Double Entry Doors

[tmcdonal]

I'm in the process of converting half of a detached, finished, 4 car garage into a climate controlled workspace in (humid) San Antonio, TX. Based on a couple of considerations with the existing layout, it will be approximately 16 x 22 feet.

I've got the electrical done as well as lights. A dual split AC is being delivered tomorrow. After that's in, I planned on framing up the wall, insulation, drywall, and installing the door. Decided I might as well order a door and have run into a minor roadblock.

I had planned on a 60" windowless double door that would be pinned closed on one side and open on the other. Seeing as this is is climate controlled area, I figured there would be an off the shelf entry door option. Nope! After lots of digging, I came across this old link:
http://answers.lowes.com/answers/0534/product/3643216/questions.htm
Although it's what I'm seeking, it hasn't been available for a long time.

The other half of this garage will be used for the wife's car and kids toys/bikes, etc. I definitely want windowless as I know I'll regret it later if I went with something akin to patio doors. My largest existing tool is a 31" deep table saw, so I could get away with a 36" door, but I really like the idea for the original plan.

I even checked out the Habitat for Humanity resale store, but no luck there. Below is the plan layout. It looks a bit crowded with lights and tools shown, but it actually has a nice open feel to it.

Although I would consider myself quite "handy", I have no construction experience and am learning some of this on the fly. Am I missing something obvious? Any suggestions on where to look for double doors?

-Tom

 

[AZ Pete]

I just googled "steel double wide doors". Came up with some that look to fill the bill. Look at Harvard Doors.

http://www.harvardproducts.com/all_steel_frame.html


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[ADSR]

I just googled "steel double wide doors". Came up with some that look to fill the bill. Look at Harvard Doors.

http://www.harvardproducts.com/all_steel_frame.html


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Look at the prices! This is why i found mine used on C/L

Steel doors are not cheap. I look for demo sales where the doors are fire rated. Once installed, rated doors cannot be used or rated again. They still go for good money, but much less.

 

[tmcdonal]

AZ Pete, Thanks, but I almost mentioned price in the original post. I'm not saying I didn't find any, but rather that I'm seeing a little over $200 for a single steel entry door and $1,000+ for double doors. Was wondering if I'm missing something, but I guess not.

I'll have a few weeks before I get to the point where I have to make a decision, so I'll keep my eyes open for something used in the meantime.

If someone know of a source with more reasonable source, I'm all ears.

-Tom

 

[Fishplate]

Looks like you have every tool you need to make any door you could want. Just sayin'...

 

[tmcdonal]

Looks like you have every tool you need to make any door you could want. Just sayin'...

Lol - My wife said something similar. What I'm lacking is experience in that department.

-Tom

 

[sneasle]

Why the desire to avoid a patio style door? Security? You can always put some of the security film over the windows, or get something with small enough windows as to not provide access.


Bit larger than what you wanted at 72"
72" Door


This may end up being a bit of a search, everything my googlefoo is returning has some kind of glass in it somewhere... be it a window or a side light.

 

[sneasle]

Lol - My wife said something similar. What I'm lacking is experience in that department.

-Tom

There is a youtube video from ThisOldHouse that I saw a few months ago that did an amazing job walking you through how to build your own door. I'll look and see if I can find it.

 

[tmcdonal]

No, not worried about security. The garage has it's own partition on our alarm system. I'm worried about glass breaking - either from me inside moving a board around, or from the outside with kids bikes/scooters/baseballs/etc.

The example you gave is slightly larger than I wanted. However, that small pane of glass up high is not a deal breaker. Probably the best option at the moment if I can make the extra foot work.

-Tom

 

[PWC Repair]

Simple 2x2 rectangular frame, 2 sheets 1.5" thick Styrofoam, 4 sheets 3x8 26ga galvanized from your local HVAC supply house, button head screws, and hardware from the local big box home store.......done! You can do this and be proud of it!

