Drafter vs Architect?

[dcg9381]

I dunno. Around here, you can build a house off a napkin drawing (literally). I work with a GC who has a degree in architecture and is an excellent draftsman, but the actual engineering of the house in terms of trusses, joists, etc - that all goes off to a structural engineer via the suppliers who want to sell trusses, joists, etc.

 

[duneslider]

As an Architect, I thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread.

I always find these sorts of threads interesting. I would venture the vast majority of the users of this forum (Garage Journal) are pretty well entrenched in the DIY lifestyle. I can talk all day about building cars in my badass garage, burning metal together looking like perfect stacks of dimes, building amazing works of art with wood, all while not being an ASE Master mechanic, or a certified welder, or a member of the carpenters union and its all good but someone mentions they might attempt a home design without an architect and its obviously going to look like **** and is a terrible idea because ONLY an architect can do a good job. Now, don't get me wrong, I love architects just like I love master mechanics, certified welders, and Union Carpenters but at the end of the day if a regular Joe can learn to turn a wrench pretty good, or lay a nice bead joining a couple pieces of steel together, or pull art out of rough timbers why can't a guy do a good job designing his own home?

Sure, if we were all doing 2million dollar remodels it would probably be wise to use an architect. I wonder why 98% of the homes in America are designed and built without the use of an Architect? Maybe one of the architects that is "enjoying" this thread could chime in and help us understand why Architects seem "irrelevant" to 98% of the country? It seems like only the upper 2% of the people in America find value in an architect's services, or can afford it?

For goodness sakes, there are TV shows about how awesome houses made of shipping containers are, and tiny houses on trailers! Yet how dare middle America live in a poorly designed fairly good looking house drawn by a lowly drafter!

Anyway, maybe a little passive aggressive but really, why should the other 98% of the country be interested in paying an architect? Emoji added to show I'm not a hater. I really am curious what happened to the profession that created such a huge disconnect between the profession and the American people? Why does my builder want to pay me to draw his houses and not an architect?

 

[loganb]

Curious....why do you think 98% of the houses in the US are built without an architect? The biggest single family builders....KB Homes, Pulte, Lennar, Toll Brothers, Horton etc who in some markets put out 75% or more of the new construction builds....do you really think they build all of those units without an architect ever involved??

Just because someone personally didn't talk with one on their house, doesn't mean that an architect wasn't involved when the plans were being created?

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[bushmechanic]

Well, I'm going to hire one to pour over my shipping container house plans, get them where they need to be to do what I want, and potentially come up with a few neat ideas I hadn't considered.

Whatever I have done here won't likely be of legal use where it's built, but it'll be a damned sight easier to adjust what's required quickly, and it'll stop me from engaging in too much feature creep.

If I get really interested in a property with different climate, regulations, or terrain features, I've got a completed plan that can be adjusted.

I'd do the same in a normal house, because more eyes are better once something is considered safe. I've got two doors in my place right now that interfere with one another when operated at the same time.

If the ****** who built the place had someone look over what was happening before it happened, a person like an architect might have immediately spotted such a glaring issue in layout.

Might not have. At the very least, along with the lawyer and everyone else involved, it's one more meat shield between me and any problems that might occur down the road for whatever reason.

 

[LeonardY]

I'll throw this into the mix.
I have a friend who was remodeling his house. He's a very capable graphic designer and into Architecture. He started interviewing (when they would show up.) contractors. He had created a complete set of renderings of what he wanted. He had never done a remodel on before. His quotes were unbelievable. A lot of contractors didn't even bother.
I took a look at what he had "drawn" up. Pretty pictures. A lot of figuring out still. I suggested he go to an Architect maybe a Architect builder type firm. Which he found an Architect build firm.
And here are the reason why I suggested it.
Architects know design. Which is what he was speaking. In addition they know construction. He didn't. A lot of his designs didn't consider that.
Architects know codes. He didn't.
Architects know the requirements of approval boards. He wanted to raise the roof pitch and add dormers. They said it could be done but it would take a year or more to get approvals. BTW. They would be the ones submitting the plans and going to all the approval meetings.
They had contractors they worked with and he could either get his own or use theirs.
They also managed the entire project.
For him it was a better plan to go with someone like that.

 

[duneslider]

Curious....why do you think 98% of the houses in the US are built without an architect? The biggest single family builders....KB Homes, Pulte, Lennar, Toll Brothers, Horton etc who in some markets put out 75% or more of the new construction builds....do you really think they build all of those units without an architect ever involved??

