Double Fence Gate

[Jmunk]

I’m replacing the fence around my backyard and making a 12ft gate with double leafs to be able to pull my boat trailer in. I’m trying to verify I’m building it correctly. I want to avoid sagging if possible.

I’m looking at making two 6’ x 4’ frames out of 1.5” x 1.5” x 1/8” steel tubing. The wood pickets will extend 6” above and below the framing. If anyone believe 2x4’s would be substantial enough I’m open to it.

I’m undecided about the hinge post being either 6x6 sunk about 3ft with a few bags of concrete or if I should use steel tubing or a steel pipe. If I should use steel as my hinge post any recommendations for the size and shape?

Also, any sturdy hinge recommendations?

My plan is to build the framing with a cross brace in the photo.

 

[Contender54]

After building my own 6 ft fence a few years ago, I'd go with pipe.
I've seen too many of the wooden posts rot and warp.

 

[OccupantRJ]

I would also add a turnbuckle with stainless steel cable to the top of each hinge post running downward and outward at an angle to the bottom of another post at ground level to allow a bit of tuning as the gates sag over time due to soil conditions and weight of the gates. It is nice to later be able to tweak a turnbuckle in increments over time to make corrections. I use this device to keep my wide chain link gate pairs level to each other.

 

[txvwnut]

Build it just like the one pictured and you will be fine. Mine are 1 1/2" .120" wall with 4"x4" .125" wall posts set 3 feet in the ground. In the link you'll see my pickets extend above the frames quite a bit, I had planned on rolling an arch then adding it later and cutting the pickets to match. I think it's safe to say that arch ain't gonna happen and the pickets haven't moved any.

Show us your welding projects

Loose clothing is not the best when using a lathe. Just sayin. I'm with you. The sweatshirt came off shortly after. I didn't want to interrupt concentration.

www.garagejournal.com

 

[LopezBart]

I’m replacing the fence around my backyard and making a 12ft gate with double leafs to be able to pull my boat trailer in. I’m trying to verify I’m building it correctly. I want to avoid sagging if possible.

I’m looking at making two 6’ x 4’ frames out of 1.5” x 1.5” x 1/8” steel tubing. The wood pickets will extend 6” above and below the framing. If anyone believe 2x4’s would be substantial enough I’m open to it.

I’m undecided about the hinge post being either 6x6 sunk about 3ft with a few bags of concrete or if I should use steel tubing or a steel pipe. If I should use steel as my hinge post any recommendations for the size and shape?

Also, any sturdy hinge recommendations?

My plan is to build the framing with a cross brace in the photo.

The steel frame w/ angle brace will work like a charm; I've built a few and they've all been fine. You may find .083 (14 gauge) wall thickness sufficient and save some weight and cost. Note that with steel, the angle brace can be in tension or compression unlike with wood which must be in compression. A brace in tension can be much lighter than one in compressions (no buckling issues).

As regards to the hinge post, wood always warps sooner or later in my experience. Perhaps when one could get good straight PT it didn't, but if the post will support a cantilevered load, it needs to be steel IMO.

For very long (wide) gates, I've made a notched slot for the top hinge, and put a wheel on the end of the gate. Since our small kids liked to stand on the gate and look out from the backyard at the time, this worked well. Don't forget, the soil also needs to be strong enough to support the gate, even in the winter when it's wet.

I would set a piece of 2.5"-3" square tube or pipe at least 2-2.5' feet deep in concrete for hinge posts. Keep in mind that what matters is diameter, not wall thickness (aside from corrosion issues). If you're close to salt water, consider galvanizing if this needs to last a long time.

As far as hinges go, I've used the big National ones; the doors on my shop will use those bullet hinges.

 

[Jmunk]

Build it just like the one pictured and you will be fine. Mine are 1 1/2" .120" wall with 4"x4" .125" wall posts set 3 feet in the ground. In the link you'll see my pickets extend above the frames quite a bit, I had planned on rolling an arch then adding it later and cutting the pickets to match. I think it's safe to say that arch ain't gonna happen and the pickets haven't moved any.

Show us your welding projects

Loose clothing is not the best when using a lathe. Just sayin. I'm with you. The sweatshirt came off shortly after. I didn't want to interrupt concentration.

www.garagejournal.com

Thanks! How wide is the gate in total? Looks to be taller than what mine will be? Do you have any photos of the hinges you used? I’ll have to price out steel tubing.

 

[Jmunk]

The steel frame w/ angle brace will work like a charm; I've built a few and they've all been fine. You may find .083 (14 gauge) wall thickness sufficient and save some weight and cost. Note that with steel, the angle brace can be in tension or compression unlike with wood which must be in compression. A brace in tension can be much lighter than one in compressions (no buckling issues).

As regards to the hinge post, wood always warps sooner or later in my experience. Perhaps when one could get good straight PT it didn't, but if the post will support a cantilevered load, it needs to be steel IMO.

For very long (wide) gates, I've made a notched slot for the top hinge, and put a wheel on the end of the gate. Since our small kids liked to stand on the gate and look out from the backyard at the time, this worked well. Don't forget, the soil also needs to be strong enough to support the gate, even in the winter when it's wet.

I would set a piece of 2.5"-3" square tube or pipe at least 2-2.5' feet deep in concrete for hinge posts. Keep in mind that what matters is diameter, not wall thickness (aside from corrosion issues). If you're close to salt water, consider galvanizing if this needs to last a long time.

As far as hinges go, I've used the big National ones; the doors on my shop will use those bullet hinges.

Thanks for the information. I agree that will be allow for sag at some point.

I’m about 2hrs from the coast so salty air isn’t a concern. Any ideas how long the steel post would last in soil with heavy clay? I did look at galvanized and it’s pricey. I’ll also price out 3”x3” tubing.

