Double tap?

[VinceK2]

Are there certain Square D QO breakers that can be double tapped?

I'm seeing a terminal that has spaces for two wires. (dimple-screw-dimple)

Does that tell if it's OK?

I'm not sure that I used the right terminilogy.

Thanks

Vince

 

[pattenp]

Yes. The breaker is marked on the side as to the number and size of wire allowed under the terminal.

 

[where2]

^^^^^^^^^^^^ What he said.
I've installed a few QO breakers recently, and there is definitely more instructional information on the side of the new ones than the old ones.

 

[Rob_b]

I think what he's asking is if he can actually place 2 wires on a single breaker......and the answer should be no, you shouldn't. I'll get the code book out later but I am almost certain you can't.

 

[Aceman]

Sq D QO and Homeline can take two wires legally.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I think what he's asking is if he can actually place 2 wires on a single breaker......and the answer should be no, you shouldn't. I'll get the code book out later but I am almost certain you can't.

Don't know about Canada, but in the NEC, there is nothing specific about double tapping. The issue is you are not supposed to put more wires on the terminal, than the manufacturer says you should. To do so would violate the approvals of the device.

Charles

 

[Steevo]

I thought you meant something else by "double-tap" . . .

 

[D.J.]

Me too Steveo!

 

[landyacht]

You can get "tandem" breakers with 2 screws side by side to take separate wires on separate circuits. Is that what you mean?

 

[pattenp]

Double Tapped Circuit Breaker

 

[wrench409]

Thanks pattenp!

Mine are just like that too. Glad I didn't have to break down my panel to take a photo.

So, I double tapped one to have on more outlet to plug my two wall warts into (Radio and battery charger) and keep the others on my work bench free for other uses.

I placed it in an out of the way spot.

 

[sickjuice]

I think what he's asking is if he can actually place 2 wires on a single breaker......and the answer should be no, you shouldn't. I'll get the code book out later but I am almost certain you can't.

Looking forward to that code reference chief

 

[gatchel]

Double Tapped Circuit Breaker

It doesn't get much better than a post like this!

 

[VinceK2]

Thanks for all the replies.

If Rob B can find the code reference, I'd be most interested in seeing it.

I have been trying to get a tandem breaker (15-amp), but it seems Square D changed the style of the 15-amper. They now have a "hook" on the wire end, rather than the "clip" that all the other breakers use. Interestingly, the 20-amp tandems have the clip.

Thanks again, all.

Vince

 

[where2]

I have been trying to get a tandem breaker (15-amp), but it seems Square D changed the style of the 15-amper. They now have a "hook" on the wire end, rather than the "clip" that all the other breakers use. Interestingly, the 20-amp tandems have the clip.

If the 15A tandem is intended to fit the QO panel, the hook versus the clip may simply limit where in the panel you can place the tandem. Hop over to Schneider's website and read up on the tandem breakers. It was an interesting read when I read it a few months ago. (Upper left corner of the page linked below).

http://www.schneider-electric.us/documents/customers/retail-consumer/qo-load-centers.pdf

 

[cyamaha2007]

Man i thought you were referring to a war ..... never mind dont want to lock your thread.

 

[Rob_b]

Well, here is all I can find including the article mentioned above..

Just as the original article states ( http://www.structuretech1.com/category/double-tapped-circuit-breakers ), it all depends on the breaker construction. This Square D one looks like it can accept two wires.

Relevant NEC section: 110.14(A) (“Terminals for more than one conductor and terminals used to connect aluminum shall be so identified”)

Make sure you consult local codes as well, I wouldn’t be surprised if a local code prohibits double tapping.

 

[gpalmer77]

Well, here is all I can find including the article mentioned above..

Just as the original article states ( http://www.structuretech1.com/category/double-tapped-circuit-breakers ), it all depends on the breaker construction. This Square D one looks like it can accept two wires.