Just because someone personally didn't talk with one on their house, doesn't mean that an architect wasn't involved when the plans were being created?

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Certainly possible this isn't true, just what I read on the interwebs seems legit, maybe the landscape has seriously changed since these articles have been written?

https://commonedge.org/architects-design-just-2-of-all-houses-why/#:~:text=On%20average%20about%20500%2C000%20new,10%2C000%20new%20houses%20per%20year.

https://buildingadvisor.com/your-team/architects/

 

[hector]

Sure, if we were all doing 2million dollar remodels it would probably be wise to use an architect. I wonder why 98% of the homes in America are designed and built without the use of an Architect? Maybe one of the architects that is "enjoying" this thread could chime in and help us understand why Architects seem "irrelevant" to 98% of the country? It seems like only the upper 2% of the people in America find value in an architect's services, or can afford it?

I think someone has already pointed it out but most homes in America are designed by an architect, it's just an architect was hired by a big builder doing a sub-division and that's why all the tract homes look the same or you end up with 100 homes in a neighborhood with 2-3 minor variation of the same style.

Just keep in mind that a "Modern Farmhouse" is the 2015+ equivalent of a split-ranch from 1950s, ranch homes in the 60s, and faux stucco or brick big foyer facade in the front siding in the back McMansions 80s-2000s etc. etc. It's the mass produced style of today and you will eventually drive through neighborhoods of hundreds of these identical white siding homes with 25 false gables and black window sashes and be like, remember when that was cool ??

If you are already working with a big builder and you are happy with an on-trend house then they have already eaten the cost of the architect and it makes sense to go with their plans and work with them to make adjustments.

Completely custom design is big $$$ and worth it only if you need/care for that level of personalization.

If you are in the unfortunate position of caring a lot about architecture but also not being wealthy , there are things like "LIFE Magazine Dream Home" where you can get big name architecture for peanuts, for example Robert A.M. Stern and Jacobsen architects over the years --> https://www.ramsa.com/projects/project/life-dream-house

 

[loganb]

Certainly possible this isn't true, just what I read on the interwebs seems legit, maybe the landscape has seriously changed since these articles have been written?

https://commonedge.org/architects-d...about 500,000 new,10,000 new houses per year.

https://buildingadvisor.com/your-team/architects/

I think it depends on your definition of "involved"

If for an architect to be involved they need to have been hired by the builder or owner and directly interacting with them as the client and customizing some/all of the house...then I agree that the overwhelming majority of houses built in the country don't have an architect involved.

My definition is a bit broader...as the plans that the builder are using didn't just appear out of thin air for most builds. Yes, a draftsman or designer could have done them from scratch, and yes in some areas of the US you could build a house with no plans. But the majority of the ones I've seen and businesses involved in this type of work have architectural involvement, its just well before they ever get to the end consumer.

From the big builder perspective, after the architect finished the plans they've often been "value engineered" so much to hit the cost per sq ft target they need that some architect's may not want to claim involvement(which I understand) but they were involved.

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[hector]

My definition is a bit broader...as the plans that the builder are using didn't just appear out of thin air for most builds...But the majority of the ones I've seen and businesses involved in this type of work have architectural involvement, its just well before they ever get to the end consumer.

From the big builder perspective, after the architect finished the plans they've often been "value engineered" so much to hit the cost per sq ft target they need that some architect's may not want to claim involvement(which I understand) but they were involved.

This is spot on.

 

[Dr Klaun]

As an architect, I also enjoyed reading this. It would be an afternoon of beers to even being to explain the "why" and the different variables. How you live your life within the walls you chose is just one intangible. Think about why many on this board customize things to their desires - the same goes for designing a house from scratch. This is the one chance you have to dig in and really think about how you live and want to live without the extras.

Also, to follow up on one of the comments above about the 98% of houses - many architects do NOT want to do residential design. It's can easily become marriage counselling, psychiatry, MMA refereeing and being a rodeo clown all rolled into one. The only things in many peoples lives that bring out more emotion is wedding and baby planning. Commercial design leaves all of that out. Public projects even more so with guaranteed contracts.

 

[duneslider]

Also, to follow up on one of the comments above about the 98% of houses - many architects do NOT want to do residential design.

Here, now we are getting someplace.

