Double-Bubble

[tcianci]

It's about midnight and I finally got to replacing the rotted brake tubing on my kids car. I had a post a few months back about my first (unintentional) brake flush when I was replacing a rusted line at the rear of the car and started to bleed the brakes without the benefit of tightening all the fittings! So I dumped quite a bit of fluid on the driveway. Anyway... tonight I thought I had a plan to utilize the old ends of the original tubing (3/16, or for you commies, 4.7 mm) and splice in some fresh 3/16 tubing using a double flare tool and some double flare unions.

Theoretically, it works but it's not slick and I don't (well didn't) have the ability to make a real bubble flare. So I decided to poke around the interweb for a tool. I happened across a Utube video of how a guy used his double flare tool kinda backwards (die reversed) and used the double flare accessory to create a bubble. I tried it but was not impressed. Having nothing to lose I re-machined the double flare accessory on the lathe so that the internal chamfer was 45 degrees and gave it a try. Voila! I was banging out 45 degree bubble flares like it was a kids toy. At some point I need to invest in a new flare tool but using mine backwards (non-chamfered side of the die to press against) and the modified accessory, I was making bubbles with a nice 45 degree face and a good sharp shoulder for the nut to bear on. The proof will be when I bleed the sucker., we'll see if it leaks.

The first pic is a factory bubble, the next one is my home made bubble

 

[Danglerb]

I don't really like messing with anything that might compromise my brakes. Last I checked NAPA etc would do flares cheap.

 

[HICKS]

I don't really like messing with anything that might compromise my brakes. Last I checked NAPA etc would do flares cheap.

+1 Just buy new lines, why risk it?

 

[bradleykd]

^^ Pussys... lol

Thats good work man. as long as it doesnt leak, you're good. Looks like it should be fine. Brakes are just hydraulic lines, its not that hard to hold pressure... I've made brake lines many many times.

 

[tcianci]

Usually I don't call ***** but, if you think it through, there's no risk. It either leaks or it don't and you'll know long before the car hits the road. I have made miles of brake lines before myself, just a different type of fitting this time, that's all.

 

[packofqtips]

excuse to buy this!

hydraulic flaring tool!

 

[tcianci]

Yeah I hear ya! But it's not in the budget right now. Thankfully even though I have made plenty of brake lines over the years and they have been double flare type, it is a pretty infrequent project so I make do. But buying tools beats spending money on dentists, dance lessons and tuition anyday!

 

[Zeke]

I buy what I can and if I need to cut one down, I cut it down. I'm still here after all these years.

 

[tcianci]

I just finished another line, The old tubing wasn't even strong enough to unclip from the plastic mounts on the frame without making it start to weep!!!! Once I used it for a form to fashion the new bends, the stuff just snapped in half in my hands! I thank God for watching over my kid while she was driving this thing and I would have never known it if I hadn't taken the belly pan off to remove the AC compressor!

 

[Hank McMauser]

I still dont understand why with all of the safety regulations being put on newly mfg'd vehicles why they(feds) haven't mandated S.S. brake lines on new cars, it'd do a heck of alot more good than some of the other **** they force on new car buyers.

 

[dieselmike]

nice flare, and NICE FISH!!!

 

[wafrederick]

If it is a long line,buy the brake line by the roll which comes in 25 ft and do the flaring after installing the fittings.Advantage is less connections with less leaks looking cleaner.I seen one line lately,3 differant length lines in it and it looked ugly.Someone else installed a compression fitting in the other line too.Some lines are better off buying new from the dealer.Some GMs and Chryslers have a flex joint in them for a reason.

 

[tcianci]

The two 6mm lines from the master cylinder to the ABS pump have flex sections in them. They are no longer available according to the dealer. Im going to make them up with a good coil in them for flex and vibration reasons although the lines run from the MC to the ABS which are both body mounted so there's not much flex between them. I'm sure there were additional reasons for those type of flex sections in the line but what's a guy to do ?

 

[Jagmandave]

I'll bet those were for vibration isolation between the ABS unit and the master cyl/pedal. You could always use a short pre-made rubber brake hose, like those that go to the calipers.

In Europe, a lot of classic car builders use copper for brake lines - I'm always surprised when I see it.....

 

[Outlawmws]

If it is a long line,buy the brake line by the roll which comes in 25 ft and do the flaring after installing the fittings.Advantage is less connections with less leaks looking cleaner.I seen one line lately,3 different length lines in it and it looked ugly.Someone else installed a compression fitting in the other line too.Some lines are better off buying new from the dealer.Some GMs and Chryslers have a flex joint in them for a reason.

