Double Pole Breaker

[Rich M.]

My kitchen was remodeled about five years ago and the contract did not put in tamper resistant receptacles above the countertop, which apparently is required by NEC. So I should change them out.

Okay, so I check the circuit panel box to identify the breaker to see the amps. The receptacles in place now are 15 amp. Anyway, the breaker is a 20 amp double pole. This breaker controls the counter receptacles 2 GFCI 2 standard)p, 2 under cabinet lights, and the refrigerator.

First, is this normal to use a double pole breaker for here and why not use two single breakers and put the refrigerator on one and the other stuff on another?

I am planning on swapping out the 15 amp standard receptacles with 20 amp ones.

 

[duneslider]

Not really any need to replace the receptacles with 20amp versions, they are designed for 20amp pass through but just 15amp at the outlet. I doubt you are plugging in anything with a 20amp load into one receptacle.

My experience is usually the fridge has a dedicated breaker, the other stuff would be fine on another breaker. I am assuming you mean a tandem breaker, which is basically two breakers that are squished into the space of one.

 

[archtimb]

Wait for folks that are currently in the trade to answer, as I have been out of it for some time. But, I believe it is code now to require a double pole breaker if the circuits are fed by a 3 wire circuit. The receptacles are fine as already stated. More troubling is that there is no mention of GFI protection. Although that will be problematical with a 3 wire feed. I don't know if it has improved but GFI's used to not work on 3 wire circuits.

Was this work done by an older sparky? Holding on to old ways? I know in the 70's we always ran 3 wire circuits to feed kitchens but as I understand now with GFI's required it is now done with separate 2 wire cables. Plus needing more circuits than two for modern kitchens.

 

[pattenp]

A 2pole breaker or 2 singles with a handle tie are required for a multiwire circuit where the neutral is shared between the 2 circuits.

 

[Rich M.]

Not really any need to replace the receptacles with 20amp versions, they are designed for 20amp pass through but just 15amp at the outlet. I doubt you are plugging in anything with a 20amp load into one receptacle.

My experience is usually the fridge has a dedicated breaker, the other stuff would be fine on another breaker. I am assuming you mean a tandem breaker, which is basically two breakers that are squished into the space of one.

The breaker is covering two panel slots.

 

[Rich M.]

Not really any need to replace the receptacles with 20amp versions, they are designed for 20amp pass through but just 15amp at the outlet. I doubt you are plugging in anything with a 20amp load into one receptacle.

My experience is usually the fridge has a dedicated breaker, the other stuff would be fine on another breaker. I am assuming you mean a tandem breaker, which is basically two breakers that are squished into the space of one.

The GFCi on the counter are 20 amp and I was told years ago by an old time electrician that if the breaker is 20 amp and the wire is 12 gauge then a 20 amp receptacle should be used, but to cheap out, you can use a 15 amp.

He did mention in the kitchen it is highly unlikely you will use many appliances requiring 20 amps. It seems like modern, bigger microwaves and even air fryers are pulling a load.

 

[Rich M.]

As a follow up to my initial post, when am I required by NEC to put in tamper resistant receptacles? I mentioned my kitchen was remodeled in ‘17 and none of the receptacles, including the GFCI receptacles are tamper resistant.

My goal is limit what a house inspector might find out of compliance. My house was built in 1963.

 

[u2slow]

Code compliance is limited to when the house was built (original permit), plus whatever changes were done under permit since.

I don't imagine TR devices existed (nor code mandated) in '07, thus you do not require them.

 

[pattenp]

The GFCi on the counter are 20 amp and I was told years ago by an old time electrician that if the breaker is 20 amp and the wire is 12 gauge then a 20 amp receptacle should be used, but to cheap out, you can use a 15 amp.

He did mention in the kitchen it is highly unlikely you will use many appliances requiring 20 amps. It seems like modern, bigger microwaves and even air fryers are pulling a load.

15A duplex receptacles have been allowed on 20A circuits since... well a long long time. The only things that comes to mind that uses a 20A receptacle with the sideways slot is commercial sanding and buffing floor machines.

 

[Stuart in MN]

Temper resistant receptacles showed up in the 2008 NEC. The question is what version of the NEC was in force in your state at the date when the receptacles were installed - different states update their requirements at different times, so it may be possible they were allowed but you'll have to check on the dates.

 

[Norcal]

If a appliance requires a 20A plug, it will require a dedicated 20A circuit, 20A receptacles are a waste of money in a kitchen or shop, I used 20A duplex receptacles in my shop because I had them, in the 29 years since it was built not once have they been needed. As to replacing the non tamper resistant receptacles unless kids are around I would not bother, and countertop receptacles are not likely to have kids pushing objects into the slots.

 

[u2slow]

15A duplex receptacles have been allowed on 20A circuits since... well a long long time.

I'm not a fan of silly exceptions. The rest of code largely enforces matching receptacle/breaker ampacities. Good practices and workmanship go beyond code.

I'd rather know from a glance at the receptacle what amperage breaker i'm looking for in a panel. (since most are poorly marked.) JMHO.

 

[theoldwizard1]

First, is this normal to use a double pole breaker for here and why not use two single breakers and put the refrigerator on one and the other stuff on another?

I am planning on swapping out the 15 amp standard receptacles with 20 amp ones.

As mentioned, it is probably a multi wire circuit, not real common, but it is a reasonable way to save a buck on wire cost.

Swapping the receptacles will not gain you anything other than feeling good and a lighter wallet.

 

[rancherbill]

He did mention in the kitchen it is highly unlikely you will use many appliances requiring 20 amps.

They are 20a because you have bread make, crock pot and can opener on all at the same time you don't have the breakers tripping.

You split the receptacle and each one has 20A.

 

[Terry D]

Undercabinet lighting should not be on your countertop small appliance 20 amp circuits. Its probably nothing to worry about, but it is against code. The electrician should of known that.

 

[mike93lx]

I'm not a fan of silly exceptions. The rest of code largely enforces matching receptacle/breaker ampacities. Good practices and workmanship go beyond code.

I'd rather know from a glance at the receptacle what amperage breaker i'm looking for in a panel. (since most are poorly marked.) JMHO.

That isn't a silly exception, you just don't agree with it.

 

[pattenp]

That isn't a silly exception, you just don't agree with it.

100% with you. I think it's silly to use 20A duplexes when nothing in normal residential use needs them.

 

[Norcal]

That isn't a silly exception, you just don't agree with it.

He is from Canada, the CEC had plenty of silly rules like 15A kitchen circuits and Canada only 20A outlets that would not accept 15A plugs, and bathroom shaver outlets.
15A & 20A receptacles innards are identical, only the faces are different, and are rated for 20A feed through, it's safety has been proven by decades of use that way.
Edit.
I forgot the silly CEC rule requiring a separate compartment for the main breaker that branch circuit wiring is not allowed to pass through in service panels. That is the reason you see horizontally mounted panels sometimes.

 

[mikedodge]

Sometimes those 2 pole breakers for kitchen fed split outlets. It becomes muddy when renovations are done over time and they do something to try to meet code but skimp on some of the work.