I don't have any hard data just making assumptions based on what I have seen and the names I see on the plans at "non-custom" homes I visit. Most home plans are NOT done by architects but by home designers, who probably have some sort of architectural backgrounds but don't appear to be architects or call themselves architects. The picture of the home that started this thread was designed by Mark Stewart Home Design in Seattle. I can't find anywhere he says he is an architect but he appears to be pretty well known in that area doing all sorts of homes from builder grade to high end custom?

From what I see in my area most builders, even high end custom, are using home designers and not architects for their plans. I have no idea how all builders work but when we talked to Toll Brothers in my area about a custom home it was a home designer and not an architect we would be working with. I suspect they have some markets where they do have architects but I don't know, I would assume they want to maximize THEIR profits and paying a home designer and not an architect keeps THEIR overhead lower and increases profits.

I work with architects on commercial projects all the time and none seem too interested in residential work. Probably for Dr. Klaun's reasons.

I would still venture to say that the vast majority of homes in America (98% maybe) were not designed by architects. I also bet 98% of architects won't want to lay any claim to 98% of the homes...

I don't think anyone here has tried to claim that Architects are worthless, not needed, or not cool. I just hold firm that you can get a perfectly satisfactory nice home built/designed in this country without using an architect.

Interior designers are becoming much much more relevant in the residential sector from what I see, maybe someday things will change and architects will begin to be more common in the residential sector.

 

[andyvh1959]

Lots of good input here. I have a bit different perspective. I live in Green Bay WI which for the most part is a very conservative "normal" home market for us normal folks. But being home town of the Packers and numerous highly successful people there are multitudes of homes in the $500,000 to multi millions of dollars.

My home, built in 1973, is a contemporary design of that era (Brady Bunch house inside). It was designed by a commercial architect, and built by a local contractor certainly more familiar with plain old ranch home construction of the 70's. Its a tri-level, living room at mid level between the ground level garage, den, side entrance, main foyer and the main upper level of kitchen, dining room, main bath and bedrooms. Very unique to say it mildly. It features a long walkway at the upper level connecting the bedrooms at the east end to the kitchen/dining at the west end, and the walkway overlooks the living room and two story main foyer.

Well he may have been an architect, but he had no common sense about "flow" through the house. ALL supplies for the kitchen has to go up the stairs through the living room. ALL the trash generated in the kitchen and main activity level of the house has to go down the stairs through the living room. The attached garage at ground level is under the bedrooms and main bath east end of the house. The 2nd bath with a shower is on the ground level slab area, at the side entrance (outside wall) the FURTHEST it could be from the water heater. In the winter that floor in the shower is under 40 degrees F.

SO many things, flow wise, use wise, mechanicals wise, in this house obviously prove the architect had little knowledge or regard for how the house is used. I've long felt the upper main level of the house should be flipped 180 degrees to put the kitchen dining room end of the house over the garage (easy way to use a dumb waiter). The bedrooms would then be over the heated west end of the lowest level. I recall from my residential drafting class in high school back in 74, our teacher said we had to design and draft a house. BUT it had to be logically livable and would be graded on originality AND flow/function. I got an A in that class and really enjoyed it.

 

[loganb]

Also, to follow up on one of the comments above about the 98% of houses - many architects do NOT want to do residential design. It's can easily become marriage counselling, psychiatry, MMA refereeing and being a rodeo clown all rolled into one. The only things in many peoples lives that bring out more emotion is wedding and baby planning. Commercial design leaves all of that out. Public projects even more so with guaranteed contracts.

This is spot on why I don't work on our residential side. Apartments, Senior Living, Hospitality etc is all financial as at the end of the day they're trying to make the "business" viable and it's not personal or emotional. Logic and rationality is often left behind at the same pace as the budget on a couples single family home build and it's not what I want to deal with.

If you are in the unfortunate position of caring a lot about architecture but also not being wealthy , there are things like "LIFE Magazine Dream Home" where you can get big name architecture for peanuts, for example Robert A.M. Stern and Jacobsen architects over the years --> https://www.ramsa.com/projects/project/life-dream-house

Great reference, I've listened to presentations from some of the team at RAMSA and we've provided materials to some of their projects and always love seeing pictures of their work. Frequently not my personal taste but I absolutely respect their work and love to go through project galleries

From what I see in my area most builders, even high end custom, are using home designers and not architects for their plans. I have no idea how all builders work but when we talked to Toll Brothers in my area about a custom home it was a home designer and not an architect we would be working with. I suspect they have some markets where they do have architects but I don't know, I would assume they want to maximize THEIR profits and paying a home designer and not an architect keeps THEIR overhead lower and increases profits.