Whenever I have a situation like that, I take the liner and wrap it sound something (as a form) about three times and that allows any flex needed usually.

 

[luvit]

nice flare, there tcianci.
i did my first brake lines from end-to-end this summer.
i used nickel copper alloy lines from autozone.
i'll never go back to steel.

 

[RM209]

Interesting thread. Hadn't had to replace corroded brake lines since I was working on Brit cars from the 60's. However, recently while doing maintenance on my old Buick Century, I realized the last 3 feet on the rear brake line is corroded and needs to be replaced. since I'm not skilled at doing my own flares, I'll probably buy a long piece at NAPA that is flared on one-end and see if they can flare the other end after I measure the length.


If you live in the East, you'll be seeing more of this corrosion; magnesium chloride is increasingly used as an anti-icer, and it's extremely corrosive.

RM209

 

[tcianci]

nice flare, there tcianci.
i did my first brake lines from end-to-end this summer.
i used nickel copper alloy lines from autozone.
i'll never go back to steel.

The nickel copper ones are the way to go. I used the coated steel ones here though. The car is 16 years old... If it took the first lines 16 years to **** out, I'll be happy with half that out of this set. When I built my 40 Ford, I used steel too, I would have used the copper nickel stuff if I had been aware of it. Maybe they didn't even have it 13 years ago, I don't know. The good thing is that the '40 never sees snow anyway.

 

[tcianci]

Finished all the plumbing last night, I had a buddy come over to help me bleed the brakes. It took quite a bit of purging but we got a nice pedal out of it and there doesn't seem to be any leaking flares. So I'm claiming victory and going home proud on this one. In exchange for his services as my pedal pumper, he presented me with a leaking cat from a Ford Ranger. One end of the cat has a cracked weld where it connected to the pipe and the other end was leaking from under the heat shield. I took the whiz wheel to the heat shield and uncovered 2 holes rotted through the converter. I hate playing around with stuff like this because it's usually beyond it's prime. But this ain't the first time I have cobbled together some pretty ratty exhaust parts for him. So, I fabbed up a patch piece while he watched. Tomorrow I'll sandblast the thing and with a mix of MIG and luck, maybe it will work.

 

[luvit]

The nickel copper ones are the way to go. I used the coated steel ones here though. The car is 16 years old... If it took the first lines 16 years to **** out, I'll be happy with half that out of this set. When I built my 40 Ford, I used steel too, I would have used the copper nickel stuff if I had been aware of it. Maybe they didn't even have it 13 years ago, I don't know. The good thing is that the '40 never sees snow anyway.

you have good logic, there.. and some people like the stock effect.
the nickel copper costs twice the price, but flexing it is a breeze.
i can't believe how difficult it is to shape a steel line for some tight zig-zag areas.
.

 

[vssjim]

The Master Cool flaring tool is the deal and nickel copper brake lines work great and realy are the deal on 1/4 which is hard to bend in tight places

 

[mark40sw]

Tooltopia has very good selection / prices on SUR&R brand cunifer (copper nickle ferris) type line. Coil prices seem to be what steel line prices at local parts stores.

I have not installed "cunifer" yet on vehicle but just playing with doouble flares- almost have to try to mess them up.

http://www.tooltopia.com/search.aspx?find=sur%26r

Many of the SUR&R is USA made.

Jay Leno on cunfer lines
http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/video/all-about-brake-lines/190260/

 

[iroc409]

I still dont understand why with all of the safety regulations being put on newly mfg'd vehicles why they(feds) haven't mandated S.S. brake lines on new cars, it'd do a heck of alot more good than some of the other **** they force on new car buyers.

I believe I read somewhere specifically not to use stainless lines in a car. It's due to vibration fatigue, apparently the SS is more prone to breakage in that way than regular carbon steel.

 

[tcianci]

I believe I read somewhere specifically not to use stainless lines in a car. It's due to vibration fatigue, apparently the SS is more prone to breakage in that way than regular carbon steel.

I know there are some companies that offer pre bent stainless lines for classics and muscle cars. My shop experience tells me that stainless work-hardens very easily and could possibly crack. I would think that the alloy they use in the stainless lines takes this into consideration. One thing I would guess it that you would be hard pressed to make stainless lines at home without having some trouble getting flares that arent cracked.

 

[red92s]

Been having excellent luck with the Eastwood Flaring Tool, and Cunifer tubing from Fedhill, particulary on the bubble flares.