 

[ADSR]

Tom, Have you looked at a re-store in your area? What about building supplies on C/L? It's reno season right now and a lot of good stuff will start popping up.

 

[tmcdonal]

Simple 2x2 rectangular frame, 2 sheets 1.5" thick Styrofoam, 4 sheets 3x8 26ga galvanized from your local HVAC supply house, button head screws, and hardware from the local big box home store.......done! You can do this and be proud of it!

While I appreciate the idea and I'm sure it's not beyond my ability, quite honestly, I'd rather buy two used doors and install those than spend the time on manufacturing ones.

-Tom

 

[tmcdonal]

Tom, Have you looked at a re-store in your area? What about building supplies on C/L? It's reno season right now and a lot of good stuff will start popping up.

Yes, I tried the Habitat ReStores. Going to keep my eye open while I'm working on the A/C and wall build.

-Tom

 

[volleyball]

I am taking out what you want and putting in 3/4 glass unit as my entry.
Double doors are way more than double single doors, and for reason.
There is the astragal, the double the doors, the special frame you need. The low volume of sales.
Part of your sticker shock is the width you want. 72 is way more common and cheaper than 60.
I made my own frame for a really odd door combination, a 36 and a 32. A few pieces of 2 x 6's , lots of time with table saw and router.

 

[ADSR]

I am taking out what you want and putting in 3/4 glass unit as my entry.
Double doors are way more than double single doors, and for reason.
There is the astragal, the double the doors, the special frame you need. The low volume of sales.
Part of your sticker shock is the width you want. 72 is way more common and cheaper than 60.
I made my own frame for a really odd door combination, a 36 and a 32. A few pieces of 2 x 6's , lots of time with table saw and router.

Would like to see pics! sounds awesome!

 

[sublimate]

Not an answer to your question, but looking at your plan - can you have the doors open out? You're going to run into a lot of clearance issues with your doors opening in.

 

[volleyball]

The reference he had for lowes was outswinging doors

 

[kbs2244]

Would 48 inchs be enough?
I think that is the standard size in DRs offices, rest homes, etc.

 

[tmcdonal]

Not an answer to your question, but looking at your plan - can you have the doors open out? You're going to run into a lot of clearance issues with your doors opening in.

My original plan was to have them open out to gain as much usable space as possible. However, it might be an issue with the car parked on the other side. The shelves and cabinets are pretty set where they are and the doors will open into a walkway as is. There's also a refrigerator and freezer on the outside of the shop. The door opening isn't set in stone until I get the wall started. Then we'll figure where the car is going to be parked and kids toys are going to be stored.

My wife mentioned me putting my dozen scuba tanks into the shop area, but I don't plan on that. Might use the door opening as a compromise.

-Tom

 

[tmcdonal]

I am taking out what you want and putting in 3/4 glass unit as my entry.
Double doors are way more than double single doors, and for reason.
There is the astragal, the double the doors, the special frame you need. The low volume of sales.
Part of your sticker shock is the width you want. 72 is way more common and cheaper than 60.
I made my own frame for a really odd door combination, a 36 and a 32. A few pieces of 2 x 6's , lots of time with table saw and router.

Low volume of sales I figured. Two times the door as well. Just couldn't see how it goes from a $200 single door to a $1,000 double door.

The more I type replies, the more I'm thinking that I'm looking at building something or hanging the doors myself instead of a pre-hung snap in place. I had another electrical question thread, where once I got some answers, I went in a different direction than initially planned.

-Tom

 

[tmcdonal]

On a slightly unrelated note, the trucking company just dropped off my Friedrich Breeze dual split A/C. Looking forward to getting that in to make the working there a bit more manageable.

-Tom

 

[volleyball]

I think the 72" french door patio door is the lowest price readily available unit. Patio door are lower than entry if that is an issue.
If you don't need an exterior door, there are interior doors. Cannot tell by your drawing.

 

[tmcdonal]

I think the 72" french door patio door is the lowest price readily available unit. Patio door are lower than entry if that is an issue.
If you don't need an exterior door, there are interior doors. Cannot tell by your drawing.