I'll re-iterate my point about what defines being "involved" in the process. Toll actually has an inhouse architecture team that operates as a wholy owned subsidary(Toll Architecture), my understanding of them as I've only interacted loosely on some of the projects is much of their work is on their larger master plan communitities and multi-family work but they are involved in their residential side as well.

As to the designer you would've been working with, they help clients customize the already designed "structure" and choose all the interior items that don't require architects. Finishes, flooring, fixtures, wall coverings, appliances etc. They've likely got standard options for adjusment of walls/layouts in some cases for those commonly requested changes to the plans, but that home designer didn't draw and detail that plan from scratch....I can't say if an architect did the work on that particular plan but my understanding of their business model is that yes the vision and overall details were developed by a team whose got their design direction from an architect(or several).

Interior designers are becoming much much more relevant in the residential sector from what I see, maybe someday things will change and architects will begin to be more common in the residential sector.

Personally I hope so....but I'm married to an interior designer so it's a bit self-serving! Gotta keep me able to buy tools somehow

 

[Bigblockyeti]

I can't imagine that architects don't want to do residential work, I would guess it might have more to do with folks wanting them to work for a fraction of what other work brings and dealing with people who are just a PITA. I know many housing developments that have only one builder might have a handful of house plans to pick from, all designed by and architect and stamped by an engineer. If it's a one shot deal, I hope the architect is paid well, better yet, I would imagine, if they got royalties from every house that was built from a plan of their design?

 

[nc.detail]

As a long time residential designer, if the house pictured is any indication of your intent, I would recommend hiring an experienced architect/designer. The vast majority of drafters, especially those working at $.30/ft, will be in over their heads with that project.

Personally, I'm on the tail end of completing my modern farmhouse build (similar in spec to what you're looking for) and, while I've got a lot more gray hair now, the result is well worth it.

Let's see the pics!

 

[yeldogt]

Let's see the pics!

I would not build that house ... it will scream 2020 is 20 years. Sell it in 12

 

[yeldogt]

Not to sound like a .... But -- you don't build a custom home in a development. Even higher end products like Toll. You modify .... it's not "custom" .. it is customized.

My current project -- included a lighting designer who is an architect. It's had two different structural engineers. They always include an independent kitchen and bath person who is different than the people making all the cabinets. Who also have design people. Basically the kitchen person is a space planner. This project had a roof architect. I'm on the second landscape architect ... Fired the first.

Every detail is there in my plans -- nothing is stock. You don't pick from list ... it's designed based on the project. Doors, stairs ... windows ...trim ...even flooring. Everything -- including a good chunk of the lighting.

 

[John in OH]

Architects absolutely seal drawings (hence the term Architect of Record), the statement above is not correct. The legal ability to sell Architectural services is very similar to the the legal ability to perform Engineering services. One must be registered in any state you are either performing services or even proposing to perform services in. Each state has a licensing board that governs the rules for anything from the use of an electronic seal, to if Engineers can seal any discipline or just the discipline for which they passed the PE exam. No different than say a Medical License. To avoid details, lets say I work for one of the top 3 A&E firms in the world, and have held a PE license in most states on the East Coast.

And stories like, I used an Architect once, they were horrible, you don't want to use one is silly. That's like saying, I went to the dentist once, they were bad, so you should just go to the garage, grab the drill, and the soldering iron and fill your own teeth. There are horrible Architects, there are great ones, just like any other discipline.

Whether you should use an Architect or a Designer, depends upon the scope of work. To sketch something simple that doesn't require a permit, a designer should work out fine. Sealed drawings will require an Architect or an engineer if you are talking structural modifications, foundations, etc. The ability for an Architect to seal a foundation drawing, in a residential application will likely vary from state to state. My experience is that many jurisdictions for residential work, treat a stamp (seal) like a stamp, and don't worry about if it comes from an Architect or an Engineer.

+++1

 

[911TES]

Not much to add since I haven’t built my dream house yet and I’m running out of daylight ��.
My perception is that you would hire an architect or drafted up-to-date on all the latest materials and technology. My brother is a building contractor and it’s exhausting to keep-up with the latest technology.
In my mind, the top architect would be 100% up-to-date.

 

[gearhead1]

We used this place to design our plans. https://frazierhomedesign.com/about/
Wife and I started with graph paper and sketched out what we wanted first. The designer/drafter had the plans engineered by a civil engineering firm.

Do you absolutely have to hire a trained architect, no, but you can. The plans will have to have structural engineer approval. In our case, the designer/drafter took care of that.

