Drafter vs Architect?

[nc.detail]

Curious on suggestions if an architect is worth the extra cost over a drafter.

We're under contract on land and starting to thumb through house designs with our builder. We've reached out to a couple architects and our realtor referred us to the drafter she used for their custom home.

Drafter wants $0.30 sqft vs ~$2 a sq ft from the few architects we've talked to.

In terms of the house, our current plans are nothing crazy and I feel we can cobble together a plan by tweaking an existing one from the hundreds of available plans on line. Modern Farmhouse (<4k sq ft), pool, 3 car attached, 1k sq ft detached for added context.

What say you, GJ?

PFA
M-4514-WC-FRONT-VIEW by Larry Bishop, on Flickr

 

[Chris705]

Won’t you need stamped plans to get a building permit? Have you talked to an architect yet? In my early days the architect I worked for would often perform plan reviews and do minor revisions to plans purchased from plan houses for considerably less than drawing plans from scratch. A drafter can probably do a good job if replicating a floor plan you give him specific direction on..... but in order to perform a code review, energy analysis & stamp the plans you need a licensed architect.

 

[duneslider]

Here is my take on this as I am in the process right now.

Part of my job function is drafting, I am a Project Manager for an automation company. I do a lot of our designs when we get busy and the engineers are swamped.

I am building a house right now, foundation is in. Since I am familiar with Autocad I have been drawing my house and tweaking, etc for a year or so. Once we put money down on a lot I started looking for an architect. My wife has an old high school friend that is an architect and we sent a pdf over to her to look at to get a bid and she said it all looked good and told us to just finish it up and send it to an engineer. I was a little surprised by that.

Anyway, here is what I now know. Architects do NOT stamp drawings, engineers do. If you have a floor plan and need plans drawn a drafter can certainly do everything that is needed to get it to an engineer to be stamped.

I did take a few architectural drafting classes in high school and college so I have a fair bit of residential drafting background and I have a degree in building construction, so I am fairly familiar with the construction process and codes. My plans came back from the city with a handful of missing items, red lines, questions, etc, mostly due to code changes that had happened since I was working residential construction. I made corrections and sent them back and they were approved.

If you don't know what you want and need a designer (architect) or you are doing some funky, cool, crazy stuff, or you are in a historic district then I would recommend an architect but if you have a drafter that does residential house plans all the time that would be the ticket. My builder asked me if I want to start doing his custom home plans, its kind of fun so I am considering it.

 

[duneslider]

Also, .30$ a sqft is freaking cheap! That is way less than a drafter in our area. I was seeing about 50% less than architect fees here, so more in the $1.00 range. Also, most architects are above doing the the drafting so they have a drafter doing the drawings anyway.

 

[yeldogt]

It's wants and budget. Custom is relative.

If you are into building --- nothing like hiring a great architect and designing a house. Like getting fine clothes made ... It sounds like you just want to manipulate stock plans?

Good architects provide value ... they take you places you never understood existed. It's the details. If you just want to manipulate a bit you don't need an architect.

It's easy to spend 8% of construction cost with an architect... but, you have something special with a good one.

 

[Jim_No_Garage]

I made a big mistake back around 2001 . . .

I hired an architect to design an addition to my house - expand the kitchen , build a family room in the back and move the dining room to where the family room is now.

I won't reveal how much money we paid them to design something that we never built. My carpenter buddy said that we should have worked with him to get a buildable design and then involve the architect for the actual plans.

We provided exact design criteria that they ignored in the plan and then charged us to rework the plan as originally requested. Bad taste in my mouth 20 years later.

Cheers

Jim

 

[yeldogt]

I made a big mistake back around 2001 . . .

I hired an architect to design an addition to my house - expand the kitchen , build a family room in the back and move the dining room to where the family room is now.

I won't reveal how much money we paid them to design something that we never built. My carpenter buddy said that we should have worked with him to get a buildable design and then involve the architect for the actual plans.

We provided exact design criteria that they ignored in the plan and then charged us to rework the plan as originally requested. Bad taste in my mouth 20 years later.

Cheers

Jim

Sadly -- You hired the wrong person.

 

[wake74]

Architects absolutely seal drawings (hence the term Architect of Record), the statement above is not correct. The legal ability to sell Architectural services is very similar to the the legal ability to perform Engineering services. One must be registered in any state you are either performing services or even proposing to perform services in. Each state has a licensing board that governs the rules for anything from the use of an electronic seal, to if Engineers can seal any discipline or just the discipline for which they passed the PE exam. No different than say a Medical License. To avoid details, lets say I work for one of the top 3 A&E firms in the world, and have held a PE license in most states on the East Coast.

And stories like, I used an Architect once, they were horrible, you don't want to use one is silly. That's like saying, I went to the dentist once, they were bad, so you should just go to the garage, grab the drill, and the soldering iron and fill your own teeth. There are horrible Architects, there are great ones, just like any other discipline.

Whether you should use an Architect or a Designer, depends upon the scope of work. To sketch something simple that doesn't require a permit, a designer should work out fine. Sealed drawings will require an Architect or an engineer if you are talking structural modifications, foundations, etc. The ability for an Architect to seal a foundation drawing, in a residential application will likely vary from state to state. My experience is that many jurisdictions for residential work, treat a stamp (seal) like a stamp, and don't worry about if it comes from an Architect or an Engineer.

 

[964haus]

What Wake ^^ said. x100

 

[Joemctag]

I am in NC like the OP. Last time I checked, an architect is not required for a single family residence, but is for everything else. I’ve actually drawn plans for three people so they could get their permits. They asked me: I didn’t volunteer. I did constr. subcontracting so I knew what a set of plans needed to include. You don’t need a lot of detail if you’re building it yourself. They’re going to hold you to the code on everything anyway. On that last point, there is a LOT to know or study up on if you choose to build yourself.

 

[Cougar]

Architect, Architect, Architect
Built a house in 92.
First talked to an architect, told the builder how much he wanted.
Builder says that's too much, gave me the name of a drafter, much less expensive.
Drafter did a fine job drawing up the plans.
But the architect would have done so much better designing the house.
Regret not going with the architect to this day.
House turned out ok, but so many things that could have been so much better.
I get depressed thinking about it.
You're investing a lot of money, please go with an architect.
We cobbled together a plan, it didn't work, trust me.
Learn from my mistake.

 

[ssdave]

Duneslider, your friend was giving you the "friends and family" brush off. If she's a registered architect, she can stamp plans, but for whatever reason didn't want to. Probably because as she said, they're good enough, she knows that the jurisdiction doesn't require architect stamped plans, and professional rules of responsibility essentially prohibit stamping plans prepared by others, without the design professional being in control of the design throughout the process. She's trying to pass you off onto another professional to either stamp the plans in violation of their licensing, or break the news to you that a professional can't do it that way ethically.

OP, if the house you have in your picture is your nothing crazy plans, and you want to modify them, I'd use an architect instead of a drafter. In that case, the $2 per sf they quoted probably isn't out of line. The $.30 drafter probably wouldn't be able to deliver, or may not deliver the product you want. That is not a "nothing crazy" plan to work on, it will be complex, difficult, and time consuming to work out and detail.

The offsets and dormers of that picture will require a fair amount of framing detail to make work. I'm not confident that I could work out floor elevations on a real life building that would match the dimensions of that elevation view and would work. On a stock set of plans, all of the expensive detailing is worked out up front, and the cost split among a lot of buyers who buy the plans. Even so, on some stock plans, the details don't work out and have to be modified by the builder or owner to actually be constructible and permitable, particularly if your local codes or wind or snow or heating/cooling load is different. On a custom modification of that plan, you have to pay for all the complexity and the time it takes to modify it.

Even after you get an architect to modify it, they may require you to take it to a structural engineer, at additional cost, to do structural framing plans.

 

[nadogail]

IMHO, Drafter versus Architect is similar to buying a suit "off the rack" or custom cut and sewn.

For me, off the rack fits me close enough to be altered to fit.

 

[duneslider]

Duneslider, your friend was giving you the "friends and family" brush off. If she's a registered architect, she can stamp plans, but for whatever reason didn't want to. Probably because as she said, they're good enough, she knows that the jurisdiction doesn't require architect stamped plans, and professional rules of responsibility essentially prohibit stamping plans prepared by others, without the design professional being in control of the design throughout the process. She's trying to pass you off onto another professional to either stamp the plans in violation of their licensing, or break the news to you that a professional can't do it that way ethically.

OP, if the house you have in your picture is your nothing crazy plans, and you want to modify them, I'd use an architect instead of a drafter. In that case, the $2 per sf they quoted probably isn't out of line. The $.30 drafter probably wouldn't be able to deliver, or may not deliver the product you want. That is not a "nothing crazy" plan to work on, it will be complex, difficult, and time consuming to work out and detail.

The offsets and dormers of that picture will require a fair amount of framing detail to make work. I'm not confident that I could work out floor elevations on a real life building that would match the dimensions of that elevation view and would work. On a stock set of plans, all of the expensive detailing is worked out up front, and the cost split among a lot of buyers who buy the plans. Even so, on some stock plans, the details don't work out and have to be modified by the builder or owner to actually be constructible and permitable, particularly if your local codes or wind or snow or heating/cooling load is different. On a custom modification of that plan, you have to pay for all the complexity and the time it takes to modify it.

Even after you get an architect to modify it, they may require you to take it to a structural engineer, at additional cost, to do structural framing plans.

This might all be true somewhere but not everywhere. I have never seen an architect stamp "regular" residential drawings but all the architects I work with on the commercial side have in house structural engineers who certainly do stamp the structural drawings. In my state the city requires a structural engineer stamp on all plans but doesn't require an architect stamp on anything. I could see there being some architects stamping really nice high end special stuff but I can also guarantee you will see a structural engineer's stamp too.

We talked with 3 different architects and a couple engineers before we made our final decision. One architect was a small one man show and had good pricing but sent it to an engineer but he did all drafting and would take our layout and massage it a bit. The other was slightly bigger and used a drafter to do a lot of the drawing once the "layout" was finalized and also sent it out for structural calcs. The last was the friend of my wife and she owns a pretty nice firm and they have several in house architects, a landscape architect, and in house engineering services. She said she would be fine to do a code check on the plan and have their engineer do the engineering but their pricing was a fair bit higher than others. We weren't asking for any freebies and all the architects we talked to were more than happy to take our money and work with the layout we had. Our builder has an in house "interior designer" and she was a big help in making some good tweaks to the design.

Based on the front view of that house, it doesn't look that difficult to me. I even bet that upper most middle dormer is an overbuild on the roof with nothing but roof behind it.

I work with enough architects on the commercial side that I know they can provide value to a project but for "regular" residential projects a good builder and designer will do just great. Have you seen the plans most framers are given on most residential jobs? The wizards are the framers! Unless it is a high end home framers don't have a whole lot to go on like they do on the commercial side.

 

[ssdave]

duneslider, Utah is a different world when it comes to commercial practice; I know, I've been licensed and practiced there. The weird underground economy system that operates in the background is totally different than anywhere else I've practiced or done construction/construction management.

I don't think it's any coincidence that you don't see the architects not stamping the plans, there's pretty strict licensing laws about the standard of care needed if they affix their stamp to it. The architects accommodate residential clients with lower budget by giving advice, doing code checks, etc, but don't risk their license and E&O insurance by stamping plans prepared by someone else. The engineers are careful to only stamp the plans for their specific part, that were done under their direct control.

Your observation on the dormer being fake and not serving a room is exactly what I was referring to when I said I wouldn't be able to make the floors come out in those dimensions. That picture reminds me of a lot of the fake facade houses I saw in Utah, there's huge tracts of them I saw being built in the early 2000's in the Layton and Ogden area with complex rooflines and dormers and gables over a single story box, or single story box and basement.

I can assure you that many, many areas of the US won't allow the framers to be doing the design on the fly, I've been licensed and practiced in 6 states, and most permitting/inspecting offices do a thorough, detailed review of the structural aspects of the framing, and won't approve plans until they are detailed and correct, and will reject work that doesn't match the plans.

As a consultant and design professional working for the owners, I had to often condemn work that had been approved by city and county inspectors in Utah, for basic stuff like lack of continuous load path, improper splicing, lack of fire stops, lack of blocking, lack of tie-downs and clips, insufficient shear paneling and nailing, insufficient fire protection, lack of air sealing and insulation, lack of flashing and water protection, etc. At the same time, the same inspectors that were overlooking work by some contractors would be nitpicking others enough to put them out of business. As I said above, there's a very unusual subculture economy in Utah that affects many aspects of design and construction. And a lot of design professionals, inspectors and city officials moonlighted on the side doing unpermitted work. Has any of that changed? I haven't practiced there since 2005.

 

[duneslider]

duneslider, Utah is a different world when it comes to commercial practice; I know, I've been licensed and practiced there. The weird underground economy system that operates in the background is totally different than anywhere else I've practiced or done construction/construction management.

I don't think it's any coincidence that you don't see the architects not stamping the plans, there's pretty strict licensing laws about the standard of care needed if they affix their stamp to it. The architects accommodate residential clients with lower budget by giving advice, doing code checks, etc, but don't risk their license and E&O insurance by stamping plans prepared by someone else. The engineers are careful to only stamp the plans for their specific part, that were done under their direct control.

Your observation on the dormer being fake and not serving a room is exactly what I was referring to when I said I wouldn't be able to make the floors come out in those dimensions. That picture reminds me of a lot of the fake facade houses I saw in Utah, there's huge tracts of them I saw being built in the early 2000's in the Layton and Ogden area with complex rooflines and dormers and gables over a single story box, or single story box and basement.

I can assure you that many, many areas of the US won't allow the framers to be doing the design on the fly, I've been licensed and practiced in 6 states, and most permitting/inspecting offices do a thorough, detailed review of the structural aspects of the framing, and won't approve plans until they are detailed and correct, and will reject work that doesn't match the plans.

As a consultant and design professional working for the owners, I had to often condemn work that had been approved by city and county inspectors in Utah, for basic stuff like lack of continuous load path, improper splicing, lack of fire stops, lack of blocking, lack of tie-downs and clips, insufficient shear paneling and nailing, insufficient fire protection, lack of air sealing and insulation, lack of flashing and water protection, etc. At the same time, the same inspectors that were overlooking work by some contractors would be nitpicking others enough to put them out of business. As I said above, there's a very unusual subculture economy in Utah that affects many aspects of design and construction. And a lot of design professionals, inspectors and city officials moonlighted on the side doing unpermitted work. Has any of that changed? I haven't practiced there since 2005.

I would say it is better than it used to be. It used to be a lot more of the every city had its own "code" where as now it is much more consistent with IBC, usually a couple years behind adopting the most recent but pretty close. Commercial is still much more tightly controlled than residential.

The only thing that I haven't really seen pushed on the residential side in Utah is air sealing, despite it being in the adopted code, it is fairly ignored by everyone. Not sure if this is mainly due to the fact that we have such low energy costs here that it just isn't a huge concern and the fact that the newer building practices and materials just naturally have improved things. I don't think I have ever heard of anyone talking about blower door tests or anything like that. Most of the other things you mentioned really are falling under the structural side of things and that is all inspected very well from what I see. You still have good and bad inspectors, some go over it with a fine tooth comb and others give it a glance and are on their way but I see that on the residential and commercial side.

 

[MushCreek]

Only your local AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction) can tell you what you need in the way of drawings. Where I'm at in upstate SC, they don't even look at your plans. You fill out a form designating the size and number of bedrooms, bathrooms, etc., then build it. After it is built, they want a simple sketch showing the rooms and their respective sizes. In other words, you're on your own when it comes to engineering. All they're interested in is how much to charge you for property taxes.

I designed our very simple house, using Sketch-Up. The walls are ICF, the roof trusses and floor trusses were engineered by the factories building them, and they came with stamped drawings. Everything else was done to meet or exceed building codes. All that being said, I would go with an architect. How you find a 'good' one, I don't know. I guess word-of-mouth, coupled with seeing houses that they have designed would be best. Like any other profession, not all architects are good at their craft.

 

[Tduby]

I hired a drafter that was a retired engineer so he modified my plans and stamped them. It was $800 for CAD plans and $600 for home to modify and stamp them. Original plans didn’t come with any engineer stamp that my local building inspector wanted.

One thing to consider is if you are looking at plans online 99% of the places will modify them for a minor fee and a decent chance they may have the modification you want already done.

 

[Tduby]

I hired a drafter that was a retired engineer so he modified my plans and stamped them. It was $800 for CAD plans and $600 for home to modify and stamp them. Original plans didn’t come with any engineer stamp that my local building inspector wanted.

One thing to consider is if you are looking at plans online 99% of the places will modify them for a minor fee and a decent chance they may have the modification you want already done.

 

[Jlbc212]

I worked part-time for many years as a residential designer, essentially a drafter with a strong background in wood frame construction. As a homeowner I always took a practical look to anything I designed. Most of my clients were ordinary working people looking to get the best value for their money. As such I stirred clients away from architectural details that I knew would result in long-term maintenance headaches and expense. I also maximized practical use of every square foot of space. You would never see a front foyer that extended from the first floor up to the second floor ceiling in one of my plans. Who wants to wash windows inside their house with an extension ladder? When needed I consulted with a structural engineer. There is no simple answer to your question other than to ask for references from past clients of the drafter and the architect.

 

[jbwilkins]

Architect: a person who designs buildings. They should have some ability to envision what a space will look like while it is still on paper, understand structurally how things must be put together, and address conflicts before construction. Note I said “should” some just do not have this skill, or do not want to spend the time to figure it out.

Drafter: makes detailed technical drawings or plans. Typically, they cannot visualize spaces and potential conflicts. You may find one that can, but do not expect it.

A simple one-story home is one thing, and 3D CAD can makes finding conflicts easier, but you can still draw something that cannot be built (or built for a reasonable cost).

I am not saying an architect is a must, but a good one can save you money in the long run with a more efficient design, and make construction go smoother. Redesigning a staircase that was just framed because it doesn’t ‘work’, takes time, money, and can change a ton of things. Oh, and don't expect 'plan check' to catch items like this, they typcially have 'key' items they look for on the plans and that's it.

 

[HPRifleman]

We are currently working on a garage / expanded dwelling project on our home. The village didn't need stamped architect plans for this project so, never using an architect before, we weren't sure if spending the money would be worth it.

We wound up hiring an architect and I am glad we did. The project seems very straightforward but the ideas that the architect brought forward about usability made him worth it. We were the final decision makers but being able to have someone make suggestions on making the project better was great.

The architect charged a flat fee for the project which worked out to $2.28/sq. ft. If I were building a house like yours, I would absolutely hire one. You are buying experience and knowledge regarding how to best tailor your home to you. It's more than just coming up with some drawings.

 

[GMCGarage]

Here is my take on this as I am in the process right now.

Part of my job function is drafting, I am a Project Manager for an automation company. I do a lot of our designs when we get busy and the engineers are swamped.

I am building a house right now, foundation is in. Since I am familiar with Autocad I have been drawing my house and tweaking, etc for a year or so. Once we put money down on a lot I started looking for an architect. My wife has an old high school friend that is an architect and we sent a pdf over to her to look at to get a bid and she said it all looked good and told us to just finish it up and send it to an engineer. I was a little surprised by that.

Anyway, here is what I now know. Architects do NOT stamp drawings, engineers do. If you have a floor plan and need plans drawn a drafter can certainly do everything that is needed to get it to an engineer to be stamped.

I did take a few architectural drafting classes in high school and college so I have a fair bit of residential drafting background and I have a degree in building construction, so I am fairly familiar with the construction process and codes. My plans came back from the city with a handful of missing items, red lines, questions, etc, mostly due to code changes that had happened since I was working residential construction. I made corrections and sent them back and they were approved.

If you don't know what you want and need a designer (architect) or you are doing some funky, cool, crazy stuff, or you are in a historic district then I would recommend an architect but if you have a drafter that does residential house plans all the time that would be the ticket. My builder asked me if I want to start doing his custom home plans, its kind of fun so I am considering it.

In Ohio, an Architect can stamp drawings, with or without an engineers review. They are 'trained' on structural design too. Now, most do have a engineer review, but they still stamp. At least some for residential.

 

[FJ 432]

I work with a CAD monkey who has a side job doing the drafting work for many architects. He goes in and draws existing and many times he's suggests to the architects what will or won't work. He is a serious nuts and bolts guy and knows construction. Architects value his service because he is cheap, reliable and can visualize plans.

Architects do stamp drawings in Denver but in most cases are not needed/required for simple renovations.

 

[yeldogt]

We are currently working on a garage / expanded dwelling project on our home. The village didn't need stamped architect plans for this project so, never using an architect before, we weren't sure if spending the money would be worth it.

We wound up hiring an architect and I am glad we did. The project seems very straightforward but the ideas that the architect brought forward about usability made him worth it. We were the final decision makers but being able to have someone make suggestions on making the project better was great.

The architect charged a flat fee for the project which worked out to $2.28/sq. ft. If I were building a house like yours, I would absolutely hire one. You are buying experience and knowledge regarding how to best tailor your home to you. It's more than just coming up with some drawings.

A good architect provides "value" ... if the end is just to get a set of plans though the governing authority .. that's a different story and lots of people can get you to that finish line.

All to often additions are boxes with widows and doors ....

 

[loganb]

My 2 cents, I work in building material sales so interact with architects frequently and work with their drawings daily but more apts/multifamily/senior living, not residential.

You're investing somewhere in the range of $750k, probably higher when you include land assuming $150/sq ft construction costs for the house at 4k sq ft, $100/sq for the shop(assuming finished interior) and at least another $30k on the pool assuming it's inground and all the landscaping, fencing etc around it. Those are all round numbers....but let's use them for sake of discussion.

If we take the tossed out $2-$2.50 sq ft price for an architect, it's $10k, which for this big of an investment is in my mind ABSOLUTELY worth it...if you hire a good one. Although I don't do residential work in my day job, my company is based on it and my wife is an interior designer so I see lots of house plans and it's appalling some of the layouts that are out there. They need 4k sq ft to make the house livable because ridiculous decisions were made about space planning, room configuration, door locations, traffic flow etc

So here is my suggestion...again take it for what you paid for it....but get an experienced architect you enjoy talking with who does this type of work as their core business, not one the side. If the architect does his/her job they're going to spend time learning about how you live/want to live and what your needs, wants, current frustrations with the existing house are to better understand what you're looking for....it may seem odd but it's important. Review their website and project gallery, ask to see houses under construction their involved in and ask to talk to prior customers, if possibly find folks who are both pretty new to having moved in as well as those who have been in the house for a couple years.

When you find a good one, figure out how to make the budget work. A crappy laid out house, with walls in poor spots and a bad workflow in the kitchen is going to cost you way more than 10k to fix in 5 years. Instead of tightening the "belt" on the structure or bones of the house, if necessary identify interior, cosmetic things you can save some money on that are much easy and more cost effective to update down the road. For example pick a cheaper countertop in the kitchen, cabinet pulls and knobs are stupid spendy when buying a whole house, see what options exist for a more cost effective backsplash, search for other light fixture chocies or maybe hold off on that wetbar in the basement until you live in it for 6 or 12 months and get a better feel of what you want and have space for.

The joy of a well laid out house is going to be enjoyed effortlessly for as long as you're there.....cussing that wall location or the crappy layout in this room or that is going to be with you forever and be costly whether you fix it or not.

 

[yeldogt]

I always recommend asking your local official if there are any retired architects working in the area ..... I have had great experiences going this route. They are often older and very experienced .. know the rules and players --- and the contractors.

My last suburban project a couple years ago was a simple one room addition 16' x 22'-- slab with heated wood floor. It was to expand a space so i could flip a living and dinning room -- hired a local guy that was pushing 80 -- he was fantastic and had lot of great ideas. The main house was brick and this is always a tricky move when adding to them. Older guys have ideas -- they may not be CAD wizards ...most can draw like nobodies business.

Every firm is different ... some big ones have in-house engineers and structural people. The vast majority hire this out when it's complex.

When guys are busy they get picky ....most don't want to work with stock plans past the idea stage.

 

[yeldogt]

A bit more: I hired a well know architect for my new project -- someone I worked with years prior on a similar style project. This is important -- my current project is in his wheelhouse .. I trust him.

It's an expensive remodel and addition of a stone structure. We have about $1.6m into it the construction -- not including the purchase price. I hope that's it. My architect fees are pushing 100k ... We had discussions of what we want out of the property and how we want to use it -- we looked at design details together ..... the house is his design and I gave him freedom to design as he wished. We had very minor revisions ....

The houses is nothing I could have imagined -- that's a good architect. They are not doing the construction management -- some back and forth with the builder --- yes.

 

[nc.detail]

Won’t you need stamped plans to get a building permit? Have you talked to an architect yet? In my early days the architect I worked for would often perform plan reviews and do minor revisions to plans purchased from plan houses for considerably less than drawing plans from scratch. A drafter can probably do a good job if replicating a floor plan you give him specific direction on..... but in order to perform a code review, energy analysis & stamp the plans you need a licensed architect.

Yes, we'll need stamped plans to which the draftsman said he can also do.

 

[Innovate1]

I hired an architectural firm for our house plans 15 years ago - my wife know one of the people there. Pricey but they were professional and designed a custom house with input from us. They did a good job but about $10k as I recall.

Also worked with a drafter recently for a house we didn't end up building (various reasons) and spent about half that before we were done. It was a disaster - he was very disorganized.

In my mind you need an architect if you are interested in how the building looks. For structural things you need an engineer to stamp things. Some people may be able to do both.

If you know what you want and how it will look you don't really need an architect IMHO. But either way you go keep in mind that there are good and bad in every group. A sharp drafter may give you a better looking design than a bad architect.

Where I am for residential I can draw the plans myself and the needed info is very basic. So I did my own for my detached garage. I have a fair amount of carpentry experience and can figure structural loading for basic beams, joists, posts, etc (there are free calculators that make that easier) but that wasn't really needed for the simple building.

 

[nc.detail]

A bit more: I hired a well know architect for my new project -- someone I worked with years prior on a similar style project. This is important -- my current project is in his wheelhouse .. I trust him.

It's an expensive remodel and addition of a stone structure. We have about $1.6m into it the construction -- not including the purchase price. I hope that's it. My architect fees are pushing 100k ... We had discussions of what we want out of the property and how we want to use it -- we looked at design details together ..... the house is his design and I gave him freedom to design as he wished. We had very minor revisions ....

The houses is nothing I could have imagined -- that's a good architect. They are not doing the construction management -- some back and forth with the builder --- yes.

Sounds incredible! Let's see some pics

 

[nc.detail]

My 2 cents, I work in building material sales so interact with architects frequently and work with their drawings daily but more apts/multifamily/senior living, not residential.

You're investing somewhere in the range of $750k, probably higher when you include land assuming $150/sq ft construction costs for the house at 4k sq ft, $100/sq for the shop(assuming finished interior) and at least another $30k on the pool assuming it's inground and all the landscaping, fencing etc around it. Those are all round numbers....but let's use them for sake of discussion.

If we take the tossed out $2-$2.50 sq ft price for an architect, it's $10k, which for this big of an investment is in my mind ABSOLUTELY worth it...if you hire a good one. Although I don't do residential work in my day job, my company is based on it and my wife is an interior designer so I see lots of house plans and it's appalling some of the layouts that are out there. They need 4k sq ft to make the house livable because ridiculous decisions were made about space planning, room configuration, door locations, traffic flow etc

So here is my suggestion...again take it for what you paid for it....but get an experienced architect you enjoy talking with who does this type of work as their core business, not one the side. If the architect does his/her job they're going to spend time learning about how you live/want to live and what your needs, wants, current frustrations with the existing house are to better understand what you're looking for....it may seem odd but it's important. Review their website and project gallery, ask to see houses under construction their involved in and ask to talk to prior customers, if possibly find folks who are both pretty new to having moved in as well as those who have been in the house for a couple years.

When you find a good one, figure out how to make the budget work. A crappy laid out house, with walls in poor spots and a bad workflow in the kitchen is going to cost you way more than 10k to fix in 5 years. Instead of tightening the "belt" on the structure or bones of the house, if necessary identify interior, cosmetic things you can save some money on that are much easy and more cost effective to update down the road. For example pick a cheaper countertop in the kitchen, cabinet pulls and knobs are stupid spendy when buying a whole house, see what options exist for a more cost effective backsplash, search for other light fixture chocies or maybe hold off on that wetbar in the basement until you live in it for 6 or 12 months and get a better feel of what you want and have space for.

The joy of a well laid out house is going to be enjoyed effortlessly for as long as you're there.....cussing that wall location or the crappy layout in this room or that is going to be with you forever and be costly whether you fix it or not.

I appreciate the response. Your estimates are pretty reasonable to the figures we've discussed w/ the builder. I'm all about efficiency.

 

[Innovate1]

Yes, we'll need stamped plans to which the draftsman said he can also do.

Our draftsman had a connection to a civil engineer that stamped his plans.

Do your homework on whoever you decide to hire. Lots of people that talk a good line but their work doesn't match their talk.

 

[LOW1]

It depends a lot on how good the architect is.

I would expect an architect to do things that a draftsman would not think of, such as placing windows where they get the best light and making good use of the topography of the land. A draftsman may not even visit the site. Its these sort of things which make a house special.

And don't keep your builder out of the design process - if he/she is experienced they should have many good practical suggestions.

 

[nc.detail]

It depends a lot on how good the architect is.

I would expect an architect to do things that a draftsman would not think of, such as placing windows where they get the best light and making good use of the topography of the land. A draftsman may not even visit the site. Its these sort of things which make a house special.

And don't keep your builder out of the design process - if he/she is experienced they should have many good practical suggestions.

Correct, the draftsman is helping via email and phone calls. The builder has been very helpful all along, walked all the prospective lots and gave us a tour of his modern fh and workshop.

 

[Bigblockyeti]

If you're modifying existing plans, a draftsman would be the way to go, you'll get a chance to see what the elevation before ground is broken giving the opportunity for additional modifications until you're happy before building. Given the aesthetic design is essential already complete, I'd be far more interested in having an engineer look it over and confirm it's actually built well vs. just to code. If you ask an architect for L480 deflection for a stiffer floor vs. the designed L240 (or whatever other minimum to code the plan might be) you might get a deer in the headlights look, if you ask a PE, they will know or they will be looking for a different job.

 

[Cypress]

As an Architect, I thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread.

 

[Apeatwo]

As a long time residential designer, if the house pictured is any indication of your intent, I would recommend hiring an experienced architect/designer. The vast majority of drafters, especially those working at $.30/ft, will be in over their heads with that project.

Personally, I'm on the tail end of completing my modern farmhouse build (similar in spec to what you're looking for) and, while I've got a lot more gray hair now, the result is well worth it.

 

[Rsharp66]

When I did my garage rebuild I had a 3D model sketch of what I thought I wanted. The Architect came back with a sketch of that and a sketch of her idea which duplicated all the features of the main house. Looked 500% better and just seemed like it fit instead of the hack job i thought I wanted. Some of the best money I have spent.

From her drawings we then went to an Engineer who did the detail drawings. Both sets were stamped and then used for the permit and inspections. Thats what they wanted here in Raleigh but my guess is the engineers drawing was the critical approval.

 

[Bigblockyeti]

. . . . .but my guess is the engineers drawing was the critical approval.

Even in the pickiest of areas, the AHJ is going to care more about someone being killed in a poorly designed structure than living safely in an ugly structure.