Yes, I need exterior doors for the insulation factor. During the Summer, the rest of the garage gets over 100 degrees.

-Tom

 

[sublimate]

My original plan was to have them open out to gain as much usable space as possible. However, it might be an issue with the car parked on the other side. The shelves and cabinets are pretty set where they are and the doors will open into a walkway as is. There's also a refrigerator and freezer on the outside of the shop. The door opening isn't set in stone until I get the wall started. Then we'll figure where the car is going to be parked and kids toys are going to be stored.

My wife mentioned me putting my dozen scuba tanks into the shop area, but I don't plan on that. Might use the door opening as a compromise.

-Tom

Personally it seems like a great application for a sliding barn door like Norm has on the New Yankee Workshop. You have all the room to the right of the doorway for it to slide over. It'll give you plenty of opening and it'll be a nice project to build in your workshop. This type of door is much easier to build than a swinging door.

 

[ADSR]

Personally it seems like a great application for a sliding barn door like Norm has on the New Yankee Workshop. You have all the room to the right of the doorway for it to slide over. It'll give you plenty of opening and it'll be a nice project to build in your workshop.

Too hard to seal! I tried this before and you can't stop rodents from getting in there.

 

[banjo2733]

A little door lesson first off, doors aren't measured in inches, they are designated in feet I.E. 2'-6" =30".

Why not buy one each 2'-6" replacement doors, one R.H, one L.H., frame it yourself, hang the doors, buy the hardware to pin the "off" door, buy a piece of 1/4" X 2" CRS to attach to the pinned door to serve as a door stop and you're pretty much there.

Don,t forget to buy Security hinges as they will be exposed and subject to tampering.

Purchase and prep. time plus 10 hour install.

Just my opinion,. YMMV

 

[tmcdonal]

Personally it seems like a great application for a sliding barn door like Norm has on the New Yankee Workshop. You have all the room to the right of the doorway for it to slide over. It'll give you plenty of opening and it'll be a nice project to build in your workshop. This type of door is much easier to build than a swinging door.

In my searching, I came across those. However, I'm looking for a good weather seal to keep the heat out. Also, I don't want to lose wall storage space next to the door.

Looks like this has probably run it's course. My choices are to:
1) Pay big bucks to get exactly what I want in a pre-hung door.
2) Build something myself.
3) Hang existing doors to create what I want.
4) Get luck and find a used one at the Habitat restore or CL.

-Tom

 

[tmcdonal]

A little door lesson first off, doors aren't measured in inches, they are designated in feet I.E. 2'-6" =30".

Why not buy one each 2'-6" replacement doors, one R.H, one L.H., frame it yourself, hang the doors, buy the hardware to pin the "off" door, buy a piece of 1/4" X 2" CRS to attach to the pinned door to serve as a door stop and you're pretty much there.

Don,t forget to buy Security hinges as they will be exposed and subject to tampering.

Purchase and prep. time plus 10 hour install.

Just my opinion,. YMMV

Your post came in as I was typing my last one. That's pretty much what I'm realizing now. I've had many projects where I think "I'm sure somebody makes X," only to find they don't, or it's crazy expensive. That's what I ran into here.

The security hinges are a good point. Possibly slight overkill as I'm counting on the garage alarm for overall security, but the area will be locked to keep young kids out. Might as well not make it any easier on the casual crook.

Appreciate everyone's insight/comments.

-Tom

 

[banjo2733]

Let me know if you need help with the R.O. and framing/finishing details, be glad to help,E-Mail in profile.

 

[LifeLongWNYer]

This shouldn't be a big deal, as long as you can live with a door width combination which uses somewhat common dimensions. 2 doors at 3'0" is common as is a pair of doors with one leaf at 3' 0" and the other at 1' 6"' which are used in some hospitals to get room for the beds to pass. The common dimensions will be in stock, the others can be fabricated for you.