I have 2 different friends that are architectural draftsman - work for an architect and both moonlight for individuals.

 

[meathooker]

I had this dilemma a couple years ago.

I work in construction and am a licensed PE. We deal with architects on a daily basis. Over the years I became buddies with the principal of a local architect firm as we hire them on design build projects. When it came time to design the house we met up with him and went through our ideas. He gave us a few ideas but said he didn’t think it was worth it to have him do it. He was really cool about it but basically said he is normally $3/ft. A buddy deal would be $2/ft. Also he’s been in business for 25 years and only designed 8-10 houses and they were all million dollar homes. Ours was not anything close to that fancy.

We ended up going with a home designer. They’re $0.8/ft. They design hundreds of homes per year and had a lot of good ideas. Being in construction I think I had a pretty good handle on what I wanted so that helped as well. But being an engineer I want everything square, basic, and “logical”. The designer helped us make the home look nicer than I would have designed myself.

It went well and we are happy with the results with out the added cost of an architect.

 

[hector]

Also, to follow up on one of the comments above about the 98% of houses - many architects do NOT want to do residential design. ... Commercial design leaves all of that out. Public projects even more so with guaranteed contracts.

In the hypothetical case of an architect who is contracted by Toll Brothers to design a new modern farmhouse model that will be built in the 1000s across 20 states, is this still "residential" work or commercial?

I can completely understand not wanting to work directly with homeowners. I would not want work with myself.

 

[FordTruckWench]

Here, now we are getting someplace.
I would still venture to say that the vast majority of homes in America (98% maybe) were not designed by architects. I also bet 98% of architects won't want to lay any claim to 98% of the homes...

I'd say that 90% of the homes in the subdivision where I lived as a pre-teen/teen did not have an architect involved at all: In the late '60's some developer put in the streets and utilities, put up a smattering of architect designed model homes, ... and went bust. Local independent builders acquired the empty parcels and filled out the area in the '70's and into the '80's. Each builder had their standard house design.

Neighboring streets had even less architect involvement: It doesn't take an architect to come up with a 3 bed 2 bath rectangle with a garage on the end and a 4:12 roof.

 

[bczygan]

Curious on suggestions if an architect is worth the extra cost over a drafter.

We're under contract on land and starting to thumb through house designs with our builder. We've reached out to a couple architects and our realtor referred us to the drafter she used for their custom home.

Drafter wants $0.30 sqft vs ~$2 a sq ft from the few architects we've talked to.

In terms of the house, our current plans are nothing crazy and I feel we can cobble together a plan by tweaking an existing one from the hundreds of available plans on line. Modern Farmhouse (<4k sq ft), pool, 3 car attached, 1k sq ft detached for added context.

What say you, GJ?

PFA
M-4514-WC-FRONT-VIEW by Larry Bishop, on Flickr

It all depends on what you want.

On one end, you can just find a plan in a plan book that you like and plop it down on your lot.

On the other end, you can have a true work of art designed by a talented person who will transform your life.

Or anything in between. It can be nondescript standard boxes or a 3 dimensional sculpture you experience every day in wondrous ways.

Having designed homes myself, I would never go for the plan method.

In developing a site you are going to live on, you should consider all the existing conditions. Existing terrain, utility easements, setbacks, sight-lines, adjoining buildings, trees, sun and wind directions, drainage, etc. etc.

Then you need to accommodate the desired uses in all their complexities.

All the while being constrained by zoning and building codes.

To do this in inventive ways using available materials to create a timeless solution is what Architects do.

Judge carefully what you desire and then shop for the person who can best deliver that.

Like any other relationship, a good match between designer and client will give a better result.

Bill

 

[yeldogt]

I'd say that 90% of the homes in the subdivision where I lived as a pre-teen/teen did not have an architect involved at all: In the late '60's some developer put in the streets and utilities, put up a smattering of architect designed model homes, ... and went bust. Local independent builders acquired the empty parcels and filled out the area in the '70's and into the '80's. Each builder had their standard house design.

Neighboring streets had even less architect involvement: It doesn't take an architect to come up with a 3 bed 2 bath rectangle with a garage on the end and a 4:12 roof.

Most builders buy the designs .. they buy based on cost to build. larger builders may have someone in house to make adjustments. Builders build based on known costs ..... change orders throw in an unknown. You pay. Who did the design and layout is really not important ...

In a development you are picking within a group of possibilities

 

[yeldogt]

I had this dilemma a couple years ago.

