Double pole breaker locations

[duneslider]

More of a question based on a comment I read else where. Most electrical panels I have seen have the 30-40-50 amp 220v breakers at the top of the panel. Is that required? Question came up where someone added a 220 breaker for a hot tub or something down towards the bottom where there were open slots and was told you can't do that. If you can't do that and the wires going to the other breakers are too short to move the breakers down what is the correct way to handle this? Can you just wire nut extensions onto the wires to move them all down?

 

[u2slow]

Read the decal in the panel to see if it has restrictions/guidelines for max breaker ampacity per position - sometimes a 'per stab' rating; or only certain breaker models in certain positions.

Otherwise, the hot-tub breaker can go anywhere in the panel.

 

[Bert_]

I've never seen a panel with that sort of restriction

 

[theoldwizard1]

I've never seen a panel with that sort of restriction

I HAVE seen restriction on the quantity and placement of tandem breakers l

 

[mike93lx]

I HAVE seen restriction on the quantity and placement of tandem breakers l

Thankfully that isn't what this is about

 

[mike93lx]

More of a question based on a comment I read else where. Most electrical panels I have seen have the 30-40-50 amp 220v breakers at the top of the panel. Is that required? Question came up where someone added a 220 breaker for a hot tub or something down towards the bottom where there were open slots and was told you can't do that. If you can't do that and the wires going to the other breakers are too short to move the breakers down what is the correct way to handle this? Can you just wire nut extensions onto the wires to move them all down?

You can make junctions in the panel, but I would keep it to a minimum. It adds a lot of bulk and mess.

The only time I have seen a recommendation for breaker placement is whole home surge, being as close to the main as possible. Otherwise the label will tell you about restrictions, if they exist

 

[Git]

I installed a 125 amp breaker in my main panel to run a sub panel in the very bottom position. There was no restrictions on where this breaker could be, BUT when we had solar installed, there was a requirement that solar/backfeed breaker had to be installed in the bottom of the panel. (Opposite of the load). So they had to move this 125 amp breaker up, the cables were too short and they used a connector like the one in the photo. (and it did take up a lot of room, no much space left in the main panel to do anything)

 

[ycgoat]

The only restrictions I have seen were on split bus panels, which the single pole breakers sections were fed from a branch breaker in the 240v section. I have no idea of why they made things like that. Maybe be a hold over from fuse panels

 

[Terry D]

When a panel is wired new or wired as a replacement. It is common pratice to start with the largest size 2-pole breakers and work down in size ending with the 15 amp single poles at the bottom. Sometimes some will leave a couple of blank spots up top with the 2-poles for future add ons. It dosent matter if they or in order or not, its just aesthetics. But when circuits get added later, you have to use the open spots. It is fine to put your spa breaker at the bottom.

And there are panels that have a maximum stab rating. I believe Cutler Hammer has a 140 amp maximum stap rating.

 

[sparky 1971]

Two poles can go pretty much anywhere, at least I've never seen any restrictions on where in a panel they can be placed. . On the rare occasion I am installing a new panel, I have a tendency to start putting breakers in at the bottom and work my way up. That way, I don't have to fight getting wires past breakers that are already installed. I will usually start by getting the two poles out of the way just because that gets more wire out of the way quicker.

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

I usually placed 2 pole "heavy load" breakers on the top because of generated heat from the heavier loads, This way the heat rises up and does NOT affect the ambient temperature around the single pole breakers with little air circulation being so tightly stacked on each other…….. All breakers are affected by ambient heat. That is just "my thoughts" and the NEC does not address positioning 2 pole breakers in a panel.
HOWEVER the NEC addresses that all equipment must be installed as per manufacturer specs. Be aware that the manufacturer instructions must be adhered to because that is the way the equipment was UL tested, READ the label and specs on ALL equipment…….. This is why a electrical inspector or plan reviewer will ask for installation instructions or specs.

 

[Paulski]

Should say on the decal or instructions for the panel if there is a requirement. This Siemens panel says to install any breakers 80-100 amps at the lowest position, and every other slot is 70 amp max (for this specific panel)

https://images.thdstatic.com/catalog/pdfImages/00/007c1148-153d-43f0-997f-4decf7846b9c.pdf

 

[dscheidt]

The only restrictions I have seen were on split bus panels, which the single pole breakers sections were fed from a branch breaker in the 240v section. I have no idea of why they made things like that. Maybe be a hold over from fuse panels

they were cheaper. A 100A or 200A breaker was expensive, so not using one saved money.

 

[Norcal]

2-50A or a 50A & a 60A opposite each other are not going to be a problem, did see ITE panels with a 110A per bus stab maximum but they have been out of production for years as Siemens has redesigned their panels. Siemens bought ITE.

 

[sparky 1971]

2-50A or a 50A & a 60A opposite each other are not going to be a problem, did see ITE panels with a 110A per bus stab maximum but they have been out of production for years as Siemens has redesigned their panels. Siemens bought ITE.

Just last summer/fall I ran into three separate Siemens panels that had 110 amp bus stab ratings. Two of them were one year old homes that I had to install a separately metered panel for electric furnaces with the feeder coming off the main panel. I got lucky on those, the math worked out to be a minimum 108 amp for the feed. The third was a brand new outdoor panel last September.