Downside to using copper for air?

[anythingyoucanimagine]

I own enough copper that this way will be cheaper (free) vs. buying something else. I want to run one center 1" line with four 3/4" branches/drops. Sweat fittings. Any issues with using copper for that?

 

[rlitman]

Nope. Have at it.

 

[mrobins297aaa]

none, after I took my black pipe apart after a few years and seen how rusty everything was I went to copper.

 

[MoonRise]

'Officially', the fittings are -supposed- to be brazed and not soldered.

Other than that, and the cost of copper, and that you should at least semi-protect the copper from getting bashed by things in the shop/garage, go for it.

No rust, helps cool off the air stream and thus helps condense some of the moisture out of the compressed air (for most places other than southern cali, or Arizona, or Texas, or other gawd-awful hot places ).

 

[Showkey]

'Officially', the fittings are -supposed- to be brazed and not soldered.

There’s many different opinions on the topic here’s one:

A soldered Type L joint has a pressure rating of 440 psi. If the you decide to braze that joint rather than solder it, the rating will be reduced to 293 psi — the annealed rating.

 

[fourjeepin]

Downsides are cost (you got that one covered) and the time to sweat the fittings. Oh, and the potential for leaks at each fitting.

 

[BD1]

There’s many different opinions on the topic here’s one:

A soldered Type L joint has a pressure rating of 440 psi. If the you decide to braze that joint rather than solder it, the rating will be reduced to 293 psi — the annealed rating.

Propress is the way to go. No flux, no solder, and no heat.


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[TRWham]

Propress is the way to go. No flux, no solder, and no heat.


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But you need to use the ProPress G fittings with HNBR seals (yellow dot) typically used for NG if you expect a higher oil content in the air.

 

[alcorelli]

I didn't even think of ProPress for my air system.
Already own all the tools.
Thanks for the yellow dot recommendation.

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[NC Rick]

I have been running all my shop air branches with copper for years. I use 1/2” runs from the main run of 1” pipe. Line pressure is 175 psi. Never had a problem. It’s my preferred material for ease of use and self support.

 

[alcorelli]

Back when we were still using 50/50 solder, we were told not to use it on air because the lead would work harden and crack.

So we did all air systems in black pipe.

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[The Tool Tyrant]

Personally, I believe copper is the only way to go.

 

[BD1]

I didn't even think of ProPress for my air system.
Already own all the tools.
Thanks for the yellow dot recommendation.

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I've done commercial compressed air systems before the Yellow dot natural gas fittings were available. I'm talking 15 years ago and no issues what so ever.
My personal compressed air system is 12 years old and no problems.
It's definitely a clean install and it'll last forever.
It's helpful to make sure tube is fully inserted and tubing marked. Only leaks we had were user error.


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[mcbane]

I wouldn’t worry about solder vs braze unless you have a super cold garage. Why refrigeration systems call for braze I believe is due to the ductile-brittle transition temperature of tin based solders. Tin is like glass when it gets cold enough.


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[Jazz1]

I used copper in my garage 20 years ago. Soldered fittings and no issues ever.

 

[Lonnies Performance]

I did mine in 3/4" copper with Sharkbite fittings instead of soldering overhead.
I worked out well for me.

 

[pcmeiners]

"'Officially', the fittings are -supposed- to be brazed and not soldered."

The only place solder is an issue is from the compressor output to the tank, a 2 stage compressor output does not come near solder melting point, only possible if you have a bad output valve. A single stage produces a higher output temp, with a possible solder melting temperature.

Copper all the way. Use Full flow valves

 

[Bigblockyeti]

I need to plumb my garage and would use soldered M copper in a heartbeat if I didn't care what it costs, but I do. Therefore I'm going to use PEX (just like the factory that makes PEX) for plumbing my air. Unless it's too expensive then I'll just use PVC.

 

[ddawg16]

Mine is copper......0 Issues

 

[engineer2]

Copper at home and at work for 20 years, zero issues.

Had a funny thing happen when I was installing new compressors and revising the piping. A not-so-handy exec came snooping around the compressor room when I was soldering up the pipe connections. I forgot one and opened the compressor tank. Pretty loud pop when the 1" line blew out of the fitting. The VP went running and he never went back there again.

 

[anythingyoucanimagine]

Propress is the way to go. No flux, no solder, and no heat.

I'd have to sell my first-born for one of those tools I'll stick with "sweating" (see that, no mention of solder or brazing)


Unless the price has come down, I believe those tools are in the $2,500-$5k range correct?

 

[BD1]

I'd have to sell my first-born for one of those tools I'll stick with "sweating" (see that, no mention of solder or brazing)





Unless the price has come down, I believe those tools are in the $2,500-$5k range correct?

Many suppliers will loan you the tool with fitting purchase, they do by me. I'm Union and buy from them.



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[MoonRise]

Braze not solder, Page #2 under "Copper Piping" :

http://www.hitachi-america.us/ice/w...chi-compressed-air-piping-recommendations.pdf

Copper.org document on copper piping/tubing :

https://www.copper.org/publications/pub_list/pdf/copper_tube_handbook.pdf

example state 'code' for pressure piping, copper air pipe MUST be brazed and not soldered (or it can be welded, or threaded, or flanged)

https://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=296-24-68207

Oh, and btw, for air piping you are supposed to use Type K or Type L copper. Page #63 of the copper.org document and also in the state code example.

 

[johninct]

Make sure your copper pipe has never been used if you ever want to do painting.

 

[Wrench97]

5/8" or 3/4" air brake tubing works well also.

 

[BillK]

My business is all plumbed in copper. No issues at all. 3/4" long runs with 1/2" drops. Been that way for 20 years.

 

[Jazz1]

Make sure your copper pipe has never been used if you ever want to do painting.