Look in your area for builders supply vendors, then "hollow metal door frames" and you should be able to find something that won't break the bank. Some suppliers also sell wide door frames broken down, so that they ship / deliver easier.

One leaf, the one you don't use all the time, or the "inactive" leaf, will have "flush bolts" one of which protrudes into a hole in the header, the other of which goes into a hole in the threshold to secure that leaf. The other ( active ) leaf has a latchset which has the latchbolt engage in a strikeplate in the inactive door to secure it.

If you can't find a supplied, go to the construction site where a commercial building, a school, or something similar is going up, ask where they got the "hollow metal door frames."





.

 

[AZ Pete]

Looking forward to seeing the finished product

 

[tmcdonal]

The moral of this story is it never hurts to ask. I was in Lowes and the custom door order desk that is never manned actually had someone knowledgeable there. The exact doors I wanted were $400, minus $25 discount card, minus 10% military discount (wife). I did have to go with 36" doors, but delivery in 3 weeks.

-Tom

 

[ADSR]

The moral of this story is it never hurts to ask. I was in Lowes and the custom door order desk that is never manned actually had someone knowledgeable there. The exact doors I wanted were $400, minus $25 discount card, minus 10% military discount (wife). I did have to go with 36" doors, but delivery in 3 weeks.

-Tom

That's great! 340$ for exactly what you wanted!

 

[sbosecker]

The moral of this story is it never hurts to ask. I was in Lowes and the custom door order desk that is never manned actually had someone knowledgeable there. The exact doors I wanted were $400, minus $25 discount card, minus 10% military discount (wife). I did have to go with 36" doors, but delivery in 3 weeks.

-Tom

Tom,

Could you please post information on the model of this door system? It sounds like it might be what I'm looking for.

Best regards,

Scott

 

[Saw]

Great, glad you found a close to what you were looking for.

Just proves it never hurts to ask and you had someone there with knowledge.

I was going to mention interior fire doors, center filled with gypsum might work, not sure if they would have condensation issue.

 

[tmcdonal]

I found the order form, but there's no model number listed. It's says:
Manufacturer: "Reliabilt by JELD-WEN Millwork Masters Exterior"
RO Size = 75" W x 82 1/4" H
Handling = 25 - LH (I think this represents the left hand opening and swinging inside)
After that, there's a lot of details about measurements and finish.

If you go to the Lowes Millwork/Doors order desk, I'm sure they can help you.

Incidentally, the door arrived well packaged, but with a few relatively superficial scratches in the primer paint, but they ended up knocking off another 15%.

-Tom

 

[sbosecker]

Tom,

Thanks for the info! I'll try to stop by Lowes this coming week and see what they have.

Any chance of you posting a picture of the doors that you got?

Best regards,

Scott

I found the order form, but there's no model number listed. It's says:
Manufacturer: "Reliabilt by JELD-WEN Millwork Masters Exterior"
RO Size = 75" W x 82 1/4" H
Handling = 25 - LH (I think this represents the left hand opening and swinging inside)
After that, there's a lot of details about measurements and finish.

If you go to the Lowes Millwork/Doors order desk, I'm sure they can help you.

Incidentally, the door arrived well packaged, but with a few relatively superficial scratches in the primer paint, but they ended up knocking off another 15%.

-Tom

 

[tmcdonal]

If you get someone who is competent, it should just be going through a series of questions like:
- 6 panel or straight
- in or out swing door
- left or right entry
- one hole or two for deadbolt

I was watching as the salesman was making his selections, and he did go down the wrong "path" a couple of times, but caught himself and backed up. I'm not sure if it's an option but the hinges and striker plate are polished brass color. Not what I would have selected if given a choice.

I've slowly been building a partition wall for my workshop area and coincidentally, yesterday was the door install. This is dividing a 4 car garage in half, so I didn't have to worry about weatherproofing. Never did this before, but I did it by myself and it took about 2.5 hours. Attached are a couple of pics. Let me know if you're interested in any detail.




-Tom