Relevant NEC section: 110.14(A) (“Terminals for more than one conductor and terminals used to connect aluminum shall be so identified”)

Make sure you consult local codes as well, I wouldn’t be surprised if a local code prohibits double tapping.

At my old house, I was asked by the inspector to remove all double taps due to local code, had to replace with the double breakers in a single spot. I guess this was an example of local codes, or maybe just an inspector's requirement? I did it anyway, easy swap and he was happy.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Well, here is all I can find including the article mentioned above..

Just as the original article states ( http://www.structuretech1.com/category/double-tapped-circuit-breakers ), it all depends on the breaker construction. This Square D one looks like it can accept two wires.

Relevant NEC section: 110.14(A) (“Terminals for more than one conductor and terminals used to connect aluminum shall be so identified”)

Make sure you consult local codes as well, I wouldn’t be surprised if a local code prohibits double tapping.

But that doesnt say you cant have 2 wires under a breaker lug. It just states that the terminals should be marked if they can handle 2 wires!

 

[Rob_b]

But that doesnt say you cant have 2 wires under a breaker lug. It just states that the terminals should be marked if they can handle 2 wires!

I didn't write the NEC, can only quote from it. If it were me, I wouldn't do it. Way too hard to track down issues when they come up. I just replaced my panel at home just because I was running out of circuits and won't "double tap".

 

[VinceK2]

Thanks for the replpies and comments.

I found a suitable tandem breaker on e-bay, so the point is moot. I agree that it is better to not double tap.

Thanks, all,

Vince

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I didn't write the NEC, can only quote from it. If it were me, I wouldn't do it. Way too hard to track down issues when they come up. I just replaced my panel at home just because I was running out of circuits and won't "double tap".

Really? The NEC isnt prohibiting something allowed hy the manufacturer and u still wouldnt do it? And it wouldnt be that hard to track down a problem. Just remove one wire from the breaker lug at a time!

 

[Rob_b]

I still wouldn't do it...its just me maybe. My background is controls/electrical...PLC's and such. Why create what may be an issue later on. NEC is written on minimum standards like all other codes are. Setting the standards a little higher may cost a bit more in the long run but usually create fewer problems. Like many of you guys, you run a #12 wire for a 15amp circuit when a #14 is all that's required. You'll buy a length of SOOW cabtyre to make an extension cord when HD sells it for half the price with crappy factory ends. Its just my method of doing things...once

 

[theoldwizard1]

I found a suitable tandem breaker on e-bay, so the point is moot.

Totally different solution and probably better as each circuit ow has ts own breaker.

I agree that it is better to not double tap.

I always think it is odd when this discussion comes up that people don't just slice a pig tail on to the 2 wires and put that under into the lug (assuming it is not designed for 2 wires).

And yes folks, splices in the gutter of a load center are allowed !

 

[Aceman]

I still wouldn't do it...its just me maybe.

I think it's just you.

There is nothing wrong with double tapping a breaker that is made for it. If your out of breaker space and an existing circuit is lightly loaded, what's it hurting?

It's no different then coming off an existing recep and extending a circuit. Only this way, you are doing it in the panel.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Totally different solution and probably better as each circuit ow has ts own breaker.


I always think it is odd when this discussion comes up that people don't just slice a pig tail on to the 2 wires and put that under into the lug (assuming it is not designed for 2 wires).

And yes folks, splices in the gutter of a load center are allowed !

If a breaker cant take 2 wires then i do pig tails. I dont get why people dont do that, either!

 

[rdsk8ter]

Most of our local jurisdictions wont allow it (even if they are manufactured to allows such) they require pigtails, as far as the NEC code here its every electricians favorite code........ Article 90 to sum it up it doesn't matter what the rest of the book says if the inspector is not happy you are not done, but it also allows them to make a few exceptions that can be good for difficult jobs to save your ****.

 

[Next72969]

U could just splice to two circuits together with wire nuts and run a tail to the breaker