Doorbell wired to basement lights issue

[carlosh]

Not necessarily garage related, but you all are a great source of good information.

My son just bought his first house and I was over trying to help install a nest doorbell.

Well....found out when you turn on the basement lights it turns off the doorbell transformer. Also, even when the light switch is off the bulbs flicker. When you leave the lights turned off, the doorbell works as advertised, but the lights flicker.

I'm 100 percent this wiring is not to code as there is no light box that everything is wired to.

Yes, we had a house inspector look things over, but it all looked ok as long as lights were turned off in basement. He also has a home warranty that might work this issue but if I can fix I would rather do that.

Any help will be appreciated

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[driftpin]

No circuit box? Those wires need to be in a sheet-metal box!

Seeing things like that would prompt me to have-to pull off every cover on a wall/ceiling, to see what other abominations there are. You should do this immediately, as there is significant possibility of fires in that crappy wiring job, and I am referring to the entire house. .

 

[Kevin Essiambre]

Do you have a volt meter?

Something looks off here... the doorbell transformer appears to be wired to the black and the red.

Test the voltage on the red wire to the white wire.
Then test the voltage on the black wire to the white wire.

If white to black has 120 volts, you should be good to proceed with this:
Move the wire that goes to the red wire from the transformer to the white wire, and it should work normally. Test the output voltage to verify it still works.

The proceed to take everything apart and install a box.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

 

[carlosh]

No circuit box? Those wires need to be in a sheet-metal box!

Seeing things like that would prompt me to have-to pull off every cover on a wall/ceiling, to see what other abominations there are. You should do this immediately, as there is significant possibility of fires in that crappy wiring job, and I am referring to the entire house. .

Yes sir, that's why I allude it's not to code. Looking at other light fixtures all look to be proper.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[carlosh]

Do you have a volt meter?

Something looks off here... the doorbell transformer appears to be wired to the black and the red.

Test the voltage on the red wire to the white wire.
Then test the voltage on the black wire to the white wire.

If white to black has 120 volts, you should be good to proceed with this:
Move the wire that goes to the red wire from the transformer to the white wire, and it should work normally. Test the output voltage to verify it still works.

The proceed to take everything apart and install a box.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

Perfect sir! Thanks! I did not bring my multimeter this trip but will next time out. Thanks!

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[Kevin Essiambre]

Perfect sir! Thanks! I did not bring my multimeter this trip but will next time out. Thanks!

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

I should mention, do this test with the lights off, as if they are on, the red wire will probably have power.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

 

[carlosh]

I should mention, do this test with the lights off, as if they are on, the red wire will probably have power.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

Good to go, thank you!

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[Lassen Forge]

The flickering bulb when off sounds like it's backfeeding current from somewhere into the neutral. I think your son has some wiring issues to figure out... Worst case is it may involve some fairly extensive rewiring.

First thing, run a separate lead from your box circuit to the transformer. You can (if code allows) run it off a hot lead at a J box, but not on a switched hot. Get it off the lighting circuit.

And BTW - just from what I'm looking at, do NOT assume your color codes are anywhere near what they should be. One thing I found in our former home was white wires as hots, Greens as neutrals, Reds as Hots... in other words, someone who had no business being in there was in there.

Then start chasing wiring, to find out (a) where the backfeed is coming from, and (b) where all the other backwards and potentially dangerous wiring issues are in the house. This may take more than one weekend, and may involve replaceing components... We had reversed hots, bypassed GFI's, crosslinked neutrals, Staples through romex, we even had a daisy chain feed for lights in our home, using an earth ground as neutral. UGLY doesn't quite cover how bad it was...

I'd get your kid a couple books on home wiring... and an Ugly's reference (which is like my electrical work bible). Serious, wiring ISN'T hard, but get it wrong, and you set yourself up for either a house fire or an electrocution hazard. And something is WAY wrong in this wiring...

 

[Kevin Essiambre]

The flickering bulb when off sounds like it's backfeeding current from somewhere into the neutral. I think your son has some wiring issues to figure out... Worst case is it may involve some fairly extensive rewiring.

First thing, run a separate lead from your box circuit to the transformer. You can (if code allows) run it off a hot lead at a J box, but not on a switched hot. Get it off the lighting circuit.

