever used before, just silky smooth release.

The entry price was steep, but now that I've had a chance to see and use it, I would buy it again if I had to. And really, I wish I had bought it long ago. It's really that nice.

Note to others deciding between the Model 20 (or comparable) vs the Model 40. I ended up choosing the 40 for the main reason that I felt I could do more with it. The 20 would be sufficient for my needs today for sure, but I'm sure I'll end up with a big heavy truck for towing horses and such in the future. So, the 40 will have more potential future applications. The main drawback to the 40 is the size, but then again the 20 is not really a low-profile jack, so neither fits that category. What I figured I would give up on the high end with the 20, I would not regain with the low end. So, if I need two good jacks, I'd end up with the 20 and a low-profile or the 40 and a low-profile, so I figure I'm better covered all-around with the 40 for now and if I need a low-profile later on in life so be it, I won't regret having the 40. Plus, I just wanted it. So there.

 

[tonym]

That is 1 good looking jack...thank you for all the pictures ....I started to get donations for my buddys...he is going to **** when he see's this beast...

 

[Perryk]

You wont regret spending the money. Buy once and forget about it.

The best part is when someone asks what you paid for it and then they blink 2x when you tell them cause they just saw the same one at HF for $125.00 LOL!

 

[CRTDI]

Believe me....the more you use it, the more you will like it. Congrats on your new purchase

 

[y2knole]

Arcan 3 Ton from Costco.

I bought one a couple months ago and its fantastic.

and only $100.

 

[tonym]

Placed my order for the model 40 today The lead time on our Model 40 is at late June early July... 2 months :O

 

[CRTDI]

Placed my order for the model 40 today The lead time on our Model 40 is at late June early July... 2 months :O

Hmmm...business must be picking up for Milwaukee Hydraulics..

 

[digdug18]

Looks like a quality jack, but for that price I can buy a 4 of the 4 ton heavy duty HF jacks, so if they last 4 years each....16 years. I mean yeah I could pass the Milwaukee jack down to my grandkids, but its a steep initial investment. I could see if I was wrenching everyday, but for me it's just not worth it. Think about it another way, it's 1/4 the price of a 4 post lift.

Andrew

 

[jeepcoma]

Looks like a quality jack, but for that price I can buy a 4 of the 4 ton heavy duty HF jacks, so if they last 4 years each....16 years. I mean yeah I could pass the Milwaukee jack down to my grandkids, but its a steep initial investment. I could see if I was wrenching everyday, but for me it's just not worth it. Think about it another way, it's 1/4 the price of a 4 post lift.

Andrew

You could but... after using the Model 40 for about a month and comparing it side by side with my Crapsman "4 ton", and looking at the HF jacks whenever I visit the store, I have to say that they are in no way comparable as equivalent models. Call it inflation of load ratings, conservative ratings from Milwaukee, or just good old fashion marketing gobbledygook, but there is NO WAY the box store "4-tons" are up to the task the way the Model 40 is. Sure my Craftsman might be able to lift 4 tons... once. I don't think I would trust it much either lifting that much weight, after comparing the construction to the M40.

So then, a more realistic comparison to the box store 4-tons is the Model 20. "Only" rated at 2 tons, it loses out on the marketing war, but I believe this is the best jack for regular car and pickup truck duty. The safety valving on the M20 may prevent you from lifting something you shouldn't, but I'd trust that if the model 20 doesn't want to lift it, it's not something I'd want to be lifting with a box store cheapo unit either. The price is much easier to swallow too. If you only use your jack twice a year to rotate tires or something like that, and can get 10 years out of a $100 unit, that probably fits your needs best. For any frequent home mechanic that puts it to regular use, the economy of a premium unit makes much more sense.

There's more to it too than just figuring out "ok I can buy 3 of these jacks and I'll have broken even in 10 years compared to this other 1 jack". Even if I can buy 3 cheaper jacks over 30 years vs 1 expensive jack that lasts 30 years, I'd rather have the 1 jack because it's just so much nicer to use, it makes the job easier, and I really enjoy using quality tools, and I feel pride in having saved up and bought something that's not made to be thrown in the dumpster when it needs fixing. But call me old fashioned. A trend I've noticed when stepping up from "regular" or consumer grade stuff to really premium items is that I never really realized what I was missing out on, and then in retrospect wish I had skipped the cheaper stuff from the start! I know a lot of times I've bought junk and said "I wish I'd spend more from the start", but I don't think I've ever bought something nice and said "you know, this really works too well, I wish I bought something of lesser quality".