I work in construction and am a licensed PE. We deal with architects on a daily basis. Over the years I became buddies with the principal of a local architect firm as we hire them on design build projects. When it came time to design the house we met up with him and went through our ideas. He gave us a few ideas but said he didn’t think it was worth it to have him do it. He was really cool about it but basically said he is normally $3/ft. A buddy deal would be $2/ft. Also he’s been in business for 25 years and only designed 8-10 houses and they were all million dollar homes. Ours was not anything close to that fancy.

We ended up going with a home designer. They’re $0.8/ft. They design hundreds of homes per year and had a lot of good ideas. Being in construction I think I had a pretty good handle on what I wanted so that helped as well. But being an engineer I want everything square, basic, and “logical”. The designer helped us make the home look nicer than I would have designed myself.

It went well and we are happy with the results with out the added cost of an architect.

A good professional is honest upfront about coats and value. If someone shows up with an outside plan -- what is the architect adding ? Also -- you know that most plans have a degree of "value engineering" in them and when you make changes ... the structure starts to work against you on cost.

It's the same as finding a picture and wanting to build that design ... what the architect doing.

I had a strange thing a few years ago. A family member had a fire (lightning) .... the house was in a development (700k). The way it was constructed -- it had to be demolished as critical parts of the interlocking structure had been damaged. This is where it gets strange. The builder would not give us the plans to build the same house back --- the foundation was fine. The insurance company tried to buy them -- finally they agreed to a crazy number. In the end it was cheaper to pull the foundation down and start over with a stock design. The cost to build on the old would have needed an all new design. Getting a pro to do that was too much.

In the end the Insurance company gave them more money if they would build a stock design that a local builder was doing. The original builder being a larger production builder was not interested in doing the house.

The house is in a development -- there was no return in building anything special or unique ... The local builder who agreed had the same list of possible "upgrades" that he was using in the development he was building. It's a nice house .... Bland -- but nice. The builder got 40k direct from the Insurance company above the agreed price.

 

[Tduby]

I always find these sorts of threads interesting. I would venture the vast majority of the users of this forum (Garage Journal) are pretty well entrenched in the DIY lifestyle. I can talk all day about building cars in my badass garage, burning metal together looking like perfect stacks of dimes, building amazing works of art with wood, all while not being an ASE Master mechanic, or a certified welder, or a member of the carpenters union and its all good but someone mentions they might attempt a home design without an architect and its obviously going to look like **** and is a terrible idea because ONLY an architect can do a good job. Now, don't get me wrong, I love architects just like I love master mechanics, certified welders, and Union Carpenters but at the end of the day if a regular Joe can learn to turn a wrench pretty good, or lay a nice bead joining a couple pieces of steel together, or pull art out of rough timbers why can't a guy do a good job designing his own home?

Sure, if we were all doing 2million dollar remodels it would probably be wise to use an architect. I wonder why 98% of the homes in America are designed and built without the use of an Architect? Maybe one of the architects that is "enjoying" this thread could chime in and help us understand why Architects seem "irrelevant" to 98% of the country? It seems like only the upper 2% of the people in America find value in an architect's services, or can afford it?

For goodness sakes, there are TV shows about how awesome houses made of shipping containers are, and tiny houses on trailers! Yet how dare middle America live in a poorly designed fairly good looking house drawn by a lowly drafter!

Anyway, maybe a little passive aggressive but really, why should the other 98% of the country be interested in paying an architect? Emoji added to show I'm not a hater. I really am curious what happened to the profession that created such a huge disconnect between the profession and the American people? Why does my builder want to pay me to draw his houses and not an architect?

I tend to agree with you simple houses aren’t complicated and don’t require an architect. But the OP probably should hire one his plan doesn’t look straight forward or simple. My house had 6 corners the big changes I wanted made were move the garage door to a different side and extend it 6’ and change the porch to an enclosed 3 season room.

 

[Apeatwo]

I dunno. Around here, you can build a house off a napkin drawing (literally). I work with a GC who has a degree in architecture and is an excellent draftsman, but the actual engineering of the house in terms of trusses, joists, etc - that all goes off to a structural engineer via the suppliers who want to sell trusses, joists, etc.

This is exactly the way it works where I'm from too.

 

[Apeatwo]

Here's another thing to consider. Registered architects are not required in residential design. Individuals with degrees in architecture that want to work strictly in residential design will not go through the additional effort of sitting for the ARE (registration exam/s) for professional registration and legal registration as "Architect". As a result, they are classified as "designers" yet they have the education and experience of residential architects. Whether its $500k or $5m custom home build, stamping a set seems to be a personal/professional preference.