Then start chasing wiring, to find out (a) where the backfeed is coming from, and (b) where all the other backwards and potentially dangerous wiring issues are in the house. This may take more than one weekend, and may involve replaceing components... We had reversed hots, bypassed GFI's, crosslinked neutrals, Staples through romex, we even had a daisy chain feed for lights in our home, using an earth ground as neutral. UGLY doesn't quite cover how bad it was...

I'd get your kid a couple books on home wiring... and an Ugly's reference (which is like my electrical work bible). Serious, wiring ISN'T hard, but get it wrong, and you set yourself up for either a house fire or an electrocution hazard. And something is wrong in this wiring...

I think the flickering is the doorbell transformer being wired from black to red, creating a series circuit with the lights. There is definitely something weird going on here though.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

 

[carlosh]

I really appreciate the help you all!

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[Kevin Essiambre]

I really appreciate the help you all!

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

As Lassen said, do not assume there is no power on the wires. There could be (probably is) something wired backwards here, and there can be power on the white or even on the ground if something is really wrong.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Wow thats some hack job.

No box, transformer wired incorrectly, etc

 

[carlosh]

Thanks for all the information and here is the current status:
1. Red wires from 120v transformer are now hooked to black and white.
2. Red wire in romex is capped off.
3. We are thinking the red wire was somehow spliced and broke connection on the smoke detectors. All other detectors except the one near this run are in series and go off as one when tested. This one does not.

The future plan is:
1. Get a proper ceiling box and install.
2. Investigate where the romex with red wire goes to.
3. Investigate why there is a black and white wire attached to the switch.

After all the info and help from here and a couple of buddies the doorbell and lights are working properly.

Thanks again.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[SGKent]

if there are two exits to the basement look for a light switch near the other exit. That may explain the weird wiring but not the lack of a box. Were it me I would chase that wiring back to where it comes from in case there are hidden splices in it.

 

[ard]

if there are two exits to the basement look for a light switch near the other exit. That may explain the weird wiring but not the lack of a box. Were it me I would chase that wiring back to where it comes from in case there are hidden splices in it.

Agree. Look for another switch to those lights.

Or another box that some yahoo hacked up and 'converted'. It looks like there is a 3 wire cable that is often used as a runner to 3way switch.

Hardest part will be getting the wiring figured out. Once you do that, I am sure people can set you straight on a proper box, how to mount the transformer, etc....

 

[carlosh]

Agree. Look for another switch to those lights.



Or another box that some yahoo hacked up and 'converted'. It looks like there is a 3 wire cable that is often used as a runner to 3way switch.



Hardest part will be getting the wiring figured out. Once you do that, I am sure people can set you straight on a proper box, how to mount the transformer, etc....

Good to go and thanks. My plan is to chase that one and find out for sure where it is going. I just love figuring out others messes. Ha

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[ard]

Yeah. Years ago on a house that we rehabbed, someone had been there before. I plugged a light in, and started flipping breakers to find which circuit to kill. Got done with every 1x 15 or 20A and the light stayed on.

Hmm. did the same with all 2 poles. Still one.

Hmm. Flipped every single pole OFF. It turned off. Then turned each on one at a time. TWO different breakers would turn the light on. wired in a loop back to the panel

Good times.

Have fun

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Wow

 

[Kevin Essiambre]

Yeah. Years ago on a house that we rehabbed, someone had been there before. I plugged a light in, and started flipping breakers to find which circuit to kill. Got done with every 1x 15 or 20A and the light stayed on.

Hmm. did the same with all 2 poles. Still one.

Hmm. Flipped every single pole OFF. It turned off. Then turned each on one at a time. TWO different breakers would turn the light on. wired in a loop back to the panel

Good times.

Have fun

I've seen that before. Someone wired a plug with 2 different circuits, and didn't break the tab. The breakers were on the same bus in the panel. It was essentially a 30 amp circuit.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

 

[MFolks]

My question; How did the house pass inspection? By who(m)?

 

[carlosh]

My question; How did the house pass inspection? By who(m)?

They were clear that they did not look into walls or take apart fixtures. So, I'm guessing they have run into that before

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk