Draft inducer blower motor bearings are loose

[sdowney717]

so the motor jams and cant spin.
It is a very expensive part for a LENNOX gas furnace
around $600 locally

http://www.cozyparts.com/lennox-parts/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=47H12

looking at the old part it is 1.2 amp 3000 rpm 115 volt motor
which looks like this
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000A7I65E/?tag=atomicindus08-20

except for the shaft being too short the price would be great.

Does anyone think it could be made to work? Or another idea rather than dropping $600 on this old furnace?

 

[claymont]

Have you tried oiling the bearings?

 

[sdowney717]

no, but they are worn side to side.
So the motor just humms and does not spin.
It spins very freely when no power is applied.
If you grab the shaft it has side to side play, so It must when enrgized pull to one side and it throws off the magnetic pulsing and then can spin.

 

[claymont]

Just cost you a couple minutes time to give it a try. Even if it's doing what you're saying, a little less friction might allow it to spin on its own. I just might be saying this from experience

 

[sdowney717]

this motor is very very very cheaply made. The bearing end supports are epoxied onto the laminations, not thru bolted, so you can even take it apart to look at it. I suppose it is meant to be thrown away not repaired.



I am sorely tempted to get that motor fabricate a mounting and make it work and save $500.
The shaft does not look to be a standard diameter like 1/4 inch, it is smaller maybe metric. If I used another motor, I could drill out the blower hole.

It uses a plain bearing and it has worn its groove as the gravity would be pulling downward on the blower. So when holding it as mounted in the furnace, it is loose when pulled up and down but not right to left.

 

[sdowney717]

For only $85, something like this might work. Might have rework the mounts
All it has to do is attach to the furnace and then attach to the exhaust pipe
Blow the air
And have those rubber air tubes hooked into the side.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000NLX53U/?tag=atomicindus08-20

mine has a tubing mount bolted into the output side that measures the air pressure when the fan spins. This one looks like you could cut the rectangular hole to mount them. And also it would need the square mounting flange for the exhaust pipe attached to the output of the blower.

 

[sdowney717]

also here is a long shaft motor with the same power, CCW and rpm
shaft diameter is different as is the mounting but might make it work.

for about $30

http://compare.ebay.com/like/400098...ee9130b&itemid=400098296139&ff4=263602_304662

 

[rickairmedic]

This is why I dont recomend Lennox . That part on any other make of furnace would be around $300.00 - $350.00 installed.


Rick

 

[Gary S]

I've taken apart some of that style small motors when they failed, and many of them don't even have bearings in them. You might find simple bushings instead of bearings, so they can be short lived.

 

[sdowney717]

I bought the ebay motor for $30 and will see how it goes.
Big range online for the price of this part

some prices, max I found was $679.10

Locally Art Newsome
$591.00

http://www.furnaceparts.com/Search.aspx?q=47H12
$321.54

http://www.americanhvacparts.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?
$439

http://www.expertappliance.com/partfinder.php
$545

http://www.midwesthvacparts.com/Products/105-inducer-motor-assembly-lennox-47h12.aspx
$439

http://www.discountfurnacefilter.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=47H12
$500

http://www.pexsupply.com/Lennox-47H12-Inducer-Motor-Assembly
$419.9

http://www.hvacplus.com/search/47H12/p-1/
$679.10

 

[rickairmedic]

Just remember one important factor as you do this . This assembly is what removes the bad gases out of your furnace and sends them outside . Any leaks in this system will not be good for your or your families health so make sure you seal things well with a high heat sealant.


Rick

 

[cowboyjosh]

Just remember one important factor as you do this . This assembly is what removes the bad gases out of your furnace and sends them outside . Any leaks in this system will not be good for your or your families health so make sure you seal things well with a high heat sealant.


Rick

Im hijacking a thread again.

I too don't like Lennox. As a homebuilder I've had less claims with GOODMAN furnaces inside the 2 year warranty then I have had in the past with LENNOX. LENNOX was a nightmare when we were installing them on new builds, some of my competitors still use them and more then 1 of their homeowners have told me they have had many furnace and air conditioning issues. One thing I dig about the GOODMAN is the COPELAND SCROLL COMPRESSOR. Remember the LENNOX COMPLETE HEAT systems? I installed several of those systems in homes about 10 years ago, every homeowner ended up replacing those systems on their dime within the first 5-6 years because of tank failures. One COMPLETE HEAT actually had a delayed ignition issue and it frickin backfired in the middle of the night, the homeowners called the Fire Department and evacuated the houe thinking that the basement had blown up, there was soot everywhere in that utility room. I feel bad that I ever installed LENNOX, its bitten allot of my homeowners in the *** after the warranty period. Meanwhile my grandparents had a LENNOX Duraglass last almost 35 years!

 

[sdowney717]

taking this thing apart was not easy, They used a thread locker on everything.

the blower wheel where it attaches to the shaft would not budge. Heated, then Pblaster.
Then cut shaft to remove blower wheel. It is a stainless type of hardened steel
Drove out shaft end from blower wheel.
Used Oxy torch to heat blower wheel flange red hot and still the allen headset screw wont budge.
So it is sitting in vinegar.
I might have to drill it out and retap.
The new motor shaft is 1/4 inch so I will have to redrill the center hole.

 

[Cast Iron Nuts]

Hey Cowboy,

I can relate to your comments regarding complete heats and lennox products entirely. I installed 6 complete heat units when they first came out and only one is still in service. Just replaced one 3 months ago took the old unit over to the last guy still in operation and said I have a present for you, your the last man standing you may need some parts off this thing one day or night when its minus 30 outside.

I have said this before and ill say it again Carrier is far more superior to anything on the market.

Oh and BTW sdowney good luck drilling out that hub if its not center she s gonna vibrate

 

[rickairmedic]

I have sold Trane until they quit using the climatuff back around 99-2000 . Then I went to Carrier till they started having control board issues . I am a Goodman Goodcare dealer now and have been quite happy with them . Actually sold them all the way back to the Trane days as my cheaper units . Goodman is the only manufacturer out there who hasnt told me I had to pay for the HONOR to sell their equipment and they are also the only company that will sell me a 10 year parts and labor warranty ( for my customers ) for $99.00 per piece of equipment. Lennox I have never been fond of due to their parts prices and most likely never will be . Sbdowney the bad news is you may be buying a lower wheel for that fan induction assembly as well usually when they are that stuck its easier than fighting to get it apart.


Rick

 

[sdowney717]

can you get the blower wheel by itself?
anyone have a part number?

the replacement motor came in and I managed to make it fit by creating a new bracket and tapping 2 holes into the new motor as part of the aluminum mounting bracket which they had not tapped.
Also the rotation was CW and I reversed so it is now CCW. And the new motor shaft was the same diameter as the old motor shaft.

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/archive/index.php/t-576502.html

The blower wheel was thoroughly stuck including the set screw. I managed to drill out the set screw, but the tap snapped off in the hole. Bummer, so I took a oxy torch and melted it out but in the process ruined the center hole.
I managed to redrill it out and I think it is centered but it is too big for the shaft.
I was thinking I might be able to use jbweld or a bushing that would fit the shaft to get it lined up again.
I drilled a new hole on the other side and tapped it for a set screw.

 

[sdowney717]

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003RX3MZC/?tag=atomicindus08-20

how about this wheel? What i need is dimensions and rotation to see if it fits.

 

[sdowney717]

http://www.hvacpartsshop.com/28g01--inducerblowerwheel.aspx
I think I found one. It looks the same as my old one.
What do you think?

 

[rickairmedic]

Looks like that one will work as long as the diameter , depth and rotation are the same it should be fine.


Rick

 

[sdowney717]

My current wheel is 4.5" by 1" with a smaller than 1/4 inch hole, 3/16 maybe??

found out it is not the same according to the local Lennox dealer.
I had them call lennox to find out what the sizes are.
Lennox guy went and talked to the technical support people on thier end and flat out said wrong size wont fit. Refused to give the size of that part and said you must buy the entire assembly.
I tried calling myself earlier and they refused to tell me anything about these part numbers saying you must have a local lennox dealer call them.

 

[rickairmedic]

LOL yep pretty much standard Lennox BS my favorite is when I call them to verify a model number and even they are not sure what it is . Lennox had a major issue for years with their model numbers on AC units . The standard in the industry is 12,000 BTU's = a ton of AC therefore generaly model numbers will have a number in them that you can divide by 12 IE CFT30WRT100A would be a 2&1/2 ton unit but nooooooooo. Lennox likes to use random numbers like 41 or 38 and even they are not sure half the time if its a 3 or 4 ton unit . I would say if you measured your wheel just find one with the same dimensions and rotation and you should be fine . Also when the time comes to replace your furnace remember all this **** .


Rick

 

[rickairmedic]

OH yeah dont trust the local Lemmon dealer either call the company with the wheel and see if the size and rotation are the same as yours if so order it .


Rick

 

[rickairmedic]

One more thing if you have a Johnstone supply in your area " you dont list your location " take the old one to them they can most likely match it up .

Rick

 

[sdowney717]

I am in Newport News, VA near Norfolk. And we do have one local.
Yes thanks worth trying.
Other way is perhaps a machine shop could recenter and repair the hole.
I dont have a drill press so if I repaired and recentered, then my drill could drill at an angle, then it would wobble.
I managed to get a 5/16 hole centered in the wheel and when I spin with the drill seems pretty smooth. Be nice to have a bushing to pop in there.
http://maps.google.com/maps/place?c...ear=Newport+News,+VA&cid=10374090473339199513

 

[rickairmedic]

OK well if no Johnstone suply look in your yellow pages for HVAC " wholesale suppliers " and give some of them a call you may get lucky with one that will sell to you . Locally Johnstone , SWH , United Refrigeration , R.E.Michels and of course Grainger will sell parts like that to just about anybody.

Rick

 

[rickairmedic]

Give these guys a shot if they give ya trouble let me know and I will get my Buddy same company locally to give em a call for you .

RE Michel CO Inc
Not Rated | Write a Review
2735 Ellsmere Ave, Norfolk, VA 23513

(757) 855-2011



Rick

 

[BillK]

You know guys, As much as I am a "fix everything" type guy, if the draft blower motor on my gas furnace gave it up, I would be buying a new one from the oem. Sorry but my family's safety is just too important to me. If I had to get the entire unit for $600, so be it. Plus to be honest with you, I dont like the idea of it failing on a 20 degree night and having to try to fix it under emergency conditions.

Since you brought it up, mine has been getting a little noisy lately, I just put it on the list of things to look at and maybe lubricate this weekend

Just my opinion,

 

[Mike007]

Just some thoughts on repairing draft inducers, make sure the new motor ratings and the wheel dimensions and pitch are 100% identical. They have a direct effect on combustion. And in regard to Lennox not selling the wheel, thats most likely because they buy the entire assembly as a UL Approved assembly from a company like Fasco. It may not be considered serviceable because doing so will void the UL Approval. Some draft inducers come with the wheel actually crimped on making it 100% unservicable for that reason. And there are some where the motor and wheel are off the shelf parts.

 

[sdowney717]

I fixed it and it is working.
I drilled out the center to 5/16
brazed in a short section bronze or brass pipe from an old propane torch

put it in a drill press and drilled it perfectly at a 90 degree angle.

It runs smooth.
So my cost was the price of the ebay fasco motor $29 plus maybe $2 worth oxy acetylene gas and brazing rod. plus a dollar for a pack of bolts and my time fabricating a bracket etc...

close up of wheel showing bronze pipe bushing

assembly all together

here it is running and sucking up $400 worth of NG a month

 

[rickairmedic]

Good deal Downey now get that furnace running gotta be getting cold in there with no heat for a week . Oh yeah and if you dont have one go get a carbon monoxide detector . Best deal I have seen in my area is Homey Desperate $29.99 for a pack with a carbon monoxide detector and a smoke alarm in the same package .


Rick

 

[sdowney717]

I almost gave up a few times on it.
I did not know you can reverse the motor direction by pulling out the rotor and flipping it around.
It was really just the strangest thing with that set screw, just like it was welded in there.
The house is my father inlaws, just down the street and he is not home right now. It did get cold in there as low as the low 30's a few times. I pretty much fix as much as I can for them and I do charge by the hour. But still it saves them a fair amount of money.

 

[rickairmedic]

Well after 10 or so years of being subjected to that much heat it pretty much is welded in there . I have almost always had to replace the wheel when working on an older unit that the supplier only sells the new motor not the whole inducer unit as 9 out of 10 times the wheel doesnt come off .

Rick

 

[sdowney717]

This has me wondering about my own NG furnace which is from 1973.
I use it only for emergency heat and thought about getting a more modern efficient one that uses the electric spark and blower inducer. BUT, after this mini fiasco, makes me appreciate my old furnace and my heating costs when compared are basically the same for the same size house. I think mine is a Johnson 115,000 btu.
Only thing I had to do in 20 years was replace the main blower motor that moves the air and I had a motor sitting in a Carrier furnace someone tossed out that I used.

That Carrier furnace looked like new, heat exchanger not a bit of rust on it, except it would need a repair to the NG regulator. Looks like someone broke off part of it. It has a fairly large circuit board in it and the blower motor was variable I think 3 speed.
Seem to recall some aluminum cover that was screwed on top was all it needed.
I called around when I picked it up and was told the parts were available but he would not sell to me since I dont have a license to work on them?
So I kept it in the garage.

 

[rickairmedic]

Your furnace is probably an 80% furnace and that is still the baseline standard today although they do go as high as 97% . I would say if your old one is mainly for backup heat then keep it as long as you can . I was actually discussing this with a customer earlier today as he said he used to work on his own furnaces to which I noted that back then there were 3 main parts to go bad . Gas valve, Thermocoupler and blower motor . Today with the computers and everything else theres 100+ parts in a modern furnace that can go bad .

Rick

 

[sdowney717]

yes, it is a backup to the heat pump. I ran it only one week at the peak of a cold spell and it used 100$ worth of NG. Typically my electric bill in winter is about $200 and that month ran to $240.
I turn off the pilot and only light it when it gets really cold. So most of the time it is off.
I used to worry about it rusting out and sucking in CO, I read though that when they crack open, the internal air pressure inside the heat exchanger which is developed by the blower, wants to blow outwards so the main concern is some kind of fire. Flames can come out of the unit?

 

[rickairmedic]

Yes a cracked heat exchanger can cause Flame rollout . That honestly isnt as bad as it sounds " most of the time " . The real issue with a cracked heat exchanger is Carbon Monoxide getting into the air stream and going through the ductwork and out the vents . I have seen some severe cases of Flame rollout but most are just a **** and its over . This is why I highly recomend to anyone with gas appliances ( furnace,water heater,oven etc. ) buy a carbon monoxide detector and install it in the master bedroom or nearest hallway to the master.


Rick

 

[sdowney717]

My parents have a propane ventless fireplace log set. What I dont understand is how those things are legal seeing they burn either propane or NG and they dont vent out the chimney so all the gas comes into the room.

 

[Habrot]

this motor is very very very cheaply made. The bearing end supports are epoxied onto the laminations, not thru bolted, so you can even take it apart to look at it. I suppose it is meant to be thrown away not repaired.



I am sorely tempted to get that motor fabricate a mounting and make it work and save $500.
The shaft does not look to be a standard diameter like 1/4 inch, it is smaller maybe metric. If I used another motor, I could drill out the blower hole.

It uses a plain bearing and it has worn its groove as the gravity would be pulling downward on the blower. So when holding it as mounted in the furnace, it is loose when pulled up and down but not right to left.

The first 90s (1 inducer) were either made by Preway or Heil Inducers are available from Trane or Heil suppliers. The newest 90 had an intake ventor and an inducer. Never seen one in person so don't know what to tell you there. The Gasaver II and CTL 80% models are the Fasco A118 inducer.

If you are the homeowner, you may have trouble finding a wholesaler who will sell to you but give this info to your dealer.