Commercial/assembly projects where architects are required, if we're being honest, pay a whole lot more without the personal headaches mentioned earlier.

 

[yeldogt]

This is exactly the way it works where I'm from too.

Someone with the proper degree -- qualifications has to sign off. There is nothing different where I am either. It's all about the final product. Architects are for design ....

As you go up the pecking order w/ architects -- it's more and more vision. IMO -- its often more important when you are doing a big renovation to have an architect who knows the type of project you are working on. The architect is the vision ...someone else does the figuring out.

When I was doing my glass and steel house on a river -- the first big meeting we had with the architect he had a structure guy and a space planner there. It was a small house for weekend use. As the architect discussed the project and his ideas -- the structure guy weighed in on what was required and the cost. The space planer chimed in if they felt it was a good space for use. It ended up being a glass/steel and engineered beam house. Steel was just too expensive -- so the house changed as we worked with various building materials.

 

[meathooker]

When I was doing my glass and steel house on a river -- the first big meeting we had with the architect he had a structure guy and a space planner there. It was a small house for weekend use. As the architect discussed the project and his ideas -- the structure guy weighed in on what was required and the cost. The space planer chimed in if they felt it was a good space for use. It ended up being a glass/steel and engineered beam house. Steel was just too expensive -- so the house changed as we worked with various building materials.

Sounds cool. Pics?

 

[Apeatwo]

Someone with the proper degree -- qualifications has to sign off. There is nothing different where I am either. It's all about the final product. Architects are for design ....

As you go up the pecking order w/ architects -- it's more and more vision. IMO -- its often more important when you are doing a big renovation to have an architect who knows the type of project you are working on. The architect is the vision ...someone else does the figuring out.

When I was doing my glass and steel house on a river -- the first big meeting we had with the architect he had a structure guy and a space planner there. It was a small house for weekend use. As the architect discussed the project and his ideas -- the structure guy weighed in on what was required and the cost. The space planer chimed in if they felt it was a good space for use. It ended up being a glass/steel and engineered beam house. Steel was just too expensive -- so the house changed as we worked with various building materials.

Absolutely someone has to sign off, and more times than not in residential construction its the engineered wood manufacturers engineer that reviews the plans and designs/certifies floor/roof systems. Its not about the degree though, its about the registration. In my initial design consultations I make my clients aware that as long as we can stay away from structural metal they, most often, will not require a separate structural set other than that provided by the wood manufacturers.

Architects by definition can do it all but like in any field some are better than others. One of my architects insisted on doing his own structural design but that is an old way of thinking. For me, its always obvious to me when a builder used an architect/designer or a drafter, I've seen some hideous yet very expensive homes.

 

[Apeatwo]

Let's see the pics!

Still a work in progress but here she is,,,,,,,,

View media item 107744
3500 conditioned sf
close to 1000 sf 3 car garage, 800 sf workshop above, detached garage planned for later
6000 sf under roof

I had designed another home but when we got our particular lot, 5 acres surrounded by farmland, I knew I needed to change things up. The idea was a timeless farmhouse that looks like it could have been here for decades by taking cues from 100+ yr old farmhouses nearby.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=420096&highlight=modern+farmhouse

 

[Cypress]

I always find these sorts of threads interesting. I would venture the vast majority of the users of this forum (Garage Journal) are pretty well entrenched in the DIY lifestyle. I can talk all day about building cars in my badass garage, burning metal together looking like perfect stacks of dimes, building amazing works of art with wood, all while not being an ASE Master mechanic, or a certified welder, or a member of the carpenters union and its all good but someone mentions they might attempt a home design without an architect and its obviously going to look like **** and is a terrible idea because ONLY an architect can do a good job. Now, don't get me wrong, I love architects just like I love master mechanics, certified welders, and Union Carpenters but at the end of the day if a regular Joe can learn to turn a wrench pretty good, or lay a nice bead joining a couple pieces of steel together, or pull art out of rough timbers why can't a guy do a good job designing his own home?

Sure, if we were all doing 2million dollar remodels it would probably be wise to use an architect. I wonder why 98% of the homes in America are designed and built without the use of an Architect? Maybe one of the architects that is "enjoying" this thread could chime in and help us understand why Architects seem "irrelevant" to 98% of the country? It seems like only the upper 2% of the people in America find value in an architect's services, or can afford it?