I appreciate the information and always open to hearing what others suggest.

 

[txvwnut]

Thanks! How wide is the gate in total? Looks to be taller than what mine will be? Do you have any photos of the hinges you used? I’ll have to price out steel tubing.

It's a little over 9' wide and the frames are right around 5' high, the pickets are 6' . The hinges are standard weld on barrel hinges for iron gates, 4" rated at 150lbs a piece I think. Got them off of Amazon as I didn't feel like making any.

 

[LopezBart]

I’m about 2hrs from the coast so salty air isn’t a concern. Any ideas how long the steel post would last in soil with heavy clay? I did look at galvanized and it’s pricey. I’ll also price out 3”x3” tubing.

Weld the bottom closed, metal prep, paint and slather on some foundation tar on the part that goes in the ground if you have it. It'll last a long time.

 

[Jmunk]

It's a little over 9' wide and the frames are right around 5' high, the pickets are 6' . The hinges are standard weld on barrel hinges for iron gates, 4" rated at 150lbs a piece I think. Got them off of Amazon as I didn't feel like making any.

Thanks, I appreciate the information. I just need to source the tubing or pipe. Which ever has the better price.

 

[The Cobbler]

if I was going to build a gate like the first post shows, I would incorporate a removeable top rail that could be put in place while the gates are closed to keep the posts from canting over time . even adjustable so you can put a bit of pressure outwards

 

[Jmunk]

Weld the bottom closed, metal prep, paint and slather on some foundation tar on the part that goes in the ground if you have it. It'll last a long time.

Good idea, I thought it might be best to leave it open for the concrete to back fill some for a “good bite” in the hole. It makes sense to seal it up. I’ve never had any experience with steel set in concrete and how long it lasts. I feel good enough to go this route vs. wood post. I can get the holes down to 3ft and will be around 5ft above ground. Should be a solid anchor point. I just don’t want to ever think about removing it once the concrete is in.

 

[The Cobbler]

Weld the bottom closed, metal prep, paint and slather on some foundation tar on the part that goes in the ground if you have it. It'll last a long time.

in a freeze zone when water gets in and can't drain out, freezing will expand the tube and split over time

 

[Jmunk]

if I was going to build a gate like the first post shows, I would incorporate a removeable top rail that could be put in place while the gates are closed to keep the posts from canting over time . even adjustable so you can put a bit of pressure outwards

A spreader bar wouldn’t be too hard to fabricate.

 

[txvwnut]

A spreader bar wouldn’t be too hard to fabricate.

What I did when I built mine was tack the gate frames to the posts see how much if any movement I had with the weight of the gates on the posts. Then I took a ratchet strap and preloaded the posts cut the tacks and reattached the gates removed the strap and checked for sag. The one thing you can't account for is movement of the ground. I'm on sandy loam which moves a little between the seasons so in the summer months I get just enough movement to let the gate frames touch at the top corners.

 

[Jmunk]

Today I went to pickup my order for all the wood related to the fence. I went to a local fence supply store. While I was there I inquired about a metal frame for my gate since they had a fabrication shop. They use 1 5/8” galvanized pipe for the frames and recommended a 4” galvanized post for the hinge posts. I gave them rough size estimates for the two gates and their price was $300 each. I was surprised to hear their price for the 4” galvanized post at 8ft was $90, seemed reasonable.

They had a large selection of hinge options if I used 1 5/8” pipe for framing and a 4” pipe hinge post. I do need to find out if the hinges would allow for a tight fit-up between the wood pickets on the gate and the rest of the fence. I’d like to avoid big gaps if possible.

I’m not a huge fan of welding galvanized, but something else to consider.

 

[Jmunk]

I picked up the hinge posts, 4”x 8’ S40
galvanized pipe with 1/4” wall with an OD of 4.5”.

I have the holes ready to set the posts. I need to pick up the concrete. I have the holes 36” deep and about 50” will be above ground level.

I am looking for hinges. I saw earlier that someone people used the barrel hinges. I’m looking for something that will allow for minimal gap between the gate and hinge post. I know I need a gap so the pickets on the gate don’t swing into the hinge post and it’s picket attached to it.

I did see this which I think would give me the ability to swing away from the hinge post pickets?

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/16jTnf3LhY/?mibextid=wwXIfr

Lastly, what’s the consensus on using 14 gauge steel vs 1/8” for the 1.5”x1.5” steel tubing for the gate frame.

 

[Jmunk]

Hinge posts are set, need to cut them to length and fill with concrete. I want the gates to open outward so I’m down to getting the gate material and hinges.

Any thoughts on a style hinge like this that I could mount them to the front of the hinge post. It should allow for an outward swing fairly easy. I’m not set on these but an option.

I was hoping to cover the hinge post with the pickets so it wasn’t visible but it’s an outward swing it makes it difficult, or maybe I’m just thinking about this wrong.

 

[Jmunk]

Gates are fabricated, painted, and hung. Need to tweak the final position for the hinges but it’s close.

Gate frames are 1.5” square tubing 1/8” wall.

For hinges I used these off of the jungle website. They have two sealed bearings and slotted adjustment.

Need to get 2x4’s cut for the top and bottom of the gate for the pickets to attach to and add can bolts. Should be pretty much wrapped up after that.

 

[The Cobbler]

looking good

 

[shanker]

just FYI, the diagonal bar in your gates goes the correct direction to prevent sag (under compression, not tension) but being that you built your gates out of metal, you can get away with the cross support brace being more than 45*. I've built a bunch of gates (a lot of them were **** and needed rebuilding) and I'm always trying to do better with each and every build.

I'm about to build two more 16' pasture gates when the weather cools a bit.

SWI Fence on YT has some great fencing and gate building video's...You're off to a great start.