I paint autos and shop is all plumbed with copper. What issue? I like that that the air is cooled via copper on its way to moisture trap before entering air hose.

 

[ford33]

I have 3/4" copper and it works great. I would do it again.

Make sure you slope the pipe so water will run to a low point or points and then put in a valve to drain water from the low point.

 

[mrobins297aaa]

Don't braze those joints unless you have a setup to flow nitrogen threw the piping system while you are brazing, if braze without it it will leave a lot of black **** on the inside that will flake off.
use a solder like Harris stray-Brite #8, you can use a regular propane torch and its just as strong as a brazed joint.

 

[SALIV8]

Copper is the best. Imo.

I have black iron with filters only because it is in my garage and I was afraid of impact issues.

 

[PoorOwner]

Could get expensive. Store wants $3.28 for a tee. Making a stick at $22 seem like a bargain. I usually buy the fittings online.

 

[metlmunchr]

Don't braze those joints unless you have a setup to flow nitrogen threw the piping system while you are brazing, if braze without it it will leave a lot of black **** on the inside that will flake off.
use a solder like Harris stay-Brite #8, you can use a regular propane torch and its just as strong as a brazed joint.

Good advice here. Stay Brite #8 is unlike any other soft solder on the market as far as both strength and ease of use. And yeah, silphos and other brazing alloys will cause a bunch of oxidation on the ID of the tubing unless you flow a gas to exclude oxygen while making the joints.

This sheet https://www.copper.org/applications/plumbing/cth/select-tube/cth_2select_recom.html copywrite 2019 lists K,L, and M as acceptable for compressed air, depending on operating pressures and temps.

A lot of building codes tend to stay years behind current material availability. For example, the WA code referenced previously mentions wrought iron pipe repeatedly, and wrought iron pipe has not been commercially available in the US for over 50 years. By the same token, if grandpaw used silphos on air lines, then that's the only acceptable method of making joints on copper today, current materials with superior workability and equal strength be damned.

Regardless of piping system materials, its always a good idea to make the connection from the compressor tank to the piping system with a hose such that you isolate the piping from compressor vibration.

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

Braze not solder, Page #2 under "Copper Piping" :

http://www.hitachi-america.us/ice/w...chi-compressed-air-piping-recommendations.pdf

Copper.org document on copper piping/tubing :

https://www.copper.org/publications/pub_list/pdf/copper_tube_handbook.pdf

example state 'code' for pressure piping, copper air pipe MUST be brazed and not soldered (or it can be welded, or threaded, or flanged)

https://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=296-24-68207

Oh, and btw, for air piping you are supposed to use Type K or Type L copper. Page #63 of the copper.org document and also in the state code example.

Who the hell let O.H.S.A. in the door???

 

[gungatim]

Who the hell let O.H.S.A. in the door???

ayuh, first link is just a white paper with recommendations from Hitachi. 2nd one is just a handbook and makes no recommendations.

3rd one is for code in Washington, like CA, does not apply to the real world, and is for industrial gas piping systems....

nice links, but none of it applies to us homeowners...

 

[nadogail]

The biggest downside to using copper is that somebody will be tempted to rip it out and sell it for drugs.

 

[driftpin]

The biggest downside to using copper is that somebody will be tempted to rip it out and sell it for drugs.

-From Coronado CA-

I see where you live, can't you just sic some SEAL trainees on the crackheads, when they show up?

Getting ready to upgrade my compressor, hoping to sell my current portable 30 gallon Campbell Hausfeld 10 SCFM/90 PSI, 240 V to a veteran and to invest the proceeds & more $$ into a better, more SCFM system, already have the 240 V single phase. Hopefully, tomorrow is the day to divest/invest, and then rest.

 

[ttpete]

5/8" or 3/4" air brake tubing works well also.

That's what I did. Used 5/8" and it's flexible and can be run like romex through holes in studs or joists. It uses special wedding band fittings with metal inserts.

 

[sberry]

Yes, that comp can do work but an upgrade from there would not be overkill for a serious shop guy. The real benchmark is 5 hp and 2 stage. You can do a lot of work with way less unit but that will do all the work you can. You can sand as much as you want. Recovery is fast so its not running all the time, noise.

 

[sberry]

The thing about t is unlike water takes 2 of everything it takes only 1 here. Not every section of line needs to be big and air isn't so like electric with gobs of parasitic items connected. Lotso places could get by with a reel or 2, a t after the regulator in some cases, I have 2 whips and a couple reels, another at the paint booth from 1 regulator.
I don't have hydrants every few ft, I got a hose reel plumbed on, the user never has to move the inlet from one to the next, even the hoses screwed to regulators and only disconnect is as a true disconnect or at the end of the hose connecting to the tool. Don't have to charge any hoses, do not have to discharge any charged hoses.
As for reduction in pipe sizes, a branch and t is good for really long runs as it carrys most of the distance on a large branch. It carries it better than a home run of smaller pipe. When 2 items are used at the same time then a home run is similar. As I mention not always needed to plumb 3/4 way over to a reel gonna service tire air, 1/2 is adequate and runs 100 ft of air gun wide open, will even run some 3/4 air gun especially at distance less than 100 ft.
Lotso plummin in copper all done with elbows, home run and direct to filter without drip leg, only need it if you need it.
I watch my bud plumb in a replacement boiler, sized up the room and instead of saving a couple inches made it all reach and use a common elbow vs a street, very few t and very few specialty fittings cost 3 bucks. Also way simpler planning, needed 2 adapters, 2 t a couple valves, 2 sticks of pipe and a box of elbows.

 

[sberry]

I got a **** load of copper where a diy amateur bought for a job and had a fist full of every fitting they ever invented. I wishin I had it before I did last air job.