For goodness sakes, there are TV shows about how awesome houses made of shipping containers are, and tiny houses on trailers! Yet how dare middle America live in a poorly designed fairly good looking house drawn by a lowly drafter!

Anyway, maybe a little passive aggressive but really, why should the other 98% of the country be interested in paying an architect? Emoji added to show I'm not a hater. I really am curious what happened to the profession that created such a huge disconnect between the profession and the American people? Why does my builder want to pay me to draw his houses and not an architect?

I think you're looking into my post a bit too deeply.

If you want the experience and final product that an architect will give you, hire one. If you want to save cost and go another route, go for it.

In terms of my experience in residential, there are two types of homes that I work on, which I'll explain briefly below.

1. High end custom residential. This encompasses a full set of construction documents and as the Architect, I will work with the home owner, SE, CE, Interior Designer, Landscape Architect, MEP Engineer and Contractor very closely coordinating all details, finishes, interior plans, windows, doors, ceiling heights, building massing, exterior materials etc into a cohesive set of documents that outline exactly what the contractor is to build and exactly what the home owner wants. We will also provide a thorough design schedule (that includes all necessary Permit / DRB / PNZ submittal packages) and do extensive construction administration through the completion of construction to make sure every detail is built to our specifications. This is for your 2 million + dollar home and you get what you pay for (in most cases).

2. Builders Set / Design Build. This encompasses a very basic set of documents that contains floor plans, roof plans, elevations, RCP's and some building sections. We will also include a few sheets of assembly details that will get the home through Permit review / DRB / PNZ and meet all regulations / codes for your specific area. The coordination with sub consultants is minimal (cost savings) and usually left up to the builder to field verify alot of the installation. This is for your typical suburban type home done on a budget. There is nothing wrong with this option and we see it alot out in my area where land costs are mind boggling.

Both processes normally end up with a happy client but the latter certainly carries a bit more risk / potential for things to go wrong down the road. Just my 2 cents.

Again, you don't need an architect. You can certainly go purchase pre designed plans off the internet and hire a contractor to build it for you but you will certainly lose some expertise / quality /overall vision when it comes to coordinating all of the design consultants listed above within a well thought out design, which, imo really help tie the plans into the existing site, climate zone, surrounding architectural character etc and produce a much more thorough, comprehensive end product for the client. I hope this provides a bit of insight as to why an Architect might be relevant to some projects.

I'll also add (at least in my area), the Architect is the lowest paid person in the job trailer!

Paul

 

[bczygan]

In our area, usually no professional is required for residential permits, until a certain square footage.

Bill

 

[raffaelli]

I am an owner of an architectural firm. We have not run into a situation where signed and sealed drawings were not required. My office is full of both Architects and Drafters. The architects guide the design according to the clients program. The Architect ensure the building is safe, sometimes with the help of structural engineer and geotechnical engineer. The drafter puts all of this on paper.

Find the right architect, you will be light years ahead.

 

[Bigblockyeti]

I am an owner of an architectural firm. We have not run into a situation where signed and sealed drawings were not required. My office is full of both Architects and Drafters. The architects guide the design according to the clients program. The Architect ensure the building is safe, sometimes with the help of structural engineer and geotechnical engineer. The drafter puts all of this on paper.

Find the right architect, you will be light years ahead.

Those who have approached you want your services, those who do not haven't approached you, thus your not having a situation where signed and sealed drawings were not required.

 

[raffaelli]

Those who have approached you want your services, those who do not haven't approached you, thus your not having a situation where signed and sealed drawings were not required.

Your point is well taken, however it is not totally accurate.

 

[Chris705]

Location, location, location..... different states (sometimes jurisdictions), different requirements in terms of stamped & signed plans for permits. We talk about this all the time for our garage builds, no different for houses.

 

[ssdave]

Those who have approached you want your services, those who do not haven't approached you, thus your not having a situation where signed and sealed drawings were not required.

Your point is well taken, however it is not totally accurate.

Depends on where you work. Signed and sealed drawings are a product of laws and regulatory requirements, and those change with location.

Near where I live, there are counties that do not require any plans or building permits. An electrical and plumbing inspection is required by the state, as is a septic system inspection by the State health department.

Many, many jurisdictions do not require stamped drawings for single family residences. In the last state I worked in, I was required to stamp plans for houses I was building, although some simple house did not require that. Where I live now, no stamp was required for anything non-commercial. I turned in and had approved plans with no design professional